Has any one used Peter Suah's system for Singlehanded mast raising? I am assuming that what is shown is a gin pole for hoisting, what is used to keep the mast centered laterally? http://www.sailboatowners.com/upload/display.tpl?folder=73157344404&fno=17 Also on John Sylvester's mast support system it isn't clear if new connections have to be added to the mast, though it appears that they must. http://www.sailboatowners.com/upload/display.tpl?folder=73176871915&fno=17 Any help appreciated, thanks, John
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Yes, I have
Yes, I currently have Peter's system configured for my '85 H23. The system really works great and I can truly raise the mast myself. (This is even the older heavier Kenyon Mast). The only mod I have that's maybe different from what Peter may be doing is that I have a large se of reinforced saw horses with a roller that I set up in the cockpit. This is to raise the mast a litter higher than the stock metal mast crutch. Also, the roller on the center top of the saw horse allows me to easily slide the mast back from the storage position. In My opinion, this works just as well as any of the mast raising systems on newer boats and the cost is under $40.00. /Chuck S/V Windsongs, '85 H23
Yes, I currently have Peter's system configured for my '85 H23. The system really works great and I can truly raise the mast myself. (This is even the older heavier Kenyon Mast). The only mod I have that's maybe different from what Peter may be doing is that I have a large se of reinforced saw horses with a roller that I set up in the cockpit. This is to raise the mast a litter higher than the stock metal mast crutch. Also, the roller on the center top of the saw horse allows me to easily slide the mast back from the storage position. In My opinion, this works just as well as any of the mast raising systems on newer boats and the cost is under $40.00. /Chuck S/V Windsongs, '85 H23
So what does keep the mast straight
So do you just rely on the shrouds to keep the mast straight laterally?
So do you just rely on the shrouds to keep the mast straight laterally?
What keeps the mast straight?
The person raising it. Stand on the cabin top aft of the mast step and put a steadying hand on the mast as it goes up. The shrouds don't help because they're still slack. You need a little extra length to do this but it makes all the difference. DON'T attempt to raise or lower the mast if the boat and trailer aren't on level ground. If you have any doubts whatsoever about your ability to steady the mast as it goes up, build one of the systems with the rigid stabilizing legs and mast collar. The extendable mast crutch is the other (lesser-known) part of the system. I posted pictures about two years ago. It's made of two pieces of square steel tubing that nest inside one another with a rubber roller on top. It fits over the rudder pintles on the transom. This crutch retracts fully to support the mast horizontally for trailering. To raise the mast, it extends up about six feet to support the mast at about a 45-degree angle. I had mine made up in a metal fabrication shop here in Orlando for about $150. For some reason I can't find the article I posted with the extendable crutch, so I'll try to find the originals and re-post them. Peter H23 "Raven"
The person raising it. Stand on the cabin top aft of the mast step and put a steadying hand on the mast as it goes up. The shrouds don't help because they're still slack. You need a little extra length to do this but it makes all the difference. DON'T attempt to raise or lower the mast if the boat and trailer aren't on level ground. If you have any doubts whatsoever about your ability to steady the mast as it goes up, build one of the systems with the rigid stabilizing legs and mast collar. The extendable mast crutch is the other (lesser-known) part of the system. I posted pictures about two years ago. It's made of two pieces of square steel tubing that nest inside one another with a rubber roller on top. It fits over the rudder pintles on the transom. This crutch retracts fully to support the mast horizontally for trailering. To raise the mast, it extends up about six feet to support the mast at about a 45-degree angle. I had mine made up in a metal fabrication shop here in Orlando for about $150. For some reason I can't find the article I posted with the extendable crutch, so I'll try to find the originals and re-post them. Peter H23 "Raven"
Extendable mast crutch - Reposted
I reposted pictures of the extendable mast crutch along with a brief description of the mast raising sequence. See link below to Photo Forum. I hope this helps. Peter H23 "Raven"
I reposted pictures of the extendable mast crutch along with a brief description of the mast raising sequence. See link below to Photo Forum. I hope this helps. Peter H23 "Raven"
