The wife and I have decided to cash out, buy a sailboat, and raise our kids on the water. I have some experience working on boats mostly woodies. We are looking at boats around 40'. Question. Are ketch rig boats crewable with two people? Are sloop rigs significantly simpler to sail or will the extra options of the ketch outweigh the extra stuff to do? My sailing experience has been boat rides and racing a 16'er on a small lake. I will be getting trained up in running the new (to us) boat. My kids are girl 6yrs boy 3yrs so they won't be a huge help for a while. Any input from all of you with experience will be greatly appreceated.
sloop vs ketch
- Thread starter troyboat
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test the waters first
While I can't speak to the sailing/ease of handling differences between a cutter and a sloop, I can make some other recommendations. Ditching the land life and living on a boat, especially with two small kids, isn't like moving from a 2 bedroom condo to a 3 bedroom house. It is an entirely different lifestyle. Some people readily adapt and others HATE it and want land back. I've seen people bail out in the middle of a one week charter because they couldn't handle life on a boat for even that short a period of time. You might want to try chartering a few times, in different styles of boats, to determine what you, your wife and the kids are comfortable in and can handle. In doing so, you will probably develop some pretty strong preferences about what you think the ideal live-aboard boat should have. You mentioned that YOU will be getting trained on the new boat. How about your wife? She also needs to fully understand the operation of the boat. All too often, I've heard wife sailing students say, 'I don't need to know how to do that; Fred knows.' But what if Fred has a heart attack or falls off the boat or hits his head or whatever? It is critical that you are both capable of handling the boat, especially when the lives of two small kids are at stake. And the kids are getting old enough to start some basic training, too. At 4 my daughter knew that if someone was drowning, she was supposed to throw them something that floated. Good luck to you, and congrats on having the courage to do what others only dream of.
While I can't speak to the sailing/ease of handling differences between a cutter and a sloop, I can make some other recommendations. Ditching the land life and living on a boat, especially with two small kids, isn't like moving from a 2 bedroom condo to a 3 bedroom house. It is an entirely different lifestyle. Some people readily adapt and others HATE it and want land back. I've seen people bail out in the middle of a one week charter because they couldn't handle life on a boat for even that short a period of time. You might want to try chartering a few times, in different styles of boats, to determine what you, your wife and the kids are comfortable in and can handle. In doing so, you will probably develop some pretty strong preferences about what you think the ideal live-aboard boat should have. You mentioned that YOU will be getting trained on the new boat. How about your wife? She also needs to fully understand the operation of the boat. All too often, I've heard wife sailing students say, 'I don't need to know how to do that; Fred knows.' But what if Fred has a heart attack or falls off the boat or hits his head or whatever? It is critical that you are both capable of handling the boat, especially when the lives of two small kids are at stake. And the kids are getting old enough to start some basic training, too. At 4 my daughter knew that if someone was drowning, she was supposed to throw them something that floated. Good luck to you, and congrats on having the courage to do what others only dream of.
Go Slow or Maybe Not
Let me first respond to the question you asked. One big argument for the ketch is that the sail plan is split between the main and mizzen permitting smaller, more easily handled sails which is particularly important in shorthanded long cruises. The second big argument for the ketch is the variety of sail plan options you have as the wind increases, including just sailing under jib and mizzen. The negative on the ketch is there's another mast, another sail, more rigging, stuff to go wrong and maintain--read expense--and more sail trimming to do. You'll find a lot of ketches made in the 80's and not very many any more. Furling mains, electric winches, battcars, etc. have made handling larger sails easier and many people didn't want to screw around with a mizzen. I personally happen to love the look of a ketch rig though I own a sloop. Regarding your decision to go cruising, it sounds exciting and romantic and if that's really what you want to do, by all means do it. There's a wonderful book out called Sensible Cruising by Don Casey and Lew Hackler that's probably for sale in the chandlery on this site. It sounds as though you have some pretty limited experience so far. They would probably suggest that you make sure you like the reality of cruising as much as you like the idea of cruising before you sell out and head out onto the ocean with your family. So would I. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust h37.5
Let me first respond to the question you asked. One big argument for the ketch is that the sail plan is split between the main and mizzen permitting smaller, more easily handled sails which is particularly important in shorthanded long cruises. The second big argument for the ketch is the variety of sail plan options you have as the wind increases, including just sailing under jib and mizzen. The negative on the ketch is there's another mast, another sail, more rigging, stuff to go wrong and maintain--read expense--and more sail trimming to do. You'll find a lot of ketches made in the 80's and not very many any more. Furling mains, electric winches, battcars, etc. have made handling larger sails easier and many people didn't want to screw around with a mizzen. I personally happen to love the look of a ketch rig though I own a sloop. Regarding your decision to go cruising, it sounds exciting and romantic and if that's really what you want to do, by all means do it. There's a wonderful book out called Sensible Cruising by Don Casey and Lew Hackler that's probably for sale in the chandlery on this site. It sounds as though you have some pretty limited experience so far. They would probably suggest that you make sure you like the reality of cruising as much as you like the idea of cruising before you sell out and head out onto the ocean with your family. So would I. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust h37.5
Welcome to the forum, troyboat!
