Slow sailing speed Hunter 356 prob?

[Jimongee]

Thanks to all of you who helped me solve my Yanmar "fai9lure to prime dilemma." It is up and running fine now.
Now I need your advice again on a much more fun problem; I have only average or less sailing skills. My wife and I owned a couple hunters over the years in the 22' range until our purchase about 2 weeks ago of this 2002 -356. It been about a decade since we sailed regularily. That said we are currently in the process of sailing the great lakes until 9/1 [por jumping and the North Channel on deck]. During the past 10 days we have had her in 10-15 knots with 20+ gusts. We logged approximately 300 miles in all and even though we had the maiin and 110 jib fully in play and fully tensioned we could never get over 4.5 knots! We kept the traveler in the center of the arch. The boat healed to nearly the rail on several ocassions throughout this multi-day voyage but we never reached the sailing crusing speed I believe the 356 should achieve. I did the best speed on a close haul as opposed to a close reach. I am sure it is due to our lack of knowledge. If any sailors could point us in the right direction-that would be good. One more thing; when I purchased the vessel the mast was down. I installed it with a crane and so the rigging [shrouds, struts, forestay, etc. was tuned by me with input from local port sailors. It seems correct and pretty near equal side to side. i did notice that durnig strong wind the leeward tall shroud is slack. My smaller boats exibited this under the same conditions, but I am not confident that the 356 should. Any tips on where to start to get better speed during good wind would be great.
Jim and Kathy in Charlevoix, MI

 

[Lee Coller]

When you say your sails were "fully tensioned" do you mean they were sheeted as far in as possible? That would be appropriate for a close haul, which would explain why you did best in that direction. As you fall off the wind you need to adjust your sails accordingly by letting the sheets out. Let them out until the sail starts to luff (the head will start flapping in the wind) and then sheet them in until they stop luffing. That will be approximately where they should be.

You might also consider hiring a professional rigger to tune the rig. From your description its too loose (and may not be balance appropriately).

For finer tuning and more details you should also check this out: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/home/spec_redirect.php?i=1583

 

[Jimongee]

Thanks,
Yes they were sheeted in as far as possible. I will take your advice and see if I can find a professional rigger.
Jim

 

[Bad Obsession]

When was the boat last hauled? You can loose some boat speed to fouled prop and a fouled bottom. I lost about a knot to those things before I went for a swim and scrubbed the bottom earlier this summer. It probably needs it again too!

 

[seadaddler]

Reefing

The 356 /36 does not like too much heeling and will not perform well,next time reef and she will speed up but the rigging needs to be properly tuned also and cclean bottom.
Nick

 

[Joe]

when in doubt....... let it out. Ease the sails till they start to luff, then trim. Or install a set of telltales.

 

[Jimongee]

Thanks to all of you. The boat was just put in about 10 days ago. The bottom is pristine. the prop was pristine at that point. I will try the reefing recommendation. By any chance...would there happen to be an experienced [sailing and 356] owner in the Charlevoix, Mackinaw or Traverse city area who wouldn't mind my wife and I showing up for a few questions. I would certainly pop fior dinner. And if anyone has a contact # for a rigging professional in the same MI area-that would be great just in case...

thanks again,
Jim

 

[onecoolair]

Jim......I have a 2002 356 also. Bought new. All the advise posted so far is right on. In my younger days I did a lot of sailboat racing and offshore cruising ,racing. Very useful in learning proper sail trim. Sail Boats all sizes and types, single handed etc. Plus I cruise and day sail single handed a lot. Check with your local hunter dealer about getting the rig properly tuned. Remember this boat as no back stay and tunes differently. Your insurer will not be happy if you lose the rig because it was not tuned according to manufactures specs..
The 356 does not like a lot weather helm. At 15 to 20 I start to reef or just feather out main on short runs. More then 20 knots I sometimes just use the jib she seems to go just as fast and points really well. The roller fulling main as iinfinite reaf points. just balance out the helm with just a bit of weather win sailing on the wind. She loves a good reach.
Now if you want to hear some of the issues to watch out for like I have had to deal with and I am currently in the middle of solving right now. I can share here or in private. Plus I can share pictures and info on of some of my fixes and up grades.
Enjoy your new boat!
good luck

 

[DannyofRockledge]

I am vacationing up there in late August, very excited ! cant wait to sample some hudsonville grand traverse cherry fudge ice cream and some lake superior pan fried whitefish, maybe even go back to leelanau (fishtown) and enjoy a "chubby mary"
Sorry to drift off subject everyone.

