small outboard

s_demont · Mar 24, 2004

Hi Adam,

I repowered with a Yanmar 2GM20 about four years ago, and haven't regretted it. The extra power that it offers has been an advantage when I needed it. Having said that, I don't blame you for not wanting an engine. They can be noisy. But I like the convenience.

There's a few people in the association who have outboards that can give advice. I would think that an outboard under 13hp would not be very efficient when you need it the most, like running up against a strong current.

Question to you: when you do your canal trip, will you be able to post you journey to the group?

Cheers,
Steve DeMont
"Erendira"
Vega 2947
Seattle, WA

adamtait2002 abu@... wrote:
hi all... just a quicky

i know i'm in the minority, but i hate engines. especially on sailboats.
so i'm chucking mine out.
the decision i have to make is to do it now or wait until i have gone through the
french canals. so:

(i) does anybody use a *small* outboard for motoring up rivers? and how does it fair
against any current - there can be quite strong currents running in the inland
waterways of france (so i'm told)

(ii) is there anybody out there who would be interested in purchasing a second hand
Nanni 13 hp diesel inboard?

thanks all

adam

stacey94702 · Mar 24, 2004

Hey if this is the same Adam from the oar club who
gave me information about berthing in Barcelona,
thanks. I guess you are taking it seriously if you
are getting rid of your engine. There is a book
"through Europe at 4.5 knots" about a boat with an
outboard in the canals. Thay made it, but I think
with some difficulty.
Stacey

emmajen5 · Mar 24, 2004

Adam,

A Yamaha 9.9 High Thrust four stroke outboard will give as much if not
more performance than a 10 horse diesel. I know because I have both
due to the fact that the fellow I bought my Vega from couldn't make up
his mind. It came with both. I think he was on his way to eventually
removing the original Volvo MD6B though it still ran OK, although hard
to cold start. Since buying the boat I've come to terms with the
Volvo after much good advice from this list and the purchase of an
electric block heater from an auto parts store. The Yamaha is an
extra long shaft mounted low and centred on the transom with remote
controls mounted opposite the Vovo combi controls in the cockpit. The
tank and battery are mounted on a shelf in the lazerette locker. All
the lines are led out through the transom. It is quite a neat job.
The motor is geared very low to turn a very large three bladed prop at
relatively low speed. This is the "High Thrust" part of it. Yamaha
also moved the exhaust away from the prop to provide undisturbed water
while going astern. It's extremely quiet and economical and reliable.
Very easy to start. I have a two gallon tank and it's all you need
for normal use. I think it probably burns less than a litre per hour.

After saying all that, once I came to terms with the Volvo, I made a
decision to sell the Yamaha. I still don't like the look of an
outboard on the Vega and it's a lot of weight hanging out there that
must have an effect the sailing qualities (although I have yet to
notice any real problems - maybe because this the only Vega I know so
I have nothing to compare it to.) My long term plan was to start a
diesel replacement fund with seed money from the sale of the Yamaha
and nurse the Volvo along until then. That Beta sounds like just the
thing down the road. That was until I recently figured out how to put
a tiller on the Yamaha. Suddenly I have some control going astern and
in tight spots around the marina. What a pleasure that is,
especially for single handing. So now I'm back to wanting to keep it.
I think, for the time being I'll remain a two engine man: the Volvo
as the primary and the Yamaha for manoeuvring and as a back up. (in
both senses)

I sorry I got into a bit of a ramble here. What I had meant to say in
the beginning is that I think the Yamaha 9.9 (or even the 8 h.p.) High
Thrust motor would provide you with plenty of power for what you want
to do (I can obtain hull speed with probably 30% power with the
Yamaha) plus the added advantage of more manoeuvrability which I would
think in canal travel would be quite desirable.

Garry
"Raven" V. 2427

wxt8981 · Mar 24, 2004

Hi Stephen;

I see you repowered with a 2GM20 Yanmar and from what you
write, you're happy. I repowered with a 1GM10 Yanmar, and
frankly, I'm happy too!
I always wonder about the "extra power" a larger engine
gives; lets compare.
I have a 13"/8" 3 blade prop, the transmision's gear ratio
is 261:1. I run the engine at 3000 RPM (most effective),
and it pushes me at 6.5 mph. (calm sea)
What does your 20 do? Besides using more fuel? Please let
me know.

Wilhelm, V-257

s_demont · Mar 24, 2004

Hi Wilhelm,

I usually run it at around 2800 rpm, and I'm trucking along at a pretty good clip. My knot meter hasn't worked in quite a while (ha!, long story). I'd have to look up the propellor pitch in my log book, and the gearing in the Yanmar manual, which are down in Alameda with my Vega. (I'm working on getting her hauled up here to Seattle, where I'm now living, in the next couple of months.)

Sorry I can't be more specific about performance. I had the motor spec'd out by a place in Redwood City back in '97. I think it was called Peninsula Marine. They closed up shop shortly after. The engine was installed by South Bay Boat Works the same year. They, too, closed up shortly after. I think the Stanford Rowing Club bought the property. Walt and Judy Brown probably remember them.

