Submitted by Tony Dragani of Marblehead on 07/02 at 05:32AM regarding Hunter 356. I recently purchased a Hunter 356 and I am unhappy with the running rigging. The boat comes with the new arch and the helmsman can only control the traveler blocks from the helm. I have no access to the main sheet or jib sheets at the helm without climbing over people since these controls are on the cabin top. Has anyone re-configured a newer Hunter to be single-handed? The boat in it's current configuration can't be under sail alone in pulling into a dock, up to a mooring or just normal sailing. It is more like a power boat that can be sailed with instruments once out in unobstructed waters (without other boats or obstacles) and with the captain climbing over the crew. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Solo 356
Seems like we went through something similar to this several weeks ago. I would not want to try to dock our 356 under sail alone, although I'm pretty sure I could do it if necessary, it just would not be pretty. Picking up a mooring might be easier. Regarding sailing in other situations, I'm not sure what the real problem is and I disagree with your assertion that it can't be under sail while alone. I've not sailed very many boats where the helmsman has immediate and unrestricted access to all lines while standing behind the wheel. I find that particularly true in the larger boats I've sailed. If you are going to single hand, then you have to figure out ways to stabilize and get around (sometimes fast). Try standing in front of the wheel. I can single hand our 356 on San Francisco bay without any real trouble (small craft warnings are pretty much issued daily in the summer). Using an autopilot makes it a little easier. Downwind with 25-30 knots behind, I would prefer not to try gybing alone. I've said it before, I'd probably tack around the long way in that situation just to be safe, but I could do it. You mentioned going over crew. I can generally teach a competent 12 year old to hold enough of a course to get the sails up or down. A little more practice and they can usually handle a tack from the helm. Use the crew. I think you could run lines back to the spinnaker winches for the jib, but frankly, it does not put them enough closer to matter that much. It is just as easy to lock the wheel and step forward a few steps and move the jib after the tack. Also, there really is not any room for winches and winch handles to turn that far back on the 356, and most rear cockpit Hunters with the arch for that matter. Getting the lines there will add a lot of friction to the system. I like the arch as it keeps things up out of the way. It also allows the main sheet attachment to be well back on the boom, which makes handling that line a lot easier, not to mention a traveller that is about as long as you can get. There have been many posts on here wanting to know how to set up that system on the older boats. I'm curious if you demo sailed a 356 before your purchase? I can't imagine that the placement of the running rigging did not elevate as an issue (if it was one) prior to purchase. I find the boat easier to single hand than our 290. It is more stable, running rigging is virtually the same placement, and we did the in-mast furling this time. I'm presuming that you have single handed other similar size boats. If not, take your time and get to know the boat. Try to do your single handed exercises in light wind conditions a few times before you ratchet up the conditions. Take someone along who knows what to do, and practice not using them. Actually, that is good practive just in case you have to single hand back to pluck them out of the water. When my wife and I do MOB drills on the boat, one participant sits quietly...because that is the real issue we would face for 90% of our sailing. If you get where you can do the MOB solo, then sailing in general or picking up a mooring should work. Still might have to start that diesel to dock with dignity. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Seems like we went through something similar to this several weeks ago. I would not want to try to dock our 356 under sail alone, although I'm pretty sure I could do it if necessary, it just would not be pretty. Picking up a mooring might be easier. Regarding sailing in other situations, I'm not sure what the real problem is and I disagree with your assertion that it can't be under sail while alone. I've not sailed very many boats where the helmsman has immediate and unrestricted access to all lines while standing behind the wheel. I find that particularly true in the larger boats I've sailed. If you are going to single hand, then you have to figure out ways to stabilize and get around (sometimes fast). Try standing in front of the wheel. I can single hand our 356 on San Francisco bay without any real trouble (small craft warnings are pretty much issued daily in the summer). Using an autopilot makes it a little easier. Downwind with 25-30 knots behind, I would prefer not to try gybing alone. I've said it before, I'd probably tack around the long way in that situation just to be safe, but I could do it. You mentioned going over crew. I can generally teach a competent 12 year old to hold enough of a course to get the sails up or down. A little more practice and they can usually handle a tack from the helm. Use the crew. I think you could run lines back to the spinnaker winches for the jib, but frankly, it does not put them enough closer to matter that much. It is just as easy to lock the wheel and step forward a few steps and move the jib after the tack. Also, there really is not any room for winches and winch handles to turn that far back on the 356, and most rear cockpit Hunters with the arch for that matter. Getting the lines there will add a lot of friction to the system. I like the arch as it keeps things up out of the way. It also allows the main sheet attachment to be well back on the boom, which makes handling that line a lot easier, not to mention a traveller that is about as long as you can get. There have been many posts on here wanting to know how to set up that system on the older boats. I'm curious if you demo sailed a 356 before your purchase? I can't imagine that the placement of the running rigging did not elevate as an issue (if it was one) prior to purchase. I find the boat easier to single hand than our 290. It is more stable, running rigging is virtually the same placement, and we did the in-mast furling this time. I'm presuming that you have single handed other similar size boats. If not, take your time and get to know the boat. Try to do your single handed exercises in light wind conditions a few times before you ratchet up the conditions. Take someone along who knows what to do, and practice not using them. Actually, that is good practive just in case you have to single hand back to pluck them out of the water. When my wife and I do MOB drills on the boat, one participant sits quietly...because that is the real issue we would face for 90% of our sailing. If you get where you can do the MOB solo, then sailing in general or picking up a mooring should work. Still might have to start that diesel to dock with dignity. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
just curious
Just wondering why you bought this boat if you knew that you would be unhappy with the rigging. There is a previous thread on this subject you might want to read. You also might want to put your crew to work instead of climbing over them. They might enjoy it and you might have more fun as well. I would also never consider docking this boat under sail. The potential for trouble is just too great.