Mac, I need some more info
I'm trying to understand why you're having trouble extending the crutch to the mast-raising position. Do you have the Kenyon mast? Are you trying to extend the crutch before or after the mast base has been rolled aft and pinned to the step? Is the extendable tube just awkwardly positioned for lifting? How tightly does the inner sleeve fit inside the outer one. Are you sure something isn't binding somewhere? How close to vertical is the A-frame when you start the lift? What is the angle between the A-frame and the mast during lifting? All of these factors can make a difference. It's easy for me to extend the crutch because I have a Z-spar mast which we all know is pretty light. I'm also just over 6 ft tall so I do have somewhat of an advantage in terms of height and reach. However, I shared this system so that hopefully just about anyone could use it to raise the H23 mast quickly and safely. So, thanks for letting me know it's not working as intended for you. I'll try to come up with an improvement. By the way, your chain-link fence hinge gudgeons were impressive. Peter H23 "Raven"
I'm trying to understand why you're having trouble extending the crutch to the mast-raising position. Do you have the Kenyon mast? Are you trying to extend the crutch before or after the mast base has been rolled aft and pinned to the step? Is the extendable tube just awkwardly positioned for lifting? How tightly does the inner sleeve fit inside the outer one. Are you sure something isn't binding somewhere? How close to vertical is the A-frame when you start the lift? What is the angle between the A-frame and the mast during lifting? All of these factors can make a difference. It's easy for me to extend the crutch because I have a Z-spar mast which we all know is pretty light. I'm also just over 6 ft tall so I do have somewhat of an advantage in terms of height and reach. However, I shared this system so that hopefully just about anyone could use it to raise the H23 mast quickly and safely. So, thanks for letting me know it's not working as intended for you. I'll try to come up with an improvement. By the way, your chain-link fence hinge gudgeons were impressive. Peter H23 "Raven"
Here it is.
Peter, I'm 57 years old and although not as strong as I once was, I've never felt below average in that department. I was 6 feet tall before old-age shrinkage set in. I have a Francespar mast, which I believe is pretty heavy based on comments of other h23 owners. Raising the mast with one hand and steadying it with the other is totally out of the question. I roll the mast back and fasten the base before trying to extend the crutch. Maybe I should rethink that. Awkward is a good word for it. The tube slides easily enough, but once I get the mast up two or three feet, and it's not fastened to the rollers anymore, I'm using all the strength I've got and don't feel in control. Not a good feeling. So that means I have to raise the mast from horizontal. The A-frame is standing straight up, so it's a 90-degree angle from the mast. 4:1 purchase. Very difficult to get it up that first 20-25 degrees. It's not so bad when my son's around to push from the cockpit, but when it's just the wife, bless her sailing-lovin' heart, she's no factor. But I'm not complaining. Without your help, I wouldn't be getting it done at all. Thanks, Mac
Peter, I'm 57 years old and although not as strong as I once was, I've never felt below average in that department. I was 6 feet tall before old-age shrinkage set in. I have a Francespar mast, which I believe is pretty heavy based on comments of other h23 owners. Raising the mast with one hand and steadying it with the other is totally out of the question. I roll the mast back and fasten the base before trying to extend the crutch. Maybe I should rethink that. Awkward is a good word for it. The tube slides easily enough, but once I get the mast up two or three feet, and it's not fastened to the rollers anymore, I'm using all the strength I've got and don't feel in control. Not a good feeling. So that means I have to raise the mast from horizontal. The A-frame is standing straight up, so it's a 90-degree angle from the mast. 4:1 purchase. Very difficult to get it up that first 20-25 degrees. It's not so bad when my son's around to push from the cockpit, but when it's just the wife, bless her sailing-lovin' heart, she's no factor. But I'm not complaining. Without your help, I wouldn't be getting it done at all. Thanks, Mac
One more question Mac