I'm green with envy
and commend you on taking the plunge that I haven't had the guts to! You will shortly be getting plenty of answers to your question, since it is one of those for which almost everybody has an opinion. For my money, the only answer is..... it depends. I know of a 74' ketch that can be sailed by a couple (go to www.yachtworld.com and type 'deerfoot' into the manufacturer box) and there are plenty of 40' sloops on which you'd rather have a larger crew. It depends on where you are and where you plan to go.... If you want to really throw off the shackles and cruise/voyage/circumnavigate (my green of envy deepens) then your boat choice will be based on a large number of factors, most notably how many zeros you are cashing out with. ;D One of the things I would suggest to do before you go buy a boat: Read as much as you can. I started with The Voyagers Handbook by Beth Lonard How to Sail Around the World by Hal Roth Cruising Encyclopedia by Linda and Steve Dashew Ready for Sea by Tor Pinney World Cruising Essentials by Jimmy Cornell Several of these books have discussions about what to expect with children aboard - I know the Dashews raised their kids on boats. There are also many other books At the bottom of this post is a link to a long list of books on cruising. This site also has a book section in their chandlery with a wide selection. And if you're serious about voyaging (sailing long distances over blue water to exotic locations) I suggest you read Surviving the Storm by Steve and Linda Dashew This book will let you know the worst-case scenario and how to deal with it. Please don't take anything I have said negatively - I really do envy you! I have 4 teenagers and 7 years to go before my wife and I will be free and can cast off and head west. Another resource you can tap into is the Seven Seas Cruising Association (SSCA.org) which is directed more towards cruising/voyaging topics. OK, that's enough wind from me. Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
I'm green with envy
and commend you on taking the plunge that I haven't had the guts to! You will shortly be getting plenty of answers to your question, since it is one of those for which almost everybody has an opinion. For my money, the only answer is..... it depends. I know of a 74' ketch that can be sailed by a couple (go to www.yachtworld.com and type 'deerfoot' into the manufacturer box) and there are plenty of 40' sloops on which you'd rather have a larger crew. It depends on where you are and where you plan to go.... If you want to really throw off the shackles and cruise/voyage/circumnavigate (my green of envy deepens) then your boat choice will be based on a large number of factors, most notably how many zeros you are cashing out with. ;D One of the things I would suggest to do before you go buy a boat: Read as much as you can. I started with The Voyagers Handbook by Beth Lonard How to Sail Around the World by Hal Roth Cruising Encyclopedia by Linda and Steve Dashew Ready for Sea by Tor Pinney World Cruising Essentials by Jimmy Cornell Several of these books have discussions about what to expect with children aboard - I know the Dashews raised their kids on boats. There are also many other books At the bottom of this post is a link to a long list of books on cruising. This site also has a book section in their chandlery with a wide selection. And if you're serious about voyaging (sailing long distances over blue water to exotic locations) I suggest you read Surviving the Storm by Steve and Linda Dashew This book will let you know the worst-case scenario and how to deal with it. Please don't take anything I have said negatively - I really do envy you! I have 4 teenagers and 7 years to go before my wife and I will be free and can cast off and head west. Another resource you can tap into is the Seven Seas Cruising Association (SSCA.org) which is directed more towards cruising/voyaging topics. OK, that's enough wind from me. Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8Agreed
Congratulations on your decision... if it was 100% also agreed to by your Admiral. If Momma an't happy, ain't nobody gonna be happy. My wife and I looked at quality ketches and yawls with the same questions you have for a boat in the 40-44ft range. After looking at available boats and walking around on deck, simulating sailing chores and conditions, we opted for the sloop for the reason of simplicity. Less rigging means less maintenance, more reliability. It means having more uncluttered deck space for life rafts, dinghies, etc. Older sloops can be upgraded to have the conveniences of modern boats that make them so much easier to sail in all conditions. You do give up the options of multiple sail plans to balance the boat for different wind conditions, but for a crew of two I still think it best to have only one or two sails to consider and trim or reef or furl because one of the two crew is likely to be sick or sleeping exhausted when change is needed. Sometimes speed in reefing or furling is very important in weather or wave conditions. Absolutely don't go cruising without your wife knowing as much about sailing the boat as you do so she can get you safely to port if badly injured or ill. My heart condition came on unexpected and sudden, just months after a clean bill of health during an annual exam. Think of Murphy. Everyone who has sailed for a length of time knows Murphy... the mysterious force that causes things to go bad at the worst possible moment. Simply because sloops are in such demand recently, the price of a ketch might be lower on an older boat in the 40' range, thus offsetting some of the maintenance costs. But the additional maintenance and space required go on forever. Good luck and happy sailing.
