solar charge controller?

[CABixler]

I had the same exact sunforce controller when I hooked up my panel this spring, My batteries were a little over 50% charged (reading right around 12-12.2v) when I installed everything, and after 3 weeks of good sun with little to no load on them, I found that the batteries were still only testing around 75% charged according to the hydrometer. That is when I started digging into the differences in how the charge controllers worked and found that the sunforce was actually preventing the batteries from fully charging by turning off as soon as the surface charge reached 14.2v, and never allowing much charge to be absorbed. The self discharge of the batteries was almost equal to what I was actually inputting through the sunforce controller, and in the end I wasn't really charging much of anything.

I went with the Genasun GV-4 (http://www.genasun.com/gv-4.shtml) on Maine Sail's reccomendation (I beleive he actually has a genasun, not a morningstar on his boat), partly because I don't have enough room to install a large panel so I needed to get all the juice I could out of what I have (12w), and the MPPT gives me a nice boost in the mornings.

I checked on everything a couple days after hooking it up, and found the batteries were sitting at float stage and the hydrometer was indicating full charge. Every time I have checked the batteries since installing the GV-4, they are sitting at float stage and fully charged within a day or two of getting back at the docks from going out for the weekend, and no matter what I seem to do power wise at the dock they are always recharged the next day (and no, I don't have a shore power chargeing system).

In short, the sunforce is half worthless and get rid of it, replace it with a good controller and you will be very happy with the decision.

This such a timely thread. Too bad I made the same mistake. I just put on a real neat 40 watt panel on the bimini top of mt Beneteau 331. While i waa installing and mounting i went from 12.3 to 12.6 in few hours on a sunny day. Im on a mooring. My daughter went down last night after 3 full sunny days. She called and said it was at 12.6! Not the 12.8-12.9 i was hoping for.

I also have the 7 amp sunforce. Just bought from west marine.

Question: could it be also a bad battery? Or it seems clear the sunforce controller may be a poor choice?

 

[Cruiser1]

Thanks very much for that good explanation FourPoints, that really clears up a lot of issues for me - although I still have a long way to go in terms of a full understanding. I have the same parts manual and will have a good look at all the diagrams and try to get my head around it all over the next few weeks. This all explains why my current battery, that is only about 2 years old, is less than happy.

Looks like I need to look at a similar set up to yours for the motor charging circuit and put a separate charge controller on the solar panel. It is incredible that the outboard manufacturers don't market a better option for charging - even if it cost some extra!

George could make a good novel out of his life - amazing.

Interesting to see you have the same vintage of surprising motor. I was able to get Nissan in the US to confirm that mine is April 1992 manufacture. My outboard mechanic said it was in amazingly good condition and has as new compression - never misses a beat.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[FourPoints]

Interesting to see you have the same vintage of surprising motor. I was able to get Nissan in the US to confirm that mine is April 1992 manufacture. My outboard mechanic said it was in amazingly good condition and has as new compression - never misses a beat.

Thanks for all your help.

My motor was original to my boat, and came installed at the hunter factory, I did a compression test last spring as well, tested great, and the motor runs great. As you can sort of see in the pictures it is in great condition, however i did just notice today that the the fuel line just inside of the cowling looks like it is due for a replacement... It will be fine for this weekend, but sometime in the next couple weeks I want to replace it.

 

[timebandit]

Both my Yamaha and Honda have lighting coils that put out 72 watts and are not called battery chargers.

Thanks very much for that good explanation FourPoints, that really clears up a lot of issues for me - although I still have a long way to go in terms of a full understanding. I have the same parts manual and will have a good look at all the diagrams and try to get my head around it all over the next few weeks. This all explains why my current battery, that is only about 2 years old, is less than happy.

Looks like I need to look at a similar set up to yours for the motor charging circuit and put a separate charge controller on the solar panel. It is incredible that the outboard manufacturers don't market a better option for charging - even if it cost some extra!

George could make a good novel out of his life - amazing.

Interesting to see you have the same vintage of surprising motor. I was able to get Nissan in the US to confirm that mine is April 1992 manufacture. My outboard mechanic said it was in amazingly good condition and has as new compression - never misses a beat.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[FourPoints]

Both my Yamaha and Honda have lighting coils that put out 72 watts and are not called battery chargers.

Six of one, half dozen of the other... Some manufactures say lighting only, some say lighting or charging, they are the same system either way...

 

[Cruiser1]

Six of one, half dozen of the other... Some manufactures say lighting only, some say lighting or charging, they are the same system either way...

I guess that protects the butt of some manufacturers when someone cooks their battery. I notice the Nissan/Tohatsu Parts List refers to it as an Alternator but I guess it is a good old fashion magneto - no expert here but assume that gives power to the plugs via the 'CD Unit' (I guess what they refer to in the diagram as a CD Unit is a condensor?) and sends excess to the battey.

By the way FourPoints I have been studying the wiring diagram in the Parts List a bit today and notice a Tacho can be plugged in to the same white and yellow wires that connect the rectifier to the alternator. I would really like to have a tacho for testing different props and fuel comsumption - do you have a Tacho on your motor?

I will get my head around the wiring diagram for when I next go down to the boat - hopefully this coming week.

