So, I pulled the trigger on an "X2Power" lithium battery.

[Gene Neill]

Such a cute little thing!

It's 33 pounds lighter than our beloved Trojan FLA battery, has about 18% more usable Ah, supposedly charges four times faster, and comes with a 10-year free replacement warranty. It is Bluetooth equipped and can be monitored on your phone. It protects itself against over-charging and over-discharging, and it thrives on a partial state of charge.

All those things, plus a cocktail or two (or four) finally made me click the "buy" button.

 

[Gene Neill]

Seems to be working ...

 

[Gene Neill]

Screen shots from the X2Power app and the Victron solar controller app. Nice to see they are within two hundredths of a volt on the battery.

 

[Rick Webb]

That's pretty cool. I'm going to have to buy batteries soon I'm going to look into those.

As an aside your flare gun will not count toward meeting the requirement if it is still on the package. A great way to organize and store them and I doubt there are many guys who are enough of a jackass to actually cite you but forewarned is forearmed.

 

[dlochner]

How are you going to charge this battery?

 

[brockangelo]

As an aside your flare gun will not count toward meeting the requirement if it is still on the package.

I can TOTALLY see why that is the case. There was an episode of the TV show “Curb Your Enthusiasm” about these plastic wrapped packages and how hard they are to open.

 

[Gene Neill]

As an aside your flare gun will not count toward meeting the requirement if it is still on the package. A great way to organize and store them and I doubt there are many guys who are enough of a jackass to actually cite you but forewarned is forearmed.

Thanks for the heads up! I had not heard that before. I think I'll be okay though. Although you can't see it, the package is already sliced open all the way up and down the right side. (I've had to replace expired flares a couple times.) I can pull the gun and flares out as easy as pulling a letter out of an envelope.

How are you going to charge this battery?

Glad you asked.

I'm hoping to charge it the same way we've always charged the FLA Trojan: two articulating 30W Renogy panels on a Victron controller. I deliberately ran the battery down overnight last night, and now I'm watching to see what happens. I've set the controller to the "Smart Lithium" presets, but I need to dig deeper and make sure Victron's default settings (found under "expert mode" on the controller menu) are 100% ideal for this battery. The battery manufacturer doesn't publish this data anywhere I've been able to find, so it's probably going to require some phone calls.

These are the settings as they are now:

 

[dlochner]

The X2 website is a bit short on useful information. They claim the battery has 640 watt hours of capacity (roughly 50ah). Your panels under ideal conditions can produce 60 watts, so under ideal conditions it would take 10 hours to restore the batter from 0%SOC to 100%SOC. Realistically, even in Florida, you'll probably only get between 180 wh to 240 wh of power from the panels. That's 3 to 4 times the nominal panel output.

The 14.2v charge is probably fine.

 

[Gene Neill]

Realistically, even in Florida, you'll probably only get between 180 wh to 240 wh of power from the panels. That's 3 to 4 times the nominal panel output.

You are spot on with 180Wh/day as a minimum. Our real-world solar yield, measured in late December (shortest days of the year), in typical mixed clouds-and-sun weather conditions, averages 175Wh (14.6Ah) per day.

More than enough for our needs.

In the table below, the area in outlined in red shows the solar yield data, collected over nine consecutive days (December 15th - 24th). As you can see, the battery voltage at the end of the cruise is the same as it was at the beginning.

 

[Rick Webb]

I can pull the gun and flares out as easy as pulling a letter out of an envelope.

Good to hear. Same thing applies to PFDs and any other required piece of equipment. Seems sort of silly a vinyl bag closed with heavy duty Velcro is ok, but a flimsy plastic bag is not.

And while on the safety gear nerd rant. You are probably going to anyway but covers on the battery's terminals or a covered battery box are a very good idea.

 

[OS2Dude]

Do you have a battery fuse? IIRC the AYBC requires a Class T fuse within 7" of the Lithium Bank. Hopefully you are aware that it is not safe to connect a lithium battery to the typical alternator to recharge it. One: Lithium will draw as much power as it can until it is fully charged and that can burn out the alternator. (Yours is small, it may not be an issue for you.) Two: Your battery's BMS will cut-off the charge source if the battery is full (Yours is small, this is much more likely.) and if the alternator is running at that time the voltage spike WILL blow the diodes and could damage anything else that is connected. (Radios, Nav equipment, etc.) An alternator with a regulator that can limit charge voltage and that can accept a signal from the BMS that it is about to shut down will work, a DC-DC charger from a FLA charged by the alternator to the LFP will work but you lose a good deal of power to heat, or just not using the alternator in any way to charge the lithium will work.

I am also in the middle of converting our 1985 Catalina 30 to a Lithium house bank. We're replacing two 98Ah AGM batteries with one EPOCH 300Ah V2 battery. The Epoch has CAN communications so it can talk directly to the Victron system via a CERBO GX. The CERBO will also allow me to see the charge status data on my NMEA2000 MFDs. 12V 300Ah V2 Heated Bluetooth LiFePO4 Battery - Epoch Essentials (epochbatteries.com)

 

[Gene Neill]

I knew nothing about those alternator issues. What to do. It only puts out about 1.5A, but still. I hate to just disconnect it.

 

[OS2Dude]

I knew nothing about those alternator issues. What to do. It only puts out about 1.5A, but still. I hate to just disconnect it.

