Spinnaker Pole to Wing out Genoa

[Terry Luck]

I am a brand new sailor. I have a spinnaker pole and a genoa and would like to learn how to wing the genoa out with the pole for downwind sailing on my Seafarer 26. Ive watched youtube videos but they aren't the best. Any suggestions on how to learn to do this safely?
Thanks
Terry

 

[Ron20324]

buy a book on downwind sailing?

 

[jssailem]

1. Take boat out onto water
2. Point boat in direction with wind on the stern.
3. Let main out on one side of boat.
4. Pull fore sail (jib or Genoa) onto opposite side.
5. You are sailing wing & wing.
6. Practice in moderate wind conditions
7. Steer boat back and forth to get hang of boat balance.
8. Be aware if you turn to much towards the side the main is on you will have the boom swing wildly to the opposite side - an uncontrolled gybe.
9. This is a dangerous event. Caution is advised. Control sail with main sheet. Pull sheet in. As wind changes thru the stern, let sheet out so main is on the opposite side.
10. Pull fore sail to the side main sail was on before course change.

Once you can manage the wing & wing you can add the pole to stabilize the sail in light or moderate winds when the sail can flop around in disturbed sea. I like to attach pole with fore sail behind main. Then pull fore sail to wing position.

Manage your course and the wind direction.

Sailing downwind can be an enjoyable activity.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I am a brand new sailor. I have a spinnaker pole and a genoa and would like to learn how to wing the genoa out with the pole for downwind sailing on my Seafarer 26. Ive watched youtube videos but they aren't the best. Any suggestions on how to learn to do this safely?
Thanks
Terry

First, this is at least a two person operation for beginners. Someone has to steer while the other hooks up the genoa to the whisker pole on the foredeck. The helm falls off from a broad reach until the genoa collapses (blocked by the mainsail). It will flop and jerk some. At this point the whisker pole may already be attached to the mast ring on the side to be deployed with its topping lift attached. Clip the pole onto the weather sheet behind the bowline knot (usually not inside of it but some people do), and then have the helmsman start trimming while you make sure the genoa deploys to the windward side of the boat inside the forestay (i.e., not around it). Helm may need to fall off a bit more but do not sail by the lee. If the genny is large, you'll have to telescope out the whisker pole until it fully, or nearly so, puts the clew of the genny out as far as it can go on the windward side. You then quickly return to the cockpit and trim until the pole is nearly to the shrouds, and then make other adjustments to the height of the pole. In strong air the uplift of the sail and tension on the sheet will keep the pole near the clew. However, in light air it might want to slide back or down away from the clew.

To recover have the helm person ease the sheet while foredeck crew collapses the pole so everything goes to the stem/ bow pulpit. Unclip the jaw, have the helm trim one sheet or the other, depending on whether or not you intend to gybe the boom, or head up on present tack. Remove the topping lift, the pole from the mast ring, and secure it to the deck.

After writing the above, I see now you mentioned a spinnaker pole. Normally, a spinnaker pole is too short to pole a genoa all the way out. Need a telescoping whisker pole for that.

 

[markwbird]

First you need two people. Too difficult to go wing on wing by yourself. Easiest way to do it is to roll up the jib, head down wind, let the boom out all the way to whatever side you are going to, attach the whisker pole to the mast ring and clew while the jib is rolled up and then unfurl the jib with the pole already up. Do the opposite to take it down. The wind should be behind and just slightly to the opposite side of whatever side the main is on. In other words, if the boom is to starboard the wind should be behind and slightly to port.

 

[wristwister]

Using a whisker pole or spinnaker pole to hold the genny out, while also using a preventer to hold the boom in place on the opposite side, is a great way to do long downwind runs. It gives you more directional latitude and reduces the risk of the dreaded and dangerous "flying jibe". But as mentioned, this involves much rigging and adjustment and extra hands on the boat. It's also a pain to set up and take down, so probably too much hassle for short down wind runs.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

My extra hand aboard is a tiller pilot. Solves a LOT of problems )

 

[Jackdaw]

Wow, did I forget what this was like? 90% of the replies actually use the word 'dangerous'. Is it really?

 

[Gunni]

Well, a pickup truck traveling 100 mph down a straight highway may seem safe enough...until you need to swerve or reach a turn. Downwind sailing can impart a similar sense of false ease. Lock a pole off on the mast and things can get downright spectacular when you backwind that Genoa!

 

[Joe]

The key to wing on wing is controlling the pole. That means you should have a topping lift and a foreguy. With the top, fore and sheet you have triangular control of the pole.... while the inboard is secured to the mast. While this sounds complicated, the pole can be rigged ahead of time, kept on deck with the topping lift slacked or unclipped and kept near the mast, clear of the upwind gear. When it's time to deploy, your foredeck crew can control the pole while another hoists it with the topping lift... they snap the pole onto the sheet first, then the mast, then use the foreguy to set the position.
If you don't support the pole with the topping lift and fore guy the sail will be much more stressful to handle.....
For more security you can apply a preventer to the boom...

That said... there are different forces that a spinnaker pole is designed to accommodate from those that a whisker pole addresses... So.. obviously it is not recommend to use the spin pole as a whisker pole in challenging conditions... or vice versa.