 

[FourPoints]

On these engines the charging (lighting) system is completely seperate and isolated from the ignition system. There are 2 seperate coils under the flywheel, one powers ignition, the other sends ac power to the diode rectifier, which is then converted to dc power. The rectifier output is attached to the battery cable where it connects to the starter silonoid so it can feed power back into the batteries.

I saw the note about adding a tach on the diagram and have considered it, but it would require an additional wire ran as i dont think i have a extra wire in my harness, so I probably wont do it.

 

[timebandit]

This tach works on just about anything--

http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/index.php

I guess that protects the butt of some manufacturers when someone cooks their battery. I notice the Nissan/Tohatsu Parts List refers to it as an Alternator but I guess it is a good old fashion magneto - no expert here but assume that gives power to the plugs via the 'CD Unit' (I guess what they refer to in the diagram as a CD Unit is a condensor?) and sends excess to the battey.

By the way FourPoints I have been studying the wiring diagram in the Parts List a bit today and notice a Tacho can be plugged in to the same white and yellow wires that connect the rectifier to the alternator. I would really like to have a tacho for testing different props and fuel comsumption - do you have a Tacho on your motor?

I will get my head around the wiring diagram for when I next go down to the boat - hopefully this coming week.

 

[FourPoints]

The rectifier output is attached to the battery cable where it connects to the starter silonoid so it can feed power back into the batteries.

BTW, if you did want to install a charge controller on the outboard system, you would have to disconnect this output wire and run it to a dedicated charge controller such as this http://www.flexcharge.com/flexcharge_usa/products/nc25a/nc25a.htm with a divert load attached to it like a small water heater or fridge... I decided that was not worth the effort / expense for myself...

 

[timebandit]

Maybe one of the reasons the yamaha and honda are more expensive is because they do have a true regulator that keeps the voltage to 14.2 volts or so regardless if you have a pair of dc group 27 batteries or just a lonely 1157 bulb and at full rpm.

Running 20 volts to 12 volt lights does not seem to be a good idea.

My two engines are from the late eighties and one is a two stroke and one a four stroke.

Remember they have been building small engines with eletric starters and charging systems for a long, long time.

 

[FourPoints]

Maybe one of the reasons the yamaha and honda are more expensive is because they do have a true regulator that keeps the voltage to 14.2 volts or so regardless if you have a pair of dc group 27 batteries or just a lonely 1157 bulb and at full rpm.

Running 20 volts to 12 volt lights does not seem to be a good idea.

My two engines are from the late eighties and one is a two stroke and one a four stroke.

Remember they have been building small engines with eletric starters and charging systems for a long, long time.

The regulator is cheap, I bought the one I installed for ~$30. They could OEM it for $5-10 vs the $4-7 the spent on the rectifier, so it isn't about the price, it's more that they assumed that if you were using a 80w max output charging system to charge your batteries, you were always going to have partially drained batteries, (most peoples nav lights alone draw more than 80w), so they didn't think it was necessary to add.

Installing a smart charge controller on the other hand is the pricy part, and your honda / yahama don't have that either...

 

[Cruiser1]

This tach works on just about anything--

http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/index.php

Yes Timebandit, that is probably an easy way out for $10/year seeing the non-replacable battery lasts about 5 years. Thanks for that.

 

[Cruiser1]

BTW, if you did want to install a charge controller on the outboard system, you would have to disconnect this output wire and run it to a dedicated charge controller such as this http://www.flexcharge.com/flexcharge_usa/products/nc25a/nc25a.htm with a divert load attached to it like a small water heater or fridge... I decided that was not worth the effort / expense for myself...

Yes FourPoints, I can see that is probably the ultimate solution and would be good if you did run a fridge on the boat. My 'problem' is I don't want to get my boat too over complicated. Trailer sailing already seems much more complicated that when I was into it 40 odd years ago.

 

[Cruiser1]

Installing a smart charge controller on the other hand is the pricy part, and your honda / yahama don't have that either...

I guess what you mean FourPoints is that these simply keep the voltage down but don't balance/vary the volt/amp balance accoring to need - is that correct? Would that mean the Honda/Yamaha systems at least have less chance of frying the battery?

 

[FourPoints]

I guess what you mean FourPoints is that these simply keep the voltage down but don't balance/vary the volt/amp balance accoring to need - is that correct? Would that mean the Honda/Yamaha systems at least have less chance of frying the battery?

That is precisely what I am saying...

 

[Cruiser1]

your motor is identical to mine, they even share the same parts manual. if you follow the same steps I used you will be able to add the regulator to your motor without much trouble. if you need help locating I can give you more info on the process.

Hi FourPoints, I guess this is the regulator you have used:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Voltage-Regulator-Briggs-S-394890-691185-797375-/320609785706
Looks easy enough to get it mailed here from Oregon for under $50.

 

[FourPoints]

I think i put a link on my site to the page on amazon were i bought it from, and i think it was less than that shipped. I am on the hook at the moment with poor cell signal so it is hard to check...

 

[Cruiser1]

I think i put a link on my site to the page on amazon were i bought it from, and i think it was less than that shipped. I am on the hook at the moment with poor cell signal so it is hard to check...

Sorry didn't see that was a web link when I read the info on your site. Looks like the same article only the Amazon site is $57 + delivery.