Congratulations on your decision... if it was 100% also agreed to by your Admiral. If Momma an't happy, ain't nobody gonna be happy. My wife and I looked at quality ketches and yawls with the same questions you have for a boat in the 40-44ft range. After looking at available boats and walking around on deck, simulating sailing chores and conditions, we opted for the sloop for the reason of simplicity. Less rigging means less maintenance, more reliability. It means having more uncluttered deck space for life rafts, dinghies, etc. Older sloops can be upgraded to have the conveniences of modern boats that make them so much easier to sail in all conditions. You do give up the options of multiple sail plans to balance the boat for different wind conditions, but for a crew of two I still think it best to have only one or two sails to consider and trim or reef or furl because one of the two crew is likely to be sick or sleeping exhausted when change is needed. Sometimes speed in reefing or furling is very important in weather or wave conditions. Absolutely don't go cruising without your wife knowing as much about sailing the boat as you do so she can get you safely to port if badly injured or ill. My heart condition came on unexpected and sudden, just months after a clean bill of health during an annual exam. Think of Murphy. Everyone who has sailed for a length of time knows Murphy... the mysterious force that causes things to go bad at the worst possible moment. Simply because sloops are in such demand recently, the price of a ketch might be lower on an older boat in the 40' range, thus offsetting some of the maintenance costs. But the additional maintenance and space required go on forever. Good luck and happy sailing.
Congrats
This sounds wonderful and exciting. Just to throw a teacher's two cents in (took a break from bulletin boards)Don't forget school. You will need to homeschool the 6 yr. old. You will also need to have someone approve the portfolio depending on your state. The NCLB law has tightened up rules on school and who can deliver instruction - this of course also depends on the hoops your state requires. Even if you don't come back to land - your kids eventually do if they want to go to college. Just be sure to know what the requirements are so you don't have to deal with it later. Also due to space figure out how you will procure reading material. 6 year olds that are learning to read need lots of print! I think this is a marvelous opportunity for your kids! Enjoy.
This sounds wonderful and exciting. Just to throw a teacher's two cents in (took a break from bulletin boards
)Don't forget school. You will need to homeschool the 6 yr. old. You will also need to have someone approve the portfolio depending on your state. The NCLB law has tightened up rules on school and who can deliver instruction - this of course also depends on the hoops your state requires. Even if you don't come back to land - your kids eventually do if they want to go to college. Just be sure to know what the requirements are so you don't have to deal with it later. Also due to space figure out how you will procure reading material. 6 year olds that are learning to read need lots of print! I think this is a marvelous opportunity for your kids! Enjoy.Fairly Simple
It is really quite simple. If you are short handed ie crew of 2 most of the time a ketch is best if you need a boat 33 feet or larger. The sails increase in size as your boat gets larger and can become difficult to handle in bad weather. The ketch breaks up your sails into smaller size as well as gives more options when sailing. It has more rigging to maintain but its rig is almost always stronger. My 33 feet ketch was perfect for one person which was about 90% of my sailing. With 4 people to accomidate you need at least 36 feet minimum so a cutter rigged ketch sounds like what you need.
