Skinny water fixed keel sailors - how does draft and depth impact your purchase, your marina choice, and your purchase decision?

[Banooma]

I love my Catalina 28 for its 3'8" draft and how well it suits Barnegat Bay NJ with 4-6 crew, but the interior is rapidly shrinking by the minute as my 10 and 11 year olds continue to grow like weeds. We have overnighted on her at times, but she has mostly been used as a daysailer. We are interested on expanding our sailing as well as expanding use of it as a vacation home, which brings us to the hunt for a new boat and the next couple of questions for you all.

The water outside my marina is notoriously skinny - such that the sailors with their gorgeous 32'+ boats are typically using their cockpits as porches on many perfect days while the smaller and less drafty boats like ours motor out the lagoon - presumably because they are waiting out the tide.

I love not having the tide factor into my sailing decision - when I want to sail, I want to sail - not to wait on the tide to get out and to get back in. If I can help it, I would like to continue this as best I can, but the shoal draft keel on many boats not IP or Catalina usually seem to get to about 5' once the LOA hits around 33' or so.

So my question for the general skinny water sailing community is this - Do you generally decide on boat size/capacity or performance, and let the boat purchase and marina decision follow? If not, how do you find your balance?

For those of you sailing Barnegat Bay (or similar skinny water) with deeper draft boats, do you feel you make sacrifices to your sailing time? If not, where do you keep your boat?

 

[dlochner]

Take a look at Seaward Yachts. They are popular in the skinny water of the Florida and Gulf Coast.

 

[thinwater]

Multihulls. Five feet is not skinny. My last boat was a 34' cruising cat, about 3'3" draft. My F-24 draws 18"/4'6".

At my home marina, most boats motor 2 miles south around a bar, while I blast straight out from the channel. My berth is cheap because it's only ~ 3 feet at low tide.

 

[Tom J]

As has been said on this forum many times, boating is all about compromise. When we looked for a cruising sailboat, we found the perfect boat for us was a 31' Catalina with an open concept interior and the shallow draft wing keel. But, since we were living in Florida on the Gulf Coast, even the wing keel was a liability at times. No matter were we berthed her, waiting out the tide was necessary. That being said, it was understandable that there weren't too many deep draft vessels in our part of the world.

 

[rgranger]

Take a look at Seaward Yachts. They are popular in the skinny water of the Florida and Gulf Coast.

 

[rgranger]

So my question for the general skinny water sailing community is this - Do you generally decide on boat size/capacity or performance, and let the boat purchase and marina decision follow? If not, how do you find your balance?

When my kids were still living at home... we spent 3 out of 4 weekends each summer at Smith Mountain Lake. SML is a very very deep lake so draft should not be an issue, but for one week each summer, we trailered to the North Carolina Outer Banks for a week long cruise. And the shifting sandbars and shoal water made a swing keel an absolute must. So after a few different boats, I became a swing keel sailor. I liked getting into the shallow lagoons for a safe anchorage... all in all I'd say that I do not "let the marina decision follow". YMMV

 

[Davidasailor26]

Having sailed an O’Day 28 with 3’8” draft on Barnegat Bay for many years I know how you feel. I’d recommend looking at other marinas that might have better access. You’ll still be limited but I bet you could find someplace that would accommodate a draft in the mid-4’s pretty well. That should open up options for at least some shoal draft boats in the mid-30’s.

 

[JoeWhite]

My c36 with 6' draft requires that for safety I wait for 2' of tide to exit or enter the chanel.
I have been in this marina for 16 years and never run aground. I do plan and mind the tide, but has not been a problem
Haro.

 

[rgranger]

Here are some compramises for you...

Boat	Draft (feet)	Comments
Pearson 33	4-7	has a fixed keel with a swing inside. It can be sailed with a draft of 4' or extended to 7'
Pearson 323	4'6"
Hunter Cherubini 30.4	4' 3"
Bristol 32	4'
Bristol 35.5	3' 11"
Catalina 350	5'
Hunter Legend 37.5	4'9"
Any number of multi-hulls	<3'
Bayfield 32	3' 9"
Beneteau First 32	4' 5"
Gulfstar 37	4' 6"

 

[Banooma]

Another marina is certainly an option, as my current wing keel occasionally touches the soft bottom in the channel out to the open bay. A multihull may be in the cards longer term, but not currently in the budget. The swing keel is certainly something I've thought about - and became quite familiar with when I used to sail a Boston Whaler Harpoon. As far as trying a different marina - do any Forked River-based sailors ever have depth challenges getting out to the open bay?

 

[Davidasailor26]

As far as trying a different marina - do any Forked River-based sailors ever have depth challenges getting out to the open bay?

We were on Forked River until about 10 years ago. We never had any issues with our 3’8” draft and I think up to the mid 4’s would have been quite safe. I don’t know if it’s silted in at all since then.

To add a couple more options to rgranger’s sub-5’ list, the Beneteau 34 is 4’6” and the 37 is 4’7”.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

The sweet spot for draft on Barnegat Bay has to be Forked RIver. I don't know for sure, but I suspect that boats with 5' to 6' draft go in and out with little restriction, if any. The largest sailing ground and deepest area of the bay obviously is just outside Forked River. We are at Mariner's, pretty much right across from Harvey Cedars, but the sedge islands and shallows on your side of the bay are far more restrictive than the west side where we are. We have numerous boats in our marina up to 40' in length and draft up to 5' or a little more. Our access channel is probably much shorter than yours and we have no trouble with depth once outside the channel, which ends at the condominiums on the point. Our access to the bay is really pretty convenient and it takes far less time to get access than some of the inner reaches of Forked River. The deep area available for sailing just outside our marina is not so deep, but generally at least 7' to 9' and we have no problem. As you know, the normal tidal swing is only about 1/2' on the bay so the tide doesn't really make a very big difference, except during blow-out tides.