Just wondering why you bought this boat if you knew that you would be unhappy with the rigging. There is a previous thread on this subject you might want to read. You also might want to put your crew to work instead of climbing over them. They might enjoy it and you might have more fun as well. I would also never consider docking this boat under sail. The potential for trouble is just too great.
I single-hand constantly
Well, it's never occurred to me to operate the primary winches while I was holding the wheel. That's what my autopilot is for. Pulling up to a dock is what your auxiliary engine is for. It would have to be a life-and-death emergency before I would try to dock an 8-ton sailboat single-handed, under sail. Docking is hard enough for most people with an engine and a mate. I can't remember ever sailing a boat of any size where both primary winches, the mainsheet, and the traveller blocks could all be controlled while standing at the wheel. I'm not sure it would make that much difference, I'd still have to use the autopilot.
Well, it's never occurred to me to operate the primary winches while I was holding the wheel. That's what my autopilot is for. Pulling up to a dock is what your auxiliary engine is for. It would have to be a life-and-death emergency before I would try to dock an 8-ton sailboat single-handed, under sail. Docking is hard enough for most people with an engine and a mate. I can't remember ever sailing a boat of any size where both primary winches, the mainsheet, and the traveller blocks could all be controlled while standing at the wheel. I'm not sure it would make that much difference, I'd still have to use the autopilot.
Tony, I am test sailing one on Friday
and I read your notes, the responses (at this time) and will be very interested in checking out the facts. If you ever want a crew, I am in Sandusky every weekend, and, probably, pass by your port from time to time.
and I read your notes, the responses (at this time) and will be very interested in checking out the facts. If you ever want a crew, I am in Sandusky every weekend, and, probably, pass by your port from time to time.
Single-handing the Hunter
Tony, it seems as if you're asking for too much! I can see that you have gotten some very good advice so far here; you should heed it! Even if you COULD get all the lines back to the wheel, you'd still need three (or more!) hands to control everything during a tack or jibe. That leaves you a few hands short. We only have a H23. Admittedly, it's quite a bit simpler than your boat, but it's still tough to handle without someone else to man the helm. I sail solo quite often, and after a few months of jumping around while trying to make a smooth tack, I invested in an autopilot. Now I just hit the "TACK" button and let it handle things at the stern while I concentrate on the sheets. Believe me, it's a real pleasure and worth every cent! As for having to climb over your "crew", I have to say that IMHO they are not "crew" unless they are doing something! We've always found that our guests are more than happy to help with things; it makes them feel useful and keeps 'em from getting bored. I don't mean to be overly critical, but most any sailboat can "be under sail alone in ... normal sailing.". While sailing on a reach, you trim your sails in such a way (balanced) as to make the boat steer itself with no rudder input. As for docking under sail, all I can say is, "Good Luck!" Our 23 weighs only 2500 lb, so it's pretty nimble. We have sailed up to anchor among other boats on occasion, but we wouldn't dream of trying to navigate the marina under sail. What happens if someone pulls out of their slip while your sailing up to yours? Anyway, that's just my opinion... Jim Maroldo s/v: Lil' Wass Ett
Tony, it seems as if you're asking for too much! I can see that you have gotten some very good advice so far here; you should heed it! Even if you COULD get all the lines back to the wheel, you'd still need three (or more!) hands to control everything during a tack or jibe. That leaves you a few hands short. We only have a H23. Admittedly, it's quite a bit simpler than your boat, but it's still tough to handle without someone else to man the helm. I sail solo quite often, and after a few months of jumping around while trying to make a smooth tack, I invested in an autopilot. Now I just hit the "TACK" button and let it handle things at the stern while I concentrate on the sheets. Believe me, it's a real pleasure and worth every cent! As for having to climb over your "crew", I have to say that IMHO they are not "crew" unless they are doing something! We've always found that our guests are more than happy to help with things; it makes them feel useful and keeps 'em from getting bored. I don't mean to be overly critical, but most any sailboat can "be under sail alone in ... normal sailing.". While sailing on a reach, you trim your sails in such a way (balanced) as to make the boat steer itself with no rudder input. As for docking under sail, all I can say is, "Good Luck!" Our 23 weighs only 2500 lb, so it's pretty nimble. We have sailed up to anchor among other boats on occasion, but we wouldn't dream of trying to navigate the marina under sail. What happens if someone pulls out of their slip while your sailing up to yours? Anyway, that's just my opinion... Jim Maroldo