Speaking of sharing expenses

[PrincessoftheLake]

I have a kind of philosophical question, I think. Captain Grumpy and I are now into our 4th year of cruising in the Apostle Islands. During this time we have hosted many friends and family on board who consider it their free vacation. As most of you other boat owners know, boats are expensive. Besides the cost of the boat there is dockage, storage, maintenance and repairs. When we take our sailing friends out for a weekend I can't help but think how much a charter would cost them and yet when they plan their trip with us they seem to think that they only have to cough up half the meals and that's it. No one has ever offered to split the cost of a slip if we stay at a different marina or offered a few bucks for fuel or pay for a pump out. I understand, it's my choice to have the company (and maybe I should rethink my company!)So, I'm wondering if anyone else has ever had these thoughts and if so, what did you do? Is there a way to tactfully ask for more sharing of expenses? I am happy to share my boat and what I consider the greatest blessing in my life (sailing on Lake Superior) but I do find myself thinking that if it was me invited to join some friends, I would be bringing all the food and trying to be a good and grateful guest. So, go ahead. Call me ungenerous and cheap. Maybe that's what I am?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Point well taken

Some racer skippers provide everything to their crews.Some cruisers do the same.Some split the costs.I usually ask folks to bring their own food for lunches. Maybe that's because other folks I know eat a lot more healthy than I do (I'm your basic steak and potatoes kinda guy! )When overnighting, we usually split meals (and cleaning up). It's never been an issue for us.Your description seems to me to be one of expectations and responsibilities. It's a fine line between providing a "free" vacation for your friends compared to feeling being taken advantage of. It's almost a Dear Abby letter. It would seem that your slowly growing disappointment with your friends needs to be headed off and a discussion about financial sharing well worth the cost of your friendship(s). I'd address it sooner than later, but I'm not quite sure just how to do that, because I don't know what your relationship with these folks is. If you're good friends, then it shouldn't matter. Oddly enough, I've never thought about it quite the way you put it. Perhaps a ski-house analogy would work - for visiting someone who already owns the ski house (NOT sharing a ski house where everyone chips in for the cost of the ski house for a weekend or for a season). Bring your own food, we each bring and share at dinner or switch off, buy your own lift tickets, and split the gas and other fees, like your own "hotel room" cost if it takes more than a day to drive to the slopes. Other choice is: how much $$ are you talking about and is it worth it to you to "challenge" the friendship.Guess I'm no Dear Abby. But I've never ever thought of what the TOTAL cost of the boat to me is. ONLY the cost of the particular trip.It's like inviting guests to your house - you don't factor in the mortgage and the costs of mowing the lawn and electricity and heating and...Good luck, can't wait to hear the other responses, and to learn from them.

 

[Calif. Ted]

Guests that don't offer to pay for

transient mooring fees, fuel, and a nice restaurant every now and then on a trip, don't get reinvited on as many trips as those that do. I usually have the boat stocked with Propane, fuel,drinking water,coffee,ice,food and beverages of my choice to which they are free to partake, if they don't like what I'm eating and drinking they can bring their own. It's a Darwinian method of addressing the problem. I never ask for expenses but they better offer if they want to continue.

 

[Jeff]

You forgot donuts

Ted, you forgot to mention donuts."Neither storm nor silence, pirates or partners, sink or sail, you're always ok as long as there are donuts and cigarettes"

 

[LKYusnret]

My take or 2 cents

When the wife and I invite a couple to do a cruise I come right out and say we'll split the cost of the trip expences. I know I'm not a hired crew. What we have done in the past is to keep track of all ship expences with food, fuel, mooring, travel permits etc than after the trip divide by four, than settle up. Call be cheap...... but for a trip to the Bahamas for around $400/ person total cost is CHEAP. Any expences that are boat cost repairs, wear and tear is not counted.John USNRETS/V Baums RushDoing the Loop as we speak

 

[Rich Stidger]

I predict this thread will explode with opinions..

