I would like the group to address the burning question: What reason/s justify the fact that the spinnaker halyard on a Bergstrom-rigged boat(Legend series)attaches at just above the headstay as opposed to at the mast-head? It occurs to me that a larger sail might be employed (providing more power)if the halyard were to exit the mast at the mast-head. If you wish to speculate, we'd all appreciate you mentioning it. Hearing from those who are sure of their knowledge would be really appreciated. Thanks in advance! Ron s/y Best Revenge h40.5.
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No real difference
You would get a very modest increase in sail area. With a chute, that can be made up simply by cutting it a bit fuller anyway. What REALLY matters is the length of the spin pole, which, of course, legally cannot be longer than the J dimension. I suspect that the exit box on the B&R rig is placed where it is simply for convenience. It won't affect performance. MC
You would get a very modest increase in sail area. With a chute, that can be made up simply by cutting it a bit fuller anyway. What REALLY matters is the length of the spin pole, which, of course, legally cannot be longer than the J dimension. I suspect that the exit box on the B&R rig is placed where it is simply for convenience. It won't affect performance. MC
Couple of things
First off I don't believe the Legend series fractionally rigged Hunters are Bergstrom rigs. They are just regular fractional rigs with lowers, intermediates, uppers, and a backstay. That's the same type of rig you might see on a J-Boat, Beneteau First Series, and almost every other fractional rig boat built in the last 20 years. Nothing unique at all. Second point. You could fly a masthead spinnaker off a fractional rig, but... Spinnakers put a lot of load on a rig both in the fore and aft direction and in the side to side direction (particularly when reaching). The backstay opposes the fore and aft forces fine, but what would support the side loads. On a masthead rig the upper shrouds bear this load, on a fractional rig w/ fractional spinnaker the uppers also bear this load. A masthead spin on a fractional rig is partially unsupported. Might work in 5 knots, but in 15 knots you might just break the tip off. Third point. Many of the Legend fractional rigs have a tapered tip. It is very difficult to get a main halyard, spinnaker halyard, VHF antenna, anchor light, and wind instrument through such a small space. There just isn't the room. You could run an external spinnaker halyard however if you don't mind that sort of thing. Yes you could get more sail area if you had a masthead spinnaker. However, put a Legend Series Hunter next to any of its common competitors of the same size. You'll find the Hunter rig is much taller. Many of the others (Beneteau Oceanis, Catalina) have shorter rigs. Translation: The spinnaker on a Legend is slightly smaller that on other boats, but the mainsail is bigger. It all evens out.
First off I don't believe the Legend series fractionally rigged Hunters are Bergstrom rigs. They are just regular fractional rigs with lowers, intermediates, uppers, and a backstay. That's the same type of rig you might see on a J-Boat, Beneteau First Series, and almost every other fractional rig boat built in the last 20 years. Nothing unique at all. Second point. You could fly a masthead spinnaker off a fractional rig, but... Spinnakers put a lot of load on a rig both in the fore and aft direction and in the side to side direction (particularly when reaching). The backstay opposes the fore and aft forces fine, but what would support the side loads. On a masthead rig the upper shrouds bear this load, on a fractional rig w/ fractional spinnaker the uppers also bear this load. A masthead spin on a fractional rig is partially unsupported. Might work in 5 knots, but in 15 knots you might just break the tip off. Third point. Many of the Legend fractional rigs have a tapered tip. It is very difficult to get a main halyard, spinnaker halyard, VHF antenna, anchor light, and wind instrument through such a small space. There just isn't the room. You could run an external spinnaker halyard however if you don't mind that sort of thing. Yes you could get more sail area if you had a masthead spinnaker. However, put a Legend Series Hunter next to any of its common competitors of the same size. You'll find the Hunter rig is much taller. Many of the others (Beneteau Oceanis, Catalina) have shorter rigs. Translation: The spinnaker on a Legend is slightly smaller that on other boats, but the mainsail is bigger. It all evens out.
it's a fractional rigging spin..
Sinced there is no support ( backstay, or other) on this rig configuration at masthead level , and the mast is tapered up there, a masthead spinaker will be unsafe . The mainsail being very big has no positive influence whatsoever, since with B&R rig it is not effective on running or broad reaching, and in higher wind even unsafe due to induced broaching ( you cannot let the sail square , due to 120 degree angled back spreaders..) On my 29.5 I use both spinaker and assymetric spinaker with reefed main , unless wind(relative) less than 6-7 kts . From speed related reasons , masthead or fractional rigged spinaker has little influance.
Sinced there is no support ( backstay, or other) on this rig configuration at masthead level , and the mast is tapered up there, a masthead spinaker will be unsafe . The mainsail being very big has no positive influence whatsoever, since with B&R rig it is not effective on running or broad reaching, and in higher wind even unsafe due to induced broaching ( you cannot let the sail square , due to 120 degree angled back spreaders..) On my 29.5 I use both spinaker and assymetric spinaker with reefed main , unless wind(relative) less than 6-7 kts . From speed related reasons , masthead or fractional rigged spinaker has little influance.