It is really quite simple. If you are short handed ie crew of 2 most of the time a ketch is best if you need a boat 33 feet or larger. The sails increase in size as your boat gets larger and can become difficult to handle in bad weather. The ketch breaks up your sails into smaller size as well as gives more options when sailing. It has more rigging to maintain but its rig is almost always stronger. My 33 feet ketch was perfect for one person which was about 90% of my sailing. With 4 people to accomidate you need at least 36 feet minimum so a cutter rigged ketch sounds like what you need.
everybody's right....
but I still would add, or repeat these suggestions: -- Two adults in good condition can handle a sloop, ketch, yawl or cutter. -- A sloop is usually (not always) simpler, but requires more physical strength unless you add a lot of expensive stuff (that can break). -- The rigs with additional sails reduce the size of most sails, make it physically easier to deal with in all conditions, and provide more options if something goes wrong. -- Any training you get, your wife should get too. A good set of courses through bare-boat, including navigation, would benefit everyone. She's going to be at the helm half the time, and all the time when you go overboard (God forbid). Not just training, but time at the helm and experience enough to be comfortable. You'll end up dividing chores according to your individual skills, but cruising requires everyone on board know what they are doing in all circumstances. -- I assume the children can swim, but remember to teach and enforce the safety rules, and encourage them to learn how to contribute as deck hands. -- Make sure the captain shares the crappy chores. Mutiny is an ugly thing. Winter on the Pacific Coast of Mexico is a wonderful place to find crusing families, and gain experience for bigger adventures. You will love this experience and I applaud you for doing it now. Your kids (and you) will reap great benefits. Fair winds, Sanders
but I still would add, or repeat these suggestions: -- Two adults in good condition can handle a sloop, ketch, yawl or cutter. -- A sloop is usually (not always) simpler, but requires more physical strength unless you add a lot of expensive stuff (that can break). -- The rigs with additional sails reduce the size of most sails, make it physically easier to deal with in all conditions, and provide more options if something goes wrong. -- Any training you get, your wife should get too. A good set of courses through bare-boat, including navigation, would benefit everyone. She's going to be at the helm half the time, and all the time when you go overboard (God forbid). Not just training, but time at the helm and experience enough to be comfortable. You'll end up dividing chores according to your individual skills, but cruising requires everyone on board know what they are doing in all circumstances. -- I assume the children can swim, but remember to teach and enforce the safety rules, and encourage them to learn how to contribute as deck hands. -- Make sure the captain shares the crappy chores. Mutiny is an ugly thing. Winter on the Pacific Coast of Mexico is a wonderful place to find crusing families, and gain experience for bigger adventures. You will love this experience and I applaud you for doing it now. Your kids (and you) will reap great benefits. Fair winds, Sanders
"Take A Moment--Think Kids!!"
Troyboat--Have you had the chance to sail any time with the children on board? In my thirties, I decided we needed to get into sailing as a family thing and my sons age 4 and 7 would grow up being the next Dennis Conner's. Was I Wrong! They hated it and me also. It was a hard ship on my wife coping with them and nothing but nothing made them happy. Inside the cabin looked like Toy's R Us. It appears the right age to sail with children is when they are older than 12-14 and that way they can bring their friends, bikini's and Ipods etc. I would suggest 3 trips out on a smaller boat say maybe a 1/2 day and 2 full days to see them responce. Don't forget, your moving a good size sail boat and you can't keep the kids below deck all the time. If you can't find a test boat, buy 4 tickets on Greyhound from Washington DC to Los Angeles. Survive that and your in but you'll need a set of eyes in the back of your head to watch those little ones.
Troyboat--Have you had the chance to sail any time with the children on board? In my thirties, I decided we needed to get into sailing as a family thing and my sons age 4 and 7 would grow up being the next Dennis Conner's. Was I Wrong! They hated it and me also. It was a hard ship on my wife coping with them and nothing but nothing made them happy. Inside the cabin looked like Toy's R Us. It appears the right age to sail with children is when they are older than 12-14 and that way they can bring their friends, bikini's and Ipods etc. I would suggest 3 trips out on a smaller boat say maybe a 1/2 day and 2 full days to see them responce. Don't forget, your moving a good size sail boat and you can't keep the kids below deck all the time. If you can't find a test boat, buy 4 tickets on Greyhound from Washington DC to Los Angeles. Survive that and your in but you'll need a set of eyes in the back of your head to watch those little ones.