 

[Kings Gambit]

If you have > 15 kt and even 3-ft or + seas on the quarter, where the boat is yawing quite a bit, and you have to go for'ward to wrestle a big genoa over to the windward side and get it poled out; yeah-- there might be some additional "danger" there. "Danger" from an accidental jibe that pitches you into drink, or from a unwieldy pole that butts you in the face while trying to clip or unclip it at the mast, etc. Just have to be careful, as always; perhaps extra careful. Especially if you have one of those goofy button-lock whisker poles; could lose a finger tip there if not extra careful! I remember having to take in one of those poles at night, in 30-kt (cold front), to prepare to gybe the Jenneau 32 around the leeward mark during the Kahlua Cup (off Clearwater, FL) in 1993. No auto pilot for me in that kind of s--t! Trusted friend only!!

 

[joker460]

I am a brand new sailor. I have a spinnaker pole and a genoa and would like to learn how to wing the genoa out with the pole for downwind sailing on my Seafarer 26. Ive watched youtube videos but they aren't the best. Any suggestions on how to learn to do this safely?
Thanks
Terry

A video is worth a few words.
What happens using a spinnaker pole on a Genoa:

Using a whisker pole on a Genoa:

 

[Jackdaw]

Well, a pickup truck traveling 100 mph down a straight highway may seem safe enough...until you need to swerve or reach a turn. Downwind sailing can impart a similar sense of false ease. Lock a pole off on the mast and things can get downright spectacular when you backwind that Genoa!

Well inherent my comment was the notion that you would actually do it correctly. If you don't all bets are off. Driving at 30mph is dangerous if you can't stay on the road.

In that sense I would have figured it's a pretty safe move in the breeze that most cruisers do it.

I can think of sailing maneuvers or modes that I would actually call dangerous. That's just not one of them.

 

[Brian S]

Wow, reading these posts, I'm amazed that I can do what I do! To paraphrase Jackdaw, "Dangerous? Really?" Admittedly, I have a 20' boat, a tiller clutch, and a Forespar adjustable whisker pole which I set sailing solo all the time. With my stub keel/centerboard combo with the board up, and in light wind, I have caught and passed a Beneteau First 235 fin keel when I had the jib poled out. He did not had his jib poled, and we were DDW in light wind about 5-8 knots. (Then we turned around and he crushed me upwind.)

 

[Brian S]

Oh, my one thought is that a spinnaker pole might be shorter and heavier than one would want to pole out the jib. I believe that spin poles are generally class and/or PHRF limited to 1x J length, and whisker poles more like 1.5x J. Still, preventing the jib from collapsing is the primary goal. Sometimes I sail wing on wing without the pole, trying to hold the jib sheet far enough out to keep it drawing. This is far easier to do with a bit more wind, and even better for crew to do, since they can sit well forward and hold the sheet out farther to the side than I can do while still holding the tiller.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I'm happy for this post as I will probably learn something. I've poled-out the genoa to leeward, on the same side as the main, then gybed the main. In this case, I suppose I am establishing the point of sail only after establishing wing on wing position. I have not had any problem controlling the main sail while performing the gybe. I've not tried poling-out the genoa to the windward side of the run. I'll have to practice that maneuver.
It leaves me wondering which actually performs better, mainsail on the windward side of the run, or genoa on the windward side. If the mainsail is on the lee and the genoa is to windward, the whisker pole and genoa are actually functioning as a spinnaker, no? What am I missing? I only consider wing on wing to be used when nearly ddw. The genoa is far larger in area than the main sail, so I would look for the most efficiency from the genoa, moving the main to the windward side basically to get it out of the way of the genoa.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I suppose everyone views it from the perspective of their own respective experiences. Sure, getting set up to go downwind in 5-8 kt, or even more, on a 20' boat carrying the jib of a one-design class, or a small genoa, poling out is easy. I've done it many times racing Cal20s. Loads are light, pole is light, & the sail is fairly small compared to the size (weight) of your foredeck crew. A 30 - 34' boat with a masthead rig carrying a 155% & blowing down in 12 - 15 kt, for example, represents a different animal. Finally, push that up to a 40' boat where, when furled, the genoa clew is high off the deck--above my head I can tell you, add some seas, and there you have yet another situation. The approach I described above in #3 works for me--it will work for anyone & probably on any yacht. With smaller, lighter equipment, and while single-handing, a different approach might be better, however.

 

[Gunni]

My dad always loved to sail W on W. And he had me, the deck monkey to rig the pole, so I have lots of experience with this maneuver. The problem is driver skill, if some one can't keep the boat ddw things start to go wrong fast and a 30lb pole is involved. Inattention, confused seas, lack of skill, and a rudder with little feedback all contribute to problems. So my current boat has an assym. spinnaker, no pole and I don't miss it. I gybe downwind, and pass pappy (nearly) every time.

 

[Davidasailor26]

If the mainsail is on the lee and the genoa is to windward, the whisker pole and genoa are actually functioning as a spinnaker, no?

That's how I was taught to do it. The boats I've crewed on usually set up wing on wing, close to DDW but not by the lee. Then clip the pole to the clew, then the mast, then the topping lift. You can essentially trim the jib as a poled out spinnaker, treating the leach as if it were the luff.

 

[Jackdaw]

That's how I was taught to do it. The boats I've crewed on usually set up wing on wing, close to DDW but not by the lee. Then clip the pole to the clew, then the mast, then the topping lift. You can essentially trim the jib as a poled out spinnaker, treating the leach as if it were the luff.

That's how to set it up for sure. But trimming is different; even when sailing very deep, spinnakers are trimmed to generate lift and are shaped to do so. As far as I can tell, WoW sailing involves setting the sail so it acts like a big air dam and works in push mode. I'd be interested to hear if anyone thinks otherwise.