You are following the correct procedure but there's one statement I didn't quite understand: "The tube slides easily enough, but once I get the mast up two or three feet, and it's not fastened to the rollers anymore..." The roller is on the extendable part of the crutch, i.e., the inner steel tube, so the mast should be on the roller the whole time as you extend the crutch. I'm not understanding how the mast is "fastened" to the rollers. I can see where the weight of the Francespar mast would be a definite disadvantage. However I'm beginning to see a solution but it will complicate the crutch a tad. This may sound a bit screwy but bear with me... How about a lifting mechanism for the inner sliding tube? Weld a small hand-cranked winch (like the one used to winch the boat onto the trailer but smaller) to the top of the outer tube. The winch axis should be horizontal and positioned so the hub is over the tube. The winch should be on the same side of the crutch as the hand you favor, i.e. right side for most folks and left side for the southpaws. Get about eight feet of small-diameter steel cable (1/8-inch should be OK) and fasten one end to the winch. It has to be small enough to fit between the inner and outer tubes. Fasten the other end to the bottom of the inner tube and drop it down inside the outer tube. To extend the crutch, crank on the handle. As the cable winds on the winch drum it will pull the lower end of the inner tube upwards and extend the crutch. Voila! If you use a winch with a two-way ratchet you can safely stop at any point on the way up or down. How's that for full control of the crutch extending operation, over? Peter H23 "Raven"
You are following the correct procedure but there's one statement I didn't quite understand: "The tube slides easily enough, but once I get the mast up two or three feet, and it's not fastened to the rollers anymore..." The roller is on the extendable part of the crutch, i.e., the inner steel tube, so the mast should be on the roller the whole time as you extend the crutch. I'm not understanding how the mast is "fastened" to the rollers. I can see where the weight of the Francespar mast would be a definite disadvantage. However I'm beginning to see a solution but it will complicate the crutch a tad. This may sound a bit screwy but bear with me... How about a lifting mechanism for the inner sliding tube? Weld a small hand-cranked winch (like the one used to winch the boat onto the trailer but smaller) to the top of the outer tube. The winch axis should be horizontal and positioned so the hub is over the tube. The winch should be on the same side of the crutch as the hand you favor, i.e. right side for most folks and left side for the southpaws. Get about eight feet of small-diameter steel cable (1/8-inch should be OK) and fasten one end to the winch. It has to be small enough to fit between the inner and outer tubes. Fasten the other end to the bottom of the inner tube and drop it down inside the outer tube. To extend the crutch, crank on the handle. As the cable winds on the winch drum it will pull the lower end of the inner tube upwards and extend the crutch. Voila! If you use a winch with a two-way ratchet you can safely stop at any point on the way up or down. How's that for full control of the crutch extending operation, over? Peter H23 "Raven"
Capital idea.
No room for a wire right now, but I can go up an eighth or a quarter inch on the outer square tube. I tried to think of a way to use a winch, but I never would have thought to use steel wire. At the risk of sounding completely helpless, how would you suggest the wire be attached to the inner tube? Thanks, Mac
No room for a wire right now, but I can go up an eighth or a quarter inch on the outer square tube. I tried to think of a way to use a winch, but I never would have thought to use steel wire. At the risk of sounding completely helpless, how would you suggest the wire be attached to the inner tube? Thanks, Mac
Attaching wire to inner steel tube
Here's an idea (maybe not the final one but certainly a start): Drill a hole horizontally though the steel inner tube from one side to the other about two inches from the bottom (actual position is not critical). Drill a larger hole about six inches above that in one side of the inner tube. File its edges to form an oval with the longer axis aligned with the tube. You could also do this by angling the bit as you drill the hole. File the edges as smooth as possible. Form an eye in the lower end of the lifting wire using a swaged fitting. Thread the wire up the inside of the inner tube, through the oval hole and up between the two tubes. Keep going until the swaged eye in the lower end of the wire lines up with the two lower holes in the inner tube. Secure the eye inside the inner tube with a steel pin. The pin has to be a tight fit in the two holes in the wall of the inner tube and just long enough to match its width. The free, unswaged upper end of the wire can then be wrapped on the trailer winch. I stopped by West Marine today to check out wire cable and trailer winches. They have all kinds of wire braid (sold by the foot) and the swaging machine is right there. They also have steel pins. The smallest winch they had was way bigger than what we'd need and cost $30. You might find a smaller, less expensive one at Walmart. Peter H23 "Raven"