My draft is just shy of 5' and I have had no problem in our location during the 2 years we've had this boat. But blow-out tides are occasionally a problem for a draft greater than 4'. Blow-out tides occur with low tide coinciding with a strong south or west wind, which obviously is pretty common. When we had our Starwind 27 with draft less than 4' I didn't have a problem. I think problems with blow-out tide have diminished in our area because the channel was dredged a few years ago. I rarely see the channel with less than 6' now, except for avoidable spots in front of our slips that I have learned.

It took a little time to get used to the extra foot of draft on our Catalina 320. I grounded at a few locations in Oyster Creek and most surprisingly right in the channel leading to Key Marina. Other than that, the extra draft hasn't changed my sailing patterns on Barnegat Bay one bit. I can still nestle in fairly close to the shoreline at Tices Shoal in the right area. We rarely sail north of Lanoka Harbor since it is restrictive for any boat, except in the channel.

Our Catalina has a wing keel but it has deeper draft than many of the same model. They are typically advertised at 4'3", but it depends on the model year. They made a few modifications over the years. Our model was built at a time when they deepened the keel stub and didn't shorten the keel. I measured mine at 4'9" draft. Earlier models had a shallower keel stub, and later models, they shortened the keel to reduce the draft. We have a Catalina 350 and Catalina 34 with shoal keel for dock neighbors ... draft is right around 5' I believe. There are several Beneteaus & Hunters in 32' range and longer, and several Island Packets with shallow keels in the marina.

 

[dlochner]

Other boats to look at are Sabre 32, 34, 36, 362 with wing keels or centerboards. My 362 has a 4'10" design draft. Look beyond the popular production boats, like Catalina and Beneteau.

 

[BigEasy]

Most production boat builders offer fixed deep keels (6-7’) as well as shoal keels (4-5), and some even offer swing keels on boats over 30’ in length. Even on my 35’ boat, Beneteau offered a swing keel with approximately 3’ draft (they are few and hard to find, but do exist. So at least you do have options on boat selection to fit your locale in addition to finding marinas and sailing areas to fit the draft of your boat. Here on the Gulf Coast, you will be limited in where you can go if you have a 6 to 7’ keel.

 

[Banooma]

Thanks for your Forked River and Mariners-specific comments - especially with regard to the blow-out tides. Maybe that helps explain some of my observations regarding deeper draft boat dock habits. I assume that Forked River has less of a draft restriction than Mariners, as well. I'm actually in Mariners, too, but never spoke with any neighbors about the wind-induced tidal differences. When the tide is low, I do know that my depth sensor shows very little clearance (inches) below the wings in the channel just outside the marina lagoon.

I know that for many it is simply part of sailing to worry about draft and the tide. In my heart maybe I'm still the Sunfish sailor whose boat involves no wood brightwork and limited maintenance, and who sails when the wind seems right, not worrying about planning the rest of my day around the tide. So the closer I can get to a Sunfish-like draft while still being able to ferry 6 people around and sleep 4 very comfortably, the better. That said, for a boat in the low/mid 30's I think I am leaning toward what I would assume the single-handing simplicity of a fixed keel, but my search is still open - thanks for your suggestions.

While I'm thinking of it - I've noticed a gorgeous new-ish Beneteau on the hard at the marina has the swing keel design, but near the pivot point is covered by barnacles that apparently settled in bottom-paint-be-damned. Would barnacles on a swing keel ever impede the function and great shallow depth advantage of a swing keel?

 

[BigEasy]

While I'm thinking of it - I've noticed a gorgeous new-ish Beneteau on the hard at the marina has the swing keel design, but near the pivot point is covered by barnacles that apparently settled in bottom-paint-be-damned. Would barnacles on a swing keel ever impede the function and great shallow depth advantage of a swing keel?

I did not want to deal with hauling the boat for maintenance on a swing keel boat because I usually haul out at 2 to 3 year intervals in my locale; however, if you are hauling annually in NJ, there is ample opportunity to service a swing keel at that time.

 

[tangocaptain]

Hi:
I would strongly advise against Seaward. I owned a 32RK and I lost the keel twice. The lifting system is very weak and poorly designed. In a knock down there is nothing stopping the keel from punching a hole and going thru your hull. As you raise and lower the keel, you are supposed to slide a small pin in the keel arm which is supposed to hold the keel. It does not.
The mast is stepped on top of the housing for the electric winch that raises and lowers the keel.
Seawards are no longer made.
I sail very skinny waters and I am looking at Catalina 310, 309 and 350 because I never want to deal with any raising or swinging keels. They are a nightmare.

 

[NYSail]

I love having options of a shoal keel.... last boat was a Pearson 36-2 with a 4'2" keel and centerboard that dropped it to 8'.... I loved it as we were able to get into most places without a second thought and she sailed beautifully for what we wanted. There are many older shoal draft with centerboard boats out there..... My new boat is 5'6".... however our sailing grounds are typically deep water.

Good Luck
Greg

 

[shemandr]

The old Tartan 37 draws 4’ with the centerboard down. I think around 10’ with the board down. I’ve said about that boat that you can cross an ocean and anchor in 5’ of water.