i've been thinking about a solid boom vang to eiiminate the topping lift but my rigger says that even with a solid boom vang the boat should still have atopping lift because said boom vang would not allow down loads on the boom such as holding the boom while making your way forward. any thoughts?
solid boom vang question
- Thread starter mortyd
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I'm not sure, but I think what your rigger is implying is that any excessive down loads on the boom will work against the hydraullcs, and allow the boom to move downwards, possibly striking the dodger or bimini. This could certainly happen if you were to tighten the mainsheet to center and secure the boom while not sailing. My boat is equipped with a solid vang, but also has a topping lift, since we use a Dutchman flaking system. The topping lift allows me to adjust the height of the boom before I tighten the mainsheet.
Have a Garhauer rigid vang on my very heavy Catalina 1980 mk1 (sail 1743) just installed this year . Kept the masthead attached topping lift attached to the back stay just in case. Never needed it.
If you want it ultra stable like when hurricane Irene came through here a few months ago, pull the main halyard off the mainsail header and attach it to the boom end?
I hated that topping lift slapping around when I raced.
Rigid vang also dampens the main on puffy days as well. A top 20 upgrade on my boat for sure.
If you want it ultra stable like when hurricane Irene came through here a few months ago, pull the main halyard off the mainsail header and attach it to the boom end?
I hated that topping lift slapping around when I raced.
Rigid vang also dampens the main on puffy days as well. A top 20 upgrade on my boat for sure.
M,
I installed a Forespar boom vang some years ago on my C30. It is a spring-loaded type as opposed to the Hydraulic type.
Although it is rated for the weight, I kept my topping lift. Reasons for this were keeping the ability to set the height of the boom.
Sail down, The advantage of keeping the topping lift satisfies two reasons.
1. The boom should have an angle where it is higher at the boom end than at the mast. With this angled up set, when raising the sail, the weight of the boom does not affect the leach when setting the tension at the luff. After this is done, then drop the topping lift. In this manner, you won't be putting stress on the leach when raising & tensioning your sail.
Have you ever noticed boats with lower hanging booms with main up? Look at the sail, and you will see more vertical stretch lines running parallel to the leach in many cases. This is common for sails that have some age to them, and more stretch in the leach area.
When my sail is up, the boom is never angled down. I also pay attention to my leach line. This needs to be M,
I installed a Forespar vang some years ago on my C30. It is a spring loaded type as opposed to the Hydraulic type.
Altough it is rated for the weight, I kept my topping lift. Reasons for this were keeping the ability to set the height of the boom.
Sail down, The advantage of keeping the topping lift satisfies two reasons.
1. the boom should have an angle where it is higher at the boom end than at the mast. With this angled up set, when raising the sail, the weight of the boom does not affect the leach when setting the tension at the luff. After this is done, then drop the topping lift. In this manner, you won't be putting stress on the leach when raising your sail.
Have you ever noticed boats with lower hanging booms with main up? Look at the sail, and you will see more vertical stretch lines running parallel to the leach in many cases. This is common for sails that have some age to them, and more stretch in the leach area.
When my sail is up, the boom is never angled down. I also pay attention to my leach line. This needs to be adjusted periodically to avoid stretch lines. The optimum set is to have the load of the boom & any sail tension distributed evenly along the length of the boom. Your sail shape will last years longer.
2. With the topping lift and angled boom, my sail cover clears my bimini and does not wear on the sunbrella. Sunbrella has a low wear factor and this should be avoided. I have a high bimini as many of my friends are tall.
So, I say to keep the topping lift, yea it can be a pain at some time but still has its uses.....
CR
I installed a Forespar boom vang some years ago on my C30. It is a spring-loaded type as opposed to the Hydraulic type.
Although it is rated for the weight, I kept my topping lift. Reasons for this were keeping the ability to set the height of the boom.
Sail down, The advantage of keeping the topping lift satisfies two reasons.