best people in the world
Thank all of you for your threads. This is an incredibly bouyant feeling I have in my heart to know that in a few long months I will be one of you. To get this many responses to my questions in one day made me and the admiral verklempt. Sanders,Night Sailor, Gary, Sherry; your point about the admiral learning evreything I do was taken well. We will do all training classes together. We will be setting up the boat in Moorhead NC where there is a community college and various other schools that are reasonably priced. Bob, there are only four zero0s but the first number is a good one. I have no delusions about how much things cost, but the boat I'm looking at will wipe out only half of it. I know I will have to work but not all year. Another fourth will go to making the boat ship shape. My mother lives in Moorhead in too big of a house and she is looking forward to having us for a couple months while I deal with the boat. Sanders, Kenny, yours and Bob's comments on the ketch rig pretty much decided the issue for me. A ketch it will be unless an unbelievable deal on a sloop comes up that has my surveyer's blessing. Sandi we've thought of that already. the schools we have here(Eagle county CO) are poor at best. The admiral has been doing the research necessary to homeschool and we were going to do that regardless of where we ended up. I can't stand watching my kids endure the typical mundane childhood that 99% of kids in America do. You people are fantastic. TB
Thank all of you for your threads. This is an incredibly bouyant feeling I have in my heart to know that in a few long months I will be one of you. To get this many responses to my questions in one day made me and the admiral verklempt. Sanders,Night Sailor, Gary, Sherry; your point about the admiral learning evreything I do was taken well. We will do all training classes together. We will be setting up the boat in Moorhead NC where there is a community college and various other schools that are reasonably priced. Bob, there are only four zero0s but the first number is a good one. I have no delusions about how much things cost, but the boat I'm looking at will wipe out only half of it. I know I will have to work but not all year. Another fourth will go to making the boat ship shape. My mother lives in Moorhead in too big of a house and she is looking forward to having us for a couple months while I deal with the boat. Sanders, Kenny, yours and Bob's comments on the ketch rig pretty much decided the issue for me. A ketch it will be unless an unbelievable deal on a sloop comes up that has my surveyer's blessing. Sandi we've thought of that already. the schools we have here(Eagle county CO) are poor at best. The admiral has been doing the research necessary to homeschool and we were going to do that regardless of where we ended up. I can't stand watching my kids endure the typical mundane childhood that 99% of kids in America do. You people are fantastic. TB
Whats your intended sailing area?
A sloop is designed for optimal upwind sailing (pointing). A cutter is designed for reaching. A ketch is designed for more direct downwind sailing in mind. For 'tradewind' sailing a cutter is probably the best all-around. Most long distance 'voyager' boats tend to be cutters (or solent rigged sloops), because of the 'versatility' of the sail plan. Ketches dont go 'upwind' very well because the mizzen is quite ineffective at that sailing angle (blanketed by the genoa and main). With 'modern' sail material (less stretch) there is no real reason to 'divide' the foretriangle in a cutter ... so that leaves the fractional rigged sloop or solent rigged sloop as probably the most versatile and easiest to handle.
A sloop is designed for optimal upwind sailing (pointing). A cutter is designed for reaching. A ketch is designed for more direct downwind sailing in mind. For 'tradewind' sailing a cutter is probably the best all-around. Most long distance 'voyager' boats tend to be cutters (or solent rigged sloops), because of the 'versatility' of the sail plan. Ketches dont go 'upwind' very well because the mizzen is quite ineffective at that sailing angle (blanketed by the genoa and main). With 'modern' sail material (less stretch) there is no real reason to 'divide' the foretriangle in a cutter ... so that leaves the fractional rigged sloop or solent rigged sloop as probably the most versatile and easiest to handle.
1 vote for sloop
my vote is for a sloop. I have a hunter 430, which I normally sail singlehand or shorthand, but admittedly no nonstop passages over 500 miles yet. yes I use the elect winch to raise the main and roller furling for jib. I also use autopilot, chartplotter, gps and radar. I like the modern conveniences as they greatly expand what I can do and what I am comfortable with. personally i find the sloop, simpler to understand and thus adjust. there are a lot of reasons why so many are made today for so many different purposes.
my vote is for a sloop. I have a hunter 430, which I normally sail singlehand or shorthand, but admittedly no nonstop passages over 500 miles yet. yes I use the elect winch to raise the main and roller furling for jib. I also use autopilot, chartplotter, gps and radar. I like the modern conveniences as they greatly expand what I can do and what I am comfortable with. personally i find the sloop, simpler to understand and thus adjust. there are a lot of reasons why so many are made today for so many different purposes.
