So your in a late night boating accident.....

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Nov 22, 2011
1,296
Ericson 26-2 San Pedro, CA
Search the SBO archives for "Dinius". There are several threads discussing a similar collision where the hapless victim was the only one charged, not the well connected guy who caused the accident. . . . . oh yeah, and by the way KILLED a passenger on Dinius' boat.

I truly hope this one shakes out differently.
Latitude 38 had massive and detailed coverage of this terrible tragedy as well.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,432
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
However, there is a major distinction in this case ... the US Rep wasn't the owner or the operator, or the captain of the water taxi. The party on board were simply paying customers (I presume).

NYC taxi drivers have a reputation for being reckless. Portland residents may have some insight into the reputation of the water taxi operators. Are they generally courteous and observe all navigation rules, or are they known for being rude, arrogant and for never giving way under most crossing circumstances?

If the taxi operators don't have a particularly good reputation, why should the US Rep get embroiled in a controversy where she has nothing to gain and something to lose (by using her influence inappropriately)? She doesn't have any need to be protected from fault, since she had nothing to do with the accident.
 
Jan 22, 2008
880
Fed up w/ personal attacks I'm done with SBO
Latitude 38 had massive and detailed coverage of this terrible tragedy as well.
There was a movement at the time imploring the State Attorney General to get involved and put a stop to the injustice. He ignored the request, looked the other way. He had a political campaign coming up and it wouldn't help his cause by getting drawn into such an issue.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,432
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Otoh ....

considering the fright they suffered, it wouldn't surprise me if she (the US Rep) finds a need to introduce a bill to shake up the navigation rules on the water. Something in the order of 2,000 pages of fine print, completely defining the use of traffic lanes and crossing signals on the water should do the trick.
 

Gail R

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Apr 22, 2009
261
Pearson 34 Freeport, ME
It has always been hard for me to believe that operating a power boat can lead to collisions, must have been some pretty high cruising speeds.

I can understand when I am hanging those big rags from my masts.

but have never been close in my powerboats
Nothing surprises me any more. I still remember doing an informal club race one fall. Here we had a bunch of sailboats, all beating and heading in the same direction. We were in the lead, and there was a 15'+- skiff in our path. Despite the big rags hanging from the rigging, we saw him quite early on. He was puttering forward, right to left across our path, at a slow rate of speed, oblivious to our presence. The relative angle of the two boats was not changing, so we were on a collision course. When he finally saw us, he got this deer in the headlights look (probably due to the sight of the 25# CQR on our bow that was going to hit him in the head if he didn't do something), and started to slow down. We were trying to figure out whether to go above or below him, and he was essentially playing chicken with us. At the last minute, he slammed the boat in reverse and got out of our way. It was freakin' scary.

We finished the race, got shot at (yay!) and got back to our mooring. This same boat started to putter past us, and we waved him over. My husband wanted to have a nice, civil but educational conversation with the guy in hopes that he might learn something about rules of the road and the need to pay attention. Then the guy almost ran into a moored boat nearby.

Some boaters are just clueless, and unfortunately, not much we can do about that.
 

Gail R

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Apr 22, 2009
261
Pearson 34 Freeport, ME
I agree with Maine Sail. Political pull has more to do with these sorts of cases than who is right or wrong.
There was a case in Cal of a sheriff who ran over a sailboat and killed someone and the sheriff wasn't even charged. The whole case got so twisted that even though there were multiple witnesses that laid the blame completely on the sheriff, the guy on the sailboat went to jail.
Power and prestige have everything to do with right and wrong in the US these days.
We should not have an elite that is above the law, politicians, LEO's or the very rich.
Actually, the guy in the sailboat was eventually acquitted of the charges against him. Not sure how much time he spent in the slammer post-arrest, though. And the legal expenses pretty much cleaned him out.
 
Sep 5, 2007
689
MacGregor 26X Rochester
One of the objections I have read concerning Fresnel lenses is the narrow band of light emitted. When the Osprey is running in the bow high configuration seen in the picture do the bow lights show horizontally or at an upward angle?
Fresnel lenses have an extremely short focal length, with the bulb close behind them, so the dimensions of the bulb and even the orientation of the filament would have an effect on the angle above and below horizontal that's effectively covered. The regs cover this required angle, and the maximum degree to which the intensity is diminished within a certain angle above and below the main operating range. If a Fresnel equipped nav light meets the requirements at manufacture, and is USCG approved (via third-party testing), and if it's installed correctly, then it shouldn't be an issue, but that's a lot of 'ifs', and based on what I've seen on even new boats (power and sail), manufacturers don't always put that much thought into the mounting of nav lights.

There are also nav lights advertised as suitable for powerboats, and those advertised as suitable for sailboats, but I haven't seen any actual regulation listing performance difference requirements, which presumably have to do with the angle above and below the horizontal, as sailboats heel as a matter of normal operation. I've only seen one requirement spelled out in the COLREGS or supporting documents for that angle.
 

BobM

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Jun 10, 2004
3,269
S2 9.2A Winthrop, MA
Another thing...