I suggest you simply move your house circuits to the LFP and leave the existing FLA as a starting battery. Lithium batteries are usually not meant to start engines anyway. Maybe you could add a 1-B-2 selector switch to be able to combine the batteries when charging from the alternator, just keep an eye on the alternator temp and be sure to turn the selector to the FLA if your app says your LFP is almost full. (Just don't go thru NONE and make sure the selector is a MAKE BEFORE BREAK type.) I don't know how much warning the app will give before the BMS disconnects the charge source and I don't know if having the switch on Both will 1) Work; 2) Prevent the voltage spike. But it may be worth researching. I do know you don't want to leave it on Both when the alternator isn't running. Other options are a DC-DC charger or an alternator/regulator upgrade to one that can restrict the power draw and turn off when the BMS says it is about to disconnect. (See Wakespeed WS500 regulator.) I don't think the last option is viable for the small size of your LFP 'bank' due to the expense. I have heard people suggest an ACR to automate combining the banks when the alternator is running, but I don't know if that is a workable solution either.

At this time, I am simply leaving the engine and alternator on a dedicated AGM battery and charging my LFP bank from my solar array and if needed a shore power charger.

 

[dlochner]

I suggest you simply move your house circuits to the LFP and leave the existing FLA as a starting battery. Lithium batteries are usually not meant to start engines anyway. Maybe you could add a 1-B-2 selector switch to be able to combine the batteries when charging from the alternator, just keep an eye on the alternator temp and be sure to turn the selector to the FLA if your app says your LFP is almost full. (Just don't go thru NONE and make sure the selector is a MAKE BEFORE BREAK type.) I don't know how much warning the app will give before the BMS disconnects the charge source and I don't know if having the switch on Both will 1) Work; 2) Prevent the voltage spike. But it may be worth researching. I do know you don't want to leave it on Both when the alternator isn't running. Other options are a DC-DC charger or an alternator/regulator upgrade to one that can restrict the power draw and turn off when the BMS says it is about to disconnect. (See Wakespeed WS500 regulator.) I don't think the last option is viable for the small size of your LFP 'bank' due to the expense. I have heard people suggest an ACR to automate combining the banks when the alternator is running, but I don't know if that is a workable solution either.

At this time, I am simply leaving the engine and alternator on a dedicated AGM battery and charging my LFP bank from my solar array and if needed a shore power charger.

@Gene Neill has a Catalina 22 with an outboard. There is no alternator as we who have inboard engines know them. Basically the alternator on small outboards are magnetos with a rectifier, there is no regulator. If the RPMs go up, the output goes up. Given the small output of the OB the battery should be able to absorb all the current the OB is producing. I also doubt he has a separate house and start battery. If he does, the start battery might be as small as a lawn tractor battery.

There may be some risk of a BMS shut down due to an over voltage state which might compromise the rectifiers. If that should happen it could render the OB inoperable, but I don't know enough to render a definitive solution. Certainly pull starting a small outboard is not all that difficult, the issue would be providing power to the spark plug, would a blown rectifier prevent power getting to the plug?

The prudent course of action would be to disconnect the battery from the OB and use the pull start until it can be ascertained that a blown rectifier would not affect the OB's operation.

 

[AaronD]

I can TOTALLY see why that is the case. There was an episode of the TV show “Curb Your Enthusiasm” about these plastic wrapped packages and how hard they are to open.

I've long fantasized that the guy who invented those packages arrived at the ER one evening, complaining of chest pains. Whereupon the hospital staff - realizing who he was - were strangely unable to get the appropriate medicines open in time...

 

[Gene Neill]

@Gene Neill has a Catalina 22 with an outboard ...

The prudent course of action would be to disconnect the battery from the OB and use the pull start until it can be ascertained that a blown rectifier would not affect the OB's operation.

Correct, my motor has no electric start and there's only one battery, so no 1-2-both-off switch.

For now, I have disconnected the "alternator" until I have more knowledge. I hate to give up the charging source, but the 1.5A it puts out is not enough to make any elaborate system worthwhile, and definitely not worth any risk to the motor or the other electronics.

 

[...3TacksontheWater]

Glad you asked.

I'm hoping to charge it the same way we've always charged the FLA Trojan: two articulating 30W Renogy panels on a Victron controller. I deliberately ran the battery down overnight last night, and now I'm watching to see what happens. I've set the controller to the "Smart Lithium" presets, but I need to dig deeper and make sure Victron's default settings (found under "expert mode" on the controller menu) are 100% ideal for this battery. The battery manufacturer doesn't publish this data anywhere I've been able to find, so it's probably going to require some phone calls.

These are the settings as they are now:

View attachment 221532

How's the X2Power battery doing? I picked mine up yesterday and just ordered up a compliant solar controller as my old controller wasn't rated for LiFePO4's. These batteries are manufactured by Batteries Plus. I imagine they realized that there is more profit in being both the manufacture and seller than just a reseller of someone else's batteries. They certainly indicate that solar charging is the way to go:

What's the best battery for energy storage?

Learn what batteries are available for your solar energy storage system. The X2Power lithium deep-cycle batteries at Batteries Plus are the ultimate choice.

www.batteriesplus.com

Another thing I noticed when I look up the warranty is that you need to use the monitoring app as they will look to that data to determine if you've taken good care of the battery.

George

 

[Gene Neill]

How's the X2Power battery doing?

Fine, nothing new to report.