J over I
MC's point about the J dimension being more critical than the I dimension is well taken. However, the one area where the height of the spinnaker halyard sheave might make a difference is in light air, since it is not unusual in light winds to have twice as much windspeed at an altitude of 65 feet than at water level. This is why the current crop of IACC boats (America's Cup), although fraction-rigged, have masthead chutes. (Not to mention, ahem, backstays.) I also agree with Michael that if you want more power, the most cost-effective way to get it is to have a fuller spinnaker built. Safest as well.
MC's point about the J dimension being more critical than the I dimension is well taken. However, the one area where the height of the spinnaker halyard sheave might make a difference is in light air, since it is not unusual in light winds to have twice as much windspeed at an altitude of 65 feet than at water level. This is why the current crop of IACC boats (America's Cup), although fraction-rigged, have masthead chutes. (Not to mention, ahem, backstays.) I also agree with Michael that if you want more power, the most cost-effective way to get it is to have a fuller spinnaker built. Safest as well.
Spinnaker Halyard fix
Ron, I thought about the same thing when I began having a problem with the spinnaker halyard. When flying the gennaker (cruising chute with ATN sock), the halyard would sometimes catch on the anti-wrap at the top of the headstay since the TINY spinnaker halyard block was so close to it. On the H40.5 it is part of the headstay attachment to the mast. That causes the anti-wrap to turn on the stay that caused chaffing on the jib halyard. Plus the sheave kept falling apart. I fly the gennaker whenever I can. See the Photo Forum. Since I had to do something I thought about running the spinnaker halyard from the masthead. The 40.5 Bergstrom-rig (Legend series) incorporates a split backstay with sweptback spreaders and the single lower, intermediate and upper shrouds connected to the same chainplate. (The similar BandR rig has no backstay and the spreaders are more sweptback with diamond rigged shrouds. Any way, on a fractional rig the uppers only go to the headstay. Even though there is a backstay I did not feel there was enough support for any side loading. With such a tall rig, my gennaker is still as big as most 40-foot masthead boats. It can really load up and move Yaga at hull speed in 10 knots of wind. I would not want it any larger. Moving it up should only allow the sail to be made taller, not wider. I already have mine. (I actually bought it from North Sails before I closed on the boat) It would also effect the boat’s rating. The only benefit would be in light air to get the sail higher but then I would have this extra spinnaker halyard to do something with. I already take my halyard to the forward bail on the bow anchor roller. If you take it to the bow rails in tends to roll up in the Genoa. NOT good! My solution to the block problem was to remove the stock block completely, install a one-foot long 1” T-track just above the headstay and put a spring loaded sheet lead block on the track. It makes it easy to replace and adjust its height. Works great. I suggest this mod for any fractional boat with the Z-Spar stock spinnaker block. It was not beefy enough and tended to foul at the headstay attachment. Also I run the foreguy through a block on the bail of the anchor roller and lead it down the starboard side to the cockpit. I ONCE overloaded the sail and put Yaga’s toerail in the water so I know the anchor bail can handle the load. When that happens, try to steer down wind to unload the sail. If you head up even a little you better be holding on to something! Debbie and I fly gennaker all the time and would be happy to share our experiences any time on HOW.
Ron, I thought about the same thing when I began having a problem with the spinnaker halyard. When flying the gennaker (cruising chute with ATN sock), the halyard would sometimes catch on the anti-wrap at the top of the headstay since the TINY spinnaker halyard block was so close to it. On the H40.5 it is part of the headstay attachment to the mast. That causes the anti-wrap to turn on the stay that caused chaffing on the jib halyard. Plus the sheave kept falling apart. I fly the gennaker whenever I can. See the Photo Forum. Since I had to do something I thought about running the spinnaker halyard from the masthead. The 40.5 Bergstrom-rig (Legend series) incorporates a split backstay with sweptback spreaders and the single lower, intermediate and upper shrouds connected to the same chainplate. (The similar BandR rig has no backstay and the spreaders are more sweptback with diamond rigged shrouds. Any way, on a fractional rig the uppers only go to the headstay. Even though there is a backstay I did not feel there was enough support for any side loading. With such a tall rig, my gennaker is still as big as most 40-foot masthead boats. It can really load up and move Yaga at hull speed in 10 knots of wind. I would not want it any larger. Moving it up should only allow the sail to be made taller, not wider. I already have mine. (I actually bought it from North Sails before I closed on the boat) It would also effect the boat’s rating. The only benefit would be in light air to get the sail higher but then I would have this extra spinnaker halyard to do something with. I already take my halyard to the forward bail on the bow anchor roller. If you take it to the bow rails in tends to roll up in the Genoa. NOT good! My solution to the block problem was to remove the stock block completely, install a one-foot long 1” T-track just above the headstay and put a spring loaded sheet lead block on the track. It makes it easy to replace and adjust its height. Works great. I suggest this mod for any fractional boat with the Z-Spar stock spinnaker block. It was not beefy enough and tended to foul at the headstay attachment. Also I run the foreguy through a block on the bail of the anchor roller and lead it down the starboard side to the cockpit. I ONCE overloaded the sail and put Yaga’s toerail in the water so I know the anchor bail can handle the load. When that happens, try to steer down wind to unload the sail. If you head up even a little you better be holding on to something! Debbie and I fly gennaker all the time and would be happy to share our experiences any time on HOW.
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