1. The boom should have an angle where it is higher at the boom end than at the mast. With this angled up set, when raising the sail, the weight of the boom does not affect the leach when setting the tension at the luff. After this is done, then drop the topping lift. In this manner, you won't be putting stress on the leach when raising & tensioning your sail.
Have you ever noticed boats with lower hanging booms with main up? Look at the sail, and you will see more vertical stretch lines running parallel to the leach in many cases. This is common for sails that have some age to them, and more stretch in the leach area.
When my sail is up, the boom is never angled down. I also pay attention to my leach line. This needs to be M,
I installed a Forespar vang some years ago on my C30. It is a spring loaded type as opposed to the Hydraulic type.
Altough it is rated for the weight, I kept my topping lift. Reasons for this were keeping the ability to set the height of the boom.
Sail down, The advantage of keeping the topping lift satisfies two reasons.
1. the boom should have an angle where it is higher at the boom end than at the mast. With this angled up set, when raising the sail, the weight of the boom does not affect the leach when setting the tension at the luff. After this is done, then drop the topping lift. In this manner, you won't be putting stress on the leach when raising your sail.
Have you ever noticed boats with lower hanging booms with main up? Look at the sail, and you will see more vertical stretch lines running parallel to the leach in many cases. This is common for sails that have some age to them, and more stretch in the leach area.
When my sail is up, the boom is never angled down. I also pay attention to my leach line. This needs to be adjusted periodically to avoid stretch lines. The optimum set is to have the load of the boom & any sail tension distributed evenly along the length of the boom. Your sail shape will last years longer.
2. With the topping lift and angled boom, my sail cover clears my bimini and does not wear on the sunbrella. Sunbrella has a low wear factor and this should be avoided. I have a high bimini as many of my friends are tall.
So, I say to keep the topping lift, yea it can be a pain at some time but still has its uses.....
CR
well. the reason i am considering a solid boom vang is because my topping lift needs replacement, so if you all still have topping lifts that saves me big bucks. thanks guys.
I think Tom J nailed it: “any excessive down loads on the boom will work against the hydraullcs, and allow the boom to move downwards, possibly striking the dodger or bimini. This could certainly happen if you were to tighten the mainsheet to center and secure the boom while not sailing.”
This is exactly what happened to me with the spring loaded vang. The boom lowered beyond the normal stopping point and just missed my crew’s head.
Since then I am very careful when easing the topping lift. In any case I need it to achieve the correct boom angle for in-mast furling, which is just above the bimini.
This is exactly what happened to me with the spring loaded vang. The boom lowered beyond the normal stopping point and just missed my crew’s head.
Since then I am very careful when easing the topping lift. In any case I need it to achieve the correct boom angle for in-mast furling, which is just above the bimini.
Seems like this is well covered... but my experience is that the rigid vang made by garhauer holds the boom up just fine. I had to climb on the boom to retrieve a lost halyard and the only thing that happened was that the spring bottomed out... not a big deal if you ask me for an every once in a while thing. But holding onto the boom to steady yourself going forward should not be an issue. I would make sure the vang you have is made for the boat. Mine is off on a 310. I had to cut it down a little but the folks at garhauer were very helpful in walking me through it. It is definitely one of my favorite upgrades. Just be careful because the massive purchase could be over used and I would be careful of over tightening it. Just keep your eye on the top batten. You just want it to be parallel to the boom at max trim on the vang. Don't hook it to weather. And remember to loosen it before winching the main up. Just my opinion, of course.
Mortyd: I'm only familiar with the Garhauer Rigid Vang, which I sold and installed, and the situation you're describing wouldn't happen with that product, especially if you upgraded the springs (which isn't necessary) to what they called at the time gold springs. These springs look like something off of a 1957 Chevy PU. It's over kill but "bigger is better". The boom easily rest on these springs and the only way to lower the boom would be to crank on the boom vang.
You don't need a topping lift with the Garhauer product. In fact you install the unit with the boom about 10 degrees above horizontal so your set for very light to light wind conditions and as the wind pipes up you crank in the adjustment you want.