Anyway, I know from some accounts, that the 2GM20 is probably too much power for the Vega. But, back then I had the extra thousand or so dollars to pay for the larger motor, and, seeing how I was single with no kids, I figured why not.

Downside to the larger engine is it eats up a lot of room in the engine bay. I have to remove the electrical panel and snake separate hoses into the oil and water fills. No big deal.

I'm pretty happy with it in any case. It's a lot lighter than the old MD6B. Not sure about fuel consumption, though. I have a 12 gallon tank in the port locker, and fill it/top it off every couple of months. I don't motor much except to get in/out of the harbor. I change the oil and water filter regularly. I probably have around 100 or so hours on the motor since I had it installed.

Cheers,
Steve
"Erendira"
Vega 2947

WL wxt8981@... wrote:
Hi Stephen;

I see you repowered with a 2GM20 Yanmar and from what you
write, you're happy. I repowered with a 1GM10 Yanmar, and
frankly, I'm happy too!
I always wonder about the "extra power" a larger engine
gives; lets compare.
I have a 13"/8" 3 blade prop, the transmision's gear ratio
is 261:1. I run the engine at 3000 RPM (most effective),
and it pushes me at 6.5 mph. (calm sea)
What does your 20 do? Besides using more fuel? Please let
me know.

Wilhelm, V-257

bbach1949 · Mar 24, 2004

Wilhelm: I have an older Yanmar 2 cyl in my Vega (2 GMF) - forerunner of the
2GM20. I get 6.5 knots at 2800 rpm and 7 knots at 3000 with a 14 x 9
3-blade prop. At 7 knots she's pulling a huge stern wave. I could get away with a
lower pitch. Plenty of power regardless. The single cylinder Yanmar would be
plenty for my use, but the previous owner went with the 2 cyl in order to
get fresh water cooling. He had it installed in 1984 and after 20 years it runs
great though it may be time for injector rework. Totally reliable. Brian,
the rendezvous guy, has the old Albin gas engine from my boat. I can't quite
tell what he's up to with it, maybe installing twins! One of them should run
and get him to Port Browning this year. Bill Bach, V 1071

mocap1 · Mar 24, 2004

I've motored up and down the Napa River with a 5 hp short shaft Mariner on my Vega, sailed around San Francisco Bay for a couple of years with the outboard, and now sail Mahone Bay. You don't make much speed against a head sea or strong wind, but it has always gotton me where I want to go. I sit the six gallon tank on the aft deck. A tight fit , but it works, and I keep the rest of the gas in five gallon cans in the seat lockers. However, I would certainly install a diesel if I didn't have so many boats and used the Vega more.

I just read a book by some Englishman who sailed from England across the Channel and then across Europe form the North Sea to the Black Sea in a Mirrror dnghy; did a lot of rowing. Sounded like more fun than the French Canals.

Mort

stevebirch2002 · Mar 25, 2004

Hi Wilhelm

Back to our usual chat! The difference is in the direct immediate control
(forward to reverse and vice versa) and in adverse conditions. A 1HP outboard
will give you max hull speed in perfect conditions if you gave it long enough.
Whatever you are happy with works...

The fuel consumption will probabbly be the same as it depends on how much
horsepower you use. With a larger engine you can drop the revs right back.
Just
because you have the 20HP or 13.5HP it doesent mean you have to use it all the
time.

Regards to all. Off to the Solent to launch. Will let you know how I get on.

Kind RegardsSteve Birch

At 16:22 24/03/04 -0800, you wrote:

wxt8981 · Mar 25, 2004

Hi Stephen;

I guess getting up this morning was not the right thing for
me to do: after reading your (below) e-mail I'm more
confused than ever before. Unless... that e-mail was
written for some one else but me???

Anyway, it's looking to be a nice day today- though quite
windy (has been blowing around 25 to 30 mph all week
long). I won't go sailing (my ribs haven't mended as yet),
but I plan to put-put a little bit, just to run the engine
and feel the fresh air...

Have a nice day...
Wilhelm, V-257

wxt8981 · Mar 25, 2004

Hi Steve;

I guess the main thing is you're happy with your Yanmar. I
am! Running your engine at 2800 rpm sounds right (like I
run my engine at 3000 rpm). But without any other data
it's difficult to compare performance. About speed- I have
a GPS that gives me the over-ground speed, and a VDO-Sumlog
that gives me through-the-water speed (hence I know the
speed of a current).

I installed the engine myself, it wasn't too difficult. I
do all the maintenance myself and thus far all I had to, if
you call it 'repair', change the impeller twice. That's
all.

Happy Sailing.... Wilhelm, V-257

s_demont · Mar 25, 2004

Hi Wilhelm,

My Moore knot meter went south a few years ago. The needle got warped from exposure to the sun. I bought a new one from Defender a couple of years ago, and, after fixing it to the bulkhead, I couldn't get the contact screw to unscrew, and couldn't get the electrical lead to attach to it. I've never got around to sending the unit back to Defender for an exchange. Just went sailing instead.