 

[356_Steve]

I am at Port Huron Yacth Club with my 2003 356. How about getting together on my boat or yours, and we can try to get more speed for you. I am getting mine ready for the Mac in a couple weeks, and then will be gone cruising for a couple weeks. If this Wednesday afternoon or Sunday works, let me know.

Steve

 

[chuckwayne]

Your rig is set up wrong-the leeward stay should never be slack. You can download the selden tuning guide for the B&R rig from Hunter or selden. You use the inners to set up the pre-bend-usually done with the mast unstepped- and then adjust the outers and forestay to set mast rake. Pre-bend should be about 6" for a conventional furling rig, and only 2" for in-mast. The 356 like to sail flat, 10 degrees is optimal. you should reef or use the traveller to de-power the main if you don't reef. sail trim should give you a near neutral (slight weather ) helm for best performance. If you've got the stock UK sails, they seem to like to be trimmed flat to perform best. Finally, the keel and rudder foils need water flow to generate lift, so be careful not to stall the boat by pinching or overtrimming.

 

[Joe]

Your rig is set up wrong-the leeward stay should never be slack. .......etc..

Chuck, Just wanted to jump in and suggest that adjusting the slack leeward stay while sailing is part of the tuning process.... Initial adjustments at the dock.... then fine tune on the water.. Count the turns when adjusting the slack leeward shroud and apply the same number to the opposing stay...to keep the mast balanced.

I'll qualify my comment by saying, I have no experience with the B&R rig... (I have sailed a number of boats with no backstay).... so.... if I'm totally wrong on this... slap me.

 

[Bill Murray]

I am in Charlevoix - leaving for Norrth Channel day after tomorrow for two weeks. I will be in Charlevoix area rest of the summer. E-mail me back if you want to connect. I have a H410 - different boat but very similar B&R rig.

 

[chuckwayne]

Joe, that's one way to fine tune-usually we do the static setup with a guage-set for 15% of the rated max load for the stay, making sure the mast stays straight.hoist a tape up the mast and compare the distances to the chainplates. then, under sail, do as you suggest.

 

[tkanzler]

Your rig is set up wrong-the leeward stay should never be slack. You can download the selden tuning guide for the B&R rig from Hunter or selden. You use the inners to set up the pre-bend-usually done with the mast unstepped- and then adjust the outers and forestay to set mast rake. Pre-bend should be about 6" for a conventional furling rig, and only 2" for in-mast. The 356 like to sail flat, 10 degrees is optimal. you should reef or use the traveller to de-power the main if you don't reef. sail trim should give you a near neutral (slight weather ) helm for best performance. If you've got the stock UK sails, they seem to like to be trimmed flat to perform best. Finally, the keel and rudder foils need water flow to generate lift, so be careful not to stall the boat by pinching or overtrimming.

Everything he said applied to my H340 perfectly. It had a giant main and puny jib, and liked to sail flat. It was fun to lay the rail in the water, but the fastest I ever sailed it was with 2 reefs in the main, and the jib furled in a little. It would do this consistently. With a tall mast and 2+2 batten main with big roach, it was tender, so it was important for any real performance to reef early, and reef often.

If you notice you're hanging onto the wheel to keep it going where you want it to go, you need to trim the sails to balance the helm, maybe with just a touch of weather helm. That barn door of a rudder, dragging through the water at a steep angle, is only slowing you down. Same for the keel, with the boat side slipping (leeway?). And there's too much hull in the water when it's heeled like that. Besides, most of the admirals I know also don't care for that sort of sailing, but that's a personal (or personnel) issue.

I'd start with using the right sails, or the right amount of sail in the case of furling/reefing, as a starting point, along with balancing the helm. Then work on sheeting and traveler trim to get it into the sweet spot. I was amazed at how fast my boat would go the first time I happened onto the sweet spot. I used it more like a station wagon than a sports car, but it would move along smartly when trimmed correctly, and for a long trip, it can shave a lot of time off. Plus it's more fun - what's the point of sailing if you can't eek out that last little bit of performance, especially when there's another boat going the same way.