If your decision is to either replace the topping lift, which is considerably cheaper than buying a rigid vang, then the most economical way to go is replace the topping lift.
The problem is the topping lift and the boom vang are two different thing. The main purpose of the topping lift is hold up the boom when the sail is flaked. The boom vang is a sail trim control.
You don't need a topping lift with the Garhauer product. In fact you install the unit with the boom about 10 degrees above horizontal so your set for very light to light wind conditions and as the wind pipes up you crank in the adjustment you want.
If your decision is to either replace the topping lift, which is considerably cheaper than buying a rigid vang, then the most economical way to go is replace the topping lift.
The problem is the topping lift and the boom vang are two different thing. The main purpose of the topping lift is hold up the boom when the sail is flaked. The boom vang is a sail trim control.
thanks don. i do have a boom vang and your book and charts - so i use my boom vang - but i have already had a new topping lift installed because of cost.
I have tried to explain the toppinglift on my boat before...I'll try again. It is technically Not a topping lift. It is a light stainless cable attached with a clamp and taped to the backstay perpendicular to the end of the boom.
It is easy to attach to the boom any time, anywhere, as long as the boom is on the center line. When we are under sail, it is hooked to the backstay and by its own weight stays low and within reach. It was installed on the boat when I bought it and I had made the same arrangement on the ODay 272 we owned previously. It's strange that such a simple durable arrangement is (seemingly) so uncommon.
It is easy to attach to the boom any time, anywhere, as long as the boom is on the center line. When we are under sail, it is hooked to the backstay and by its own weight stays low and within reach. It was installed on the boat when I bought it and I had made the same arrangement on the ODay 272 we owned previously. It's strange that such a simple durable arrangement is (seemingly) so uncommon.
Tim,
A picture is worth a thousand words pal.
A topping lift is just that, a topping lift.
when NOT under sail, it supports the boom period.
If your setup is somewhat different, include a pic for discussion.
It sounds as if you are not happy with your setup.........
CR
A picture is worth a thousand words pal.
A topping lift is just that, a topping lift.
when NOT under sail, it supports the boom period.
If your setup is somewhat different, include a pic for discussion.
It sounds as if you are not happy with your setup.........
CR
Sorry for interfering, Capnron. I'm an old guy, don't take pix, not unhappy with the setup on my boat, and probably could get into a long-winded rant about the def of a topping lift, but I'm tired... what I described isn't hard to picture. Again, sorry for upsetting you.
Not uncommon, you're just using the incorrect term for it.
It is very common on C22s and some C25s.
It is called a "boom lift."
It is only used when you are NOT sailing, 'cuz if you attached when sailing you'd be stuck with the boom on the centerline. Not too good if you're sailing on a beam reach and you want to let your mainsheet out, right?
Many folks with boom lifts do NOT have topping lifts, but when they drop their mains without a true topping lift, and before they connect their boom lifts, the boom drops into the cockpit, hence the boom lift.
Works fine in light air, but when it's windy, a topping lift is much more helpful.
My C22 had both. My C25 didn't have a boom lift, but did have a topping lift.
Darn, those definitions do come in handy, don't they?
Thanks, Stu. Whatever it is called, it works for me. The boat has a Garhauer boom which will support the mast load until I hook it up, and yes, I have tried to sail with the boom lift attached. It doesn't take long for me to remember to unhook it. What I like about it is that it is never flopping around behind the leech like a topping lift does at times.
tom
tom
Dump the topping lift.
Do what the racers do.
When done with the sail, run the main halyard to the end of the boom and take off the slack. Pressure is now off the vsng, and you can set the height to help clear the cockpit.
Side beni, it keeps the main halyard from clanging on the mast.
Sorted.
Do what the racers do.
When done with the sail, run the main halyard to the end of the boom and take off the slack. Pressure is now off the vsng, and you can set the height to help clear the cockpit.
Side beni, it keeps the main halyard from clanging on the mast.
Sorted.
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