...that isn't considered is the condition of the lenses. I bet most 10+ year old boats lenses would benefit quite a bit from polishing. Do cloudy old lenses still meet USCG specs? I doubt it!
 

kenn

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Apr 18, 2009
1,271
CL Sandpiper 565 Toronto
From the standpoint of the water-taxi passengers, they're gonna collect regardless of who was at fault, no? I imagine they would make claims with the insurers of both vessels, and the insurers would sort it out. So, wouldn't the passengers have no real interest in apportioning blame?
 
Oct 1, 2007
1,865
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
If there are suits brought by anyone for damages, remember how tort law works. Deep pockets. So, insurance companies for the water taxi and the Grady White, boat builders and their insurance carriers, and any other entity even remotely connected. As an aside, from the pictures posted it sure looks like the Grady White was stand on and the water taxi burdened. If so, the only way out for the water taxi is if the Grady White was not showing the proper lights, assuming both operators were at full capacity.
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
7,090
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
I think it's more complicated. Regardless of who is stand on, all have the responsibility to mitigate, i.e., avoid a collision. The Grady looks like it just T-boned the taxi, no attempt to turn as far as I can see.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Accidents can almost always be avoided by alert, watchful drivers. I encounter far too many occasions when the other driver or pedestrian seemed completely unaware.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,432
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I have a natural tendency to watch more carefully in the direction where I must give-way (off the stbd bow). It's not a valid excuse, but I can see where the fellow driving the Grady could have missed seeing the crossing boat in time just for that reason.

I often wonder if navigation lights really are bright enough. I understand that it would be difficult to balance the priority between being seen and destroying night vision. On Lake Hopatcong, it can be very difficult to distinguish a boat from the multitude of shore lights, especially since many boat houses have red and green lights in their cute attempt to make their buildings look "nautical". It isn't uncommon for me to spot a boat that takes me by surprise for not seeing it earlier.
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,811
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
I often wonder if navigation lights really are bright enough. I understand that it would be difficult to balance the priority between being seen and destroying night vision. On Lake Hopatcong, it can be very difficult to distinguish a boat from the multitude of shore lights, especially since many boat houses have red and green lights in their cute attempt to make their buildings look "nautical". It isn't uncommon for me to spot a boat that takes me by surprise for not seeing it earlier.
Shore lights are an issue for me and the bright lights always appear closer than the dim ones. What really knots my shorts are the areas void of light where you expect to see lights. Especially if you are looking for an oil tanker silhouette on a moonless night. I totally missed a tug between us because the tug's lights were in line with the tankers.

Two questions here, would safe speed be a factor and would the avoidance procedure be turning hard to starboard?

All U Get
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
One of the most frequent citations in accident reports is driving too fast for conditions.
 

hman

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Sep 13, 2006
93
Oday 23 Grass Valley, CA
Actually, the guy in the sailboat was eventually acquitted of the charges against him. Not sure how much time he spent in the slammer post-arrest, though. And the legal expenses pretty much cleaned him out.

I know him personally, he sails with a friend as crew racing a Catalina 22. The ordeal cost him his job and his life's savings. We have participated in several fund raisers to help him out with his legal fees.

The injustice to him was all political in a small county. Jerry Brown who was our Atty General at the time, refused to get involved even though there was proof positive that the Sheriff's Officer involved had been drinking and was going very fast at dusk.

Sailors in particular need to take notice of what happened to him...
 
Jan 22, 2008
880
Fed up w/ personal attacks I'm done with SBO
Yeah, and former atty general Brown is now our governor.

It's bad enough that as you say, the LEO had been drinking, was going way fast in reduced visibility (dusk to darkness), was burdened in the typical power-sail crossing and ultimately killed a lady on the sailboat but there are several other players after the fact:

  • The local Sheriff's Department who shielded their own by railroading Mr. Dinius
  • The local prosecutor who fell in line with the Sheriff and brought the full force of his office to bear on the surviving victim
  • The State Atty General who specifically ignored the injustice in the interest of his own upcoming campaign for governor. It was his job to step in on behalf of the citizenry and he didn't. He can't claim ignorance either, he knew all about it.
So what was the outcome? A lady is dead, a sailboat destroyed, nobody prosecuted, one guy (Mr. Dinius) persecuted and driven to financial ruin. What a system.

I commend you hman and those who participated in the fundraisers to help Mr. Dinius. Please keep us informed if there are any more in the future.
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
I know once you have your USCG license, you are expected to be the more responsible party. which is one reason I haven't pursued it. (*and I no plans to make money with a license, so why bother. )
 
Oct 1, 2007
1,865
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
Shore lights are an issue for me and the bright lights always appear closer than the dim ones. What really knots my shorts are the areas void of light where you expect to see lights. Especially if you are looking for an oil tanker silhouette on a moonless night. I totally missed a tug between us because the tug's lights were in line with the tankers.

Two questions here, would safe speed be a factor and would the avoidance procedure be turning hard to starboard?

All U Get
In a closing situation such as this, once you've decided to abandon your stand on responsibility which should not be done lightly, turning to starboard actually increases your exposure. I never hesitate to use my horn when I am uncertain as to whether the other boat sees me and understands he is burdened.
 
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