We Live Aboard with Child
In 1983 we sold our house in Atlanta, had a garage sail and put some possessions in storage to fulfill a burning desire to cruise and liveaboard. Our son was three years old then. Although we owned and sailed many small (22-25ft) boats on Lake Lanier, Georgia, we first set out to "drownproof" our son and acclimate to smaller spaces. Although my wife was not big on blue water sailing she did welcome the challenge of an alternate lifestyle and handled it just fine. We purchased a 35 Coronado mid-ship helm sloop that had a flat deck and plenty of liveaboard room below. It was a "liberty ship with a mast on it"! It was rather simple; we put three years of boat payments in escrow after our deposit and lived rather well within our monthly budget with time taken for shore excursions, even an occasional car rental or weekend trip inland. For our son, we first set up netting around the lifelines, and made a rule that while on deck our son will wear a preserver and a lifeline. Under power the lifeline came off. We lived aboard for over two years, traveled over 2,500 miles, experienced everything from being chased by a shark in our dinghy to riding out three hurrincanes at dock. It would take a book to describe the adventure, BUT I will leave you with this as an inspiration. Sailing off the west coast of Florida outside of Tampa Bay my son was standing on deck holding on to the upper lifeline as he always did, when suddenly a pod of dolphins came close. An infant dolphin was in the pod and its parent nudged the baby over very close to the boat where my son and the infant was making eye contact for what seemed like hours. A moment in time that will always stand alone for me. That experience alone made the whole trip worth it. Children can and will acclimate onboard. For me it was a dream that came true and I would encourage anyone to pursue their dreams. Its alot easier then folks think to just get up and go. I bounced back with no effort and found that great and "scarey" unleashing of those earthly bounds as simple as getting onboard and moving! We met many older retired folks who were cruising and many wished they would have just done it when they were younger. Today our kids are grown, we still sail together as a family and my wife and I decided, to liveaboard and cruise again. Our goal is to be on the coast within two years. Come on, jump in the water is just fine! By the way, my vote is for a sloop. A lot less work. Regards Bob Lake Lanier, GA
In 1983 we sold our house in Atlanta, had a garage sail and put some possessions in storage to fulfill a burning desire to cruise and liveaboard. Our son was three years old then. Although we owned and sailed many small (22-25ft) boats on Lake Lanier, Georgia, we first set out to "drownproof" our son and acclimate to smaller spaces. Although my wife was not big on blue water sailing she did welcome the challenge of an alternate lifestyle and handled it just fine. We purchased a 35 Coronado mid-ship helm sloop that had a flat deck and plenty of liveaboard room below. It was a "liberty ship with a mast on it"! It was rather simple; we put three years of boat payments in escrow after our deposit and lived rather well within our monthly budget with time taken for shore excursions, even an occasional car rental or weekend trip inland. For our son, we first set up netting around the lifelines, and made a rule that while on deck our son will wear a preserver and a lifeline. Under power the lifeline came off. We lived aboard for over two years, traveled over 2,500 miles, experienced everything from being chased by a shark in our dinghy to riding out three hurrincanes at dock. It would take a book to describe the adventure, BUT I will leave you with this as an inspiration. Sailing off the west coast of Florida outside of Tampa Bay my son was standing on deck holding on to the upper lifeline as he always did, when suddenly a pod of dolphins came close. An infant dolphin was in the pod and its parent nudged the baby over very close to the boat where my son and the infant was making eye contact for what seemed like hours. A moment in time that will always stand alone for me. That experience alone made the whole trip worth it. Children can and will acclimate onboard. For me it was a dream that came true and I would encourage anyone to pursue their dreams. Its alot easier then folks think to just get up and go. I bounced back with no effort and found that great and "scarey" unleashing of those earthly bounds as simple as getting onboard and moving! We met many older retired folks who were cruising and many wished they would have just done it when they were younger. Today our kids are grown, we still sail together as a family and my wife and I decided, to liveaboard and cruise again. Our goal is to be on the coast within two years. Come on, jump in the water is just fine! By the way, my vote is for a sloop. A lot less work. Regards Bob Lake Lanier, GA
For more on the theory of Ketch/Yawl/Sloop...