Here's an idea (maybe not the final one but certainly a start): Drill a hole horizontally though the steel inner tube from one side to the other about two inches from the bottom (actual position is not critical). Drill a larger hole about six inches above that in one side of the inner tube. File its edges to form an oval with the longer axis aligned with the tube. You could also do this by angling the bit as you drill the hole. File the edges as smooth as possible. Form an eye in the lower end of the lifting wire using a swaged fitting. Thread the wire up the inside of the inner tube, through the oval hole and up between the two tubes. Keep going until the swaged eye in the lower end of the wire lines up with the two lower holes in the inner tube. Secure the eye inside the inner tube with a steel pin. The pin has to be a tight fit in the two holes in the wall of the inner tube and just long enough to match its width. The free, unswaged upper end of the wire can then be wrapped on the trailer winch. I stopped by West Marine today to check out wire cable and trailer winches. They have all kinds of wire braid (sold by the foot) and the swaging machine is right there. They also have steel pins. The smallest winch they had was way bigger than what we'd need and cost $30. You might find a smaller, less expensive one at Walmart. Peter H23 "Raven"
One more thought
To minimize the risk of getting the lifting wire caught between the two tubes and possibly shearing it off, could you make the outer tube circular and the inner one square? That would leave lots of room between them for the wire to run freely but still keep the clearance fairly tight. Just a thought. Peter H23 "Raven"
To minimize the risk of getting the lifting wire caught between the two tubes and possibly shearing it off, could you make the outer tube circular and the inner one square? That would leave lots of room between them for the wire to run freely but still keep the clearance fairly tight. Just a thought. Peter H23 "Raven"
More info?
I just obtained a H23, and am very interested in this mast raising system. I reviewed the pictures, but is there more info on measurements and how to use it- do you attach a snatch block to the A frame? Thanks for any info- I plan to build a stern mast crutch (extendable) soon.
I just obtained a H23, and am very interested in this mast raising system. I reviewed the pictures, but is there more info on measurements and how to use it- do you attach a snatch block to the A frame? Thanks for any info- I plan to build a stern mast crutch (extendable) soon.
More info
Exact measurements weren't given because boats vary slightly. The A-frame legs are just over 9 ft long. They should be long enough to reach from the forward lifeline stanchions to meet just ahead of the forestay chainplate in the anchor locker. Don't forget to leave a couple of extra inches for the flattened ends. I use my mainsheet tackle as the lifting tackle so I have snap shackles on both sheaves. One goes to the tang at the head of the A-frame and the other goes to the pendant for the jib, which is connected to the same chainplate as the forestay turnbuckle. If you make the A-frame legs long enough, they will clear the forestay tunbuckle and you can connect the forestay from behind. If you make the shrouds really slack, you can tighten the forestay turnbuckle by hand while the A-frame lifting tackle is still tensioned(mine takes 40 full turns!) Peter H23 "Raven"
Exact measurements weren't given because boats vary slightly. The A-frame legs are just over 9 ft long. They should be long enough to reach from the forward lifeline stanchions to meet just ahead of the forestay chainplate in the anchor locker. Don't forget to leave a couple of extra inches for the flattened ends. I use my mainsheet tackle as the lifting tackle so I have snap shackles on both sheaves. One goes to the tang at the head of the A-frame and the other goes to the pendant for the jib, which is connected to the same chainplate as the forestay turnbuckle. If you make the A-frame legs long enough, they will clear the forestay tunbuckle and you can connect the forestay from behind. If you make the shrouds really slack, you can tighten the forestay turnbuckle by hand while the A-frame lifting tackle is still tensioned(mine takes 40 full turns!) Peter H23 "Raven"
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