And of course I have one also.We often take other couples with us on our Power Squadron cruises. We tell them that our practice is to buy all the provisions (mainly so that nothing gets forgotten by thinking the other person is bringing it) and that we will split the cost. This is only the food. We tell them to bring their own beverages if they have a favorite, but that we will have some beer and gin/tonic that they are welcome to have.We never ask for a share of the fuel. In the very rare case that we are planning on a mooring or a slip, we ask them to split the cost.We have never had any complaints from our guests. Often they will pick up a dinner tab if we are out at a restaurant during the cruise, but that is their option.I also have a very good friend and his son who help me every spring and fall for a weekend each time to cover and un-cover the boat, prep and paint the bottom, clean and polish the metal, and clean and wax the topsides. In appreciation, I take them on a week's cruise during the summer. On this cruise they insist on providing all the food, any mooring cost, and will kick in all or most of a $80 fuel fill-up. They tell me that they are just happy for me to provide the boat and the opportunity for them to go on a cruise. We pay for any land-based meals and expenses separately. I've argued with them that I should pay for some of the food and the fuel, but I usually lose the discussion.

 

[Rick D]

Insurance Ramifications....

...It's one thing for guests to spring for a dinner ashore, or bring supplies. However, it is another for splitting operating costs, or being asked to provision, etc. It can put you in a very different position with respect to your liability, so tread carefully in this regard.In my experience, most casual boat guests do not and are not expected to split expenses. Rather, the more thoughtful ones try to reciprocate in other ways. Rick D.

 

[abe]

Going on private plane, boat, someone's house...

I always bring something for that occassion or offer to bring food/wine before getting there. If on a private plane or boat I will offer to buy lunch or dinner after the trip and share fuel expense (specially airplane). It is the right thing to do.I think your problem is that you have the wrong type of "friends". If your boat sinks and you loose all that you have....they will split like "cucarachas". My wife call these people "fair wheather friends", just there for the good times.That said......I have a few weekends available next month.abe

 

[Rob Morton]

Sharing

We have invited ones out on our boat just for a day or weekend sail. Most usually insist on bring something to contribute to the meal along with wine or other drink. We don't expect it but its nice. The ones who bring something tend to get invited more. One friend makes a to die for chocolate tort with homemade rasberry sauce. She gets invited all the time!On the other side we were invited one year on another boat for a weeks vacation. We split all the costs, fuel, moorage, trip up etc. We took care of half the meals on the boat. This was discussed up front. We paid for part of the cost to have the boat trucked up as well. I spent a day with the owner cleaning waxing etc. as well. We enjoyed it but for it cost we could have had a chartered boat with a steward. I don't know if we would do it again but it was enjoyable and was all discussed up front. Princess, perhaps broach the subject over a bottle of wine and see what the response is. We have had some ask what boat ettiquet (sp) is. One couple even went online and showed us the article on how to be a good guest on the boat. They provided everything and even asked how the head worked. We just have a portapot but it was nice to have them be such nice guests. I also don't think people really know what it costs to have a boat, or if you do have one they think you are loaded and don't need any help with it. Just my humble opinion. Rob MortonS/V Euphoria

 

[Hugh4753]

Just my opinion

When I invite someone to dinner I pay. When I invite someone out on the boat, it's my boat and I pay, if they bring a bottle of wine or six pack of beer it's appreciated but not expected.

 

[PrincessoftheLake]

Very thought provoking

I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond. It gave me a lot to think about. I suspect what I'm dealing with here is a larger issue about the relationship with one particular couple. I didn't realize I was having such an issue with it until after I posted. Thanks for the great comments.

 

[Warren Milberg]

I think there is a big difference

in being invited out for a day sail or perhaps a weekend on a friend's boat, or being invited to share a joint vacation with some others. In the former case, if I'm doing the inviting, I expect to pick up the entire cost of the event. Anything contributed by the invitees is always appreciated, however. But in the latter case, that is, a longer sail that equates to a joint vacation for all concerned, I think it important to state up front that it would be expected that all costs be shared.For Rob Morton: I'd like to invite your chocolate-tort-with-raspberry-sauce friends to sail with me if they are on the East Coast!!