I believe a big portion of Harold Calahan's "Learning to Cruise" (1937) which is part of the "Yachtsman's Omnibus" (reprinted until around 1975) dealt with the theory of the sail plans for cruising boats. Keep in mind that the various design features of that era--gaff rigs, wooden hulls, wooden spars, canvas sails, full keels--taken together make all the difference in how a sailplan will perform versus today's technologies.
I believe a big portion of Harold Calahan's "Learning to Cruise" (1937) which is part of the "Yachtsman's Omnibus" (reprinted until around 1975) dealt with the theory of the sail plans for cruising boats. Keep in mind that the various design features of that era--gaff rigs, wooden hulls, wooden spars, canvas sails, full keels--taken together make all the difference in how a sailplan will perform versus today's technologies.
Again, everyone is right.
Just remember the most important part; test the kids. Do that first. If they don't like it, it's all over for you until they are grown and gone. Also keep in mind that no matter how great life is on a boat, everything is harder to do. You know,, everything! Even putting the groceries away. Most of us here love it. Don't forget to have fun!
Just remember the most important part; test the kids. Do that first. If they don't like it, it's all over for you until they are grown and gone. Also keep in mind that no matter how great life is on a boat, everything is harder to do. You know,, everything! Even putting the groceries away. Most of us here love it. Don't forget to have fun!
Don't forget possible bridges
No one has mentioned bridges. Since a ketch/yawl/schooner divides the sails into more pieces, they will have shorter masts. Depending on where you are sailing, the height of the mast on a 40+ ft sloop may limit your passage under low bridges. Of course, this would be more important if we were talking 50+ ft sloops, but you should be aware of where you want to sail. Good luck and add some green envy for me. Jim
No one has mentioned bridges. Since a ketch/yawl/schooner divides the sails into more pieces, they will have shorter masts. Depending on where you are sailing, the height of the mast on a 40+ ft sloop may limit your passage under low bridges. Of course, this would be more important if we were talking 50+ ft sloops, but you should be aware of where you want to sail. Good luck and add some green envy for me. Jim
Ketch vs ?
I don't disagree with any of the above, but I must say that one of the very best rigs I've ever sailed was a CT-41 ketch I delivered from Guam to Ponape, Eastern Carolines, many years ago. It set a 110% genny on the forestay (end of bowsprit) with no inner staysails. The mizzen sheet rode a horse about 4' long. My son and two of his friends, none with blue water experience, crewed. For a little over 1000 miles, with a stop at Truk, we had 12 to 20 kts of wind close and beam reaching in patchy weather and moderate seas - admittedly not an acid test for boat or crew, but a beautiful couple of weeks. At sundown every day I doused the main, noting that if we were doing 5 kts or better, that only cost us 1/2 kt or so, and eased the heel by about 10 deg. Well worth the peace of mind. Anyway, the mizzen was trimmed slightly flatter than the main and wasn't touched again for the trip. The main could be set and furled smartly by one man even in a squall. The genny, occupying that big foretriangle, drove the boat. Roller furling was quite rare at that time and I didn't miss it, but of course would be a valuable addition. If I were to design a boat for myself for offshore cruising, it would be about 40 ft. and would have that rig.
I don't disagree with any of the above, but I must say that one of the very best rigs I've ever sailed was a CT-41 ketch I delivered from Guam to Ponape, Eastern Carolines, many years ago. It set a 110% genny on the forestay (end of bowsprit) with no inner staysails. The mizzen sheet rode a horse about 4' long. My son and two of his friends, none with blue water experience, crewed. For a little over 1000 miles, with a stop at Truk, we had 12 to 20 kts of wind close and beam reaching in patchy weather and moderate seas - admittedly not an acid test for boat or crew, but a beautiful couple of weeks. At sundown every day I doused the main, noting that if we were doing 5 kts or better, that only cost us 1/2 kt or so, and eased the heel by about 10 deg. Well worth the peace of mind. Anyway, the mizzen was trimmed slightly flatter than the main and wasn't touched again for the trip. The main could be set and furled smartly by one man even in a squall. The genny, occupying that big foretriangle, drove the boat. Roller furling was quite rare at that time and I didn't miss it, but of course would be a valuable addition. If I were to design a boat for myself for offshore cruising, it would be about 40 ft. and would have that rig.
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