When I bring the boat up to Seattle I'll be keeping her on the hard for a few months to paint the hull and deck, and do a few improvements in the cabin. I'll replace the knot meter. I'm also going to install my fixed GPS system and tillerpilot that I've had stowed away for the last two years, along with a CD stereo system.

As for enginge maintenance, some of it I do myself, like changing filters and oil. When I haul out the boat, I have a mechanic come in and check the alignment, and do the other service stuff according to the manual. I usually check the cutlass bearing at this time to. If the shaft is wobbling, I have it replaced. I always buy two bearings, just in case I can't get one or if it takes to long to order one. This way I can get the boat back in the water so I'm not hanging around waiting to go sailing.

I love this boat. Everytime I think about "upgrading" to a larger boat, I have a hard time executing a plan to actually buy one. It comes down to this: a) the Vega is solid, if it ain't broke, don't fix it; b) will go anywhere a big boat will go; c) is easy to sail, especially single-handed; d) maintenance is pretty much hassle free (a big consideration, especially when thinking about "upgrading" to a larger boat, keep all systems simple (KASS a spin off of the old KISS acronym); e) mine's paid for, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg to birth. The Vega is simply a pleasure to sail. I miss sailing mine, and can't wait to get her up here from the Bay Area. Once I get her to Seattle, I want to do a few things to her before I put her back in the water, things I've put off far too long, like finally getting her topsides and deck painted--flag blue hull with blue-glo white deck. She'll be a sweet little thing on the Puget Sound. Yeah!

Cheers,
Steve

WL wxt8981@... wrote:
Hi Steve;

I guess the main thing is you're happy with your Yanmar. I
am! Running your engine at 2800 rpm sounds right (like I
run my engine at 3000 rpm). But without any other data
it's difficult to compare performance. About speed- I have
a GPS that gives me the over-ground speed, and a VDO-Sumlog
that gives me through-the-water speed (hence I know the
speed of a current).

I installed the engine myself, it wasn't too difficult. I
do all the maintenance myself and thus far all I had to, if
you call it 'repair', change the impeller twice. That's
all.

Happy Sailing.... Wilhelm, V-257

emmajen5 · Mar 25, 2004

Adam,

A Yamaha 9.9 High Thrust four stroke outboard will give as much if not
more performance than a small diesel. I know because I have both due
to the fact that the fellow I bought my Vega from couldn't make up his
mind. It came with both. I think he was on his way to eventually
removing the original Volvo MD6B though it still ran OK, although hard
to cold start. Since buying the boat I've come to terms with the
Volvo after much good advice from this list and the purchase of an
electric block heater from an auto parts store. The Yamaha is an
extra long shaft mounted low and centred on the transom with remote
controls mounted opposite the Volvo combi controls in the cockpit.
The tank and battery are mounted on a shelf in the lazerette locker.
All the lines are led out through the transom. It is quite a neat job.
The motor is geared low to turn a very large three bladed prop at
relatively low speed. This is the "High Thrust" part of it. Yamaha
also moved the exhaust away from the prop to provide undisturbed water
while going astern. It's extremely quiet and economical and reliable.
Very easy to start. I have a two gallon tank and it's all you need
for normal use. I think it probably burns less than a litre per hour.

After saying all that, once I came to terms with the Volvo, I made a
decision to sell the Yamaha. I still don't like the look of an
outboard on the Vega and it's a lot of weight hanging out there that
must have an effect the sailing qualities (although I have yet to
notice any real problems - maybe because this the only Vega I know so
I have nothing to compare it to.) My long term plan was to start a
diesel replacement fund with seed money from the sale of the Yamaha
and nurse the Volvo along until then. That Beta sounds like just the
thing down the road. That was until I recently figured out how to put
a tiller on the Yamaha. Suddenly I have some control going astern and
in tight spots around the marina. What a pleasure that is,
especially for single handing. So now I'm back to wanting to keep it.
I think, for the time being I'll remain a two engine man: the Volvo
as the primary and the Yamaha for manoeuvring and as a back up. (in
both senses)

I sorry I got into a bit of a ramble here. What I had meant to say in
the beginning is that I think the Yamaha 9.9 (or even the 8 h.p.) High
Thrust motor would provide you with plenty of power for what you want
to do (I can obtain hull speed with probably 30% power with the
Yamaha) plus the added advantage of more manoeuvrability which I would
think in canal travel would be quite desirable.

Garry
"Raven" V. 2427

rcheshire811 · Mar 30, 2004

Garry,
Is there any chance you could send me some pictures of your outboard set-up. I am mounting the outboard bracket next week and
would like to get an idea where to put it, how to route the cables to the remote, and remote placement. The tiller for the engine also
sounds neat. I am painting the bottom and I was wondering if I should raise the waterline near the stern. The boat did not come with
an engine, inboard or outboard, but the last bottom paint was with the inboard. I also have the 9.9 high thrust yamaha and was glad
to hear your comments.
Cheers,
Rob Cheshire
V-2766, "Isis"
cheshire@...

emmajen5 · Mar 30, 2004

Rob,

I'm going out to the boat today so I'll take a few pictures and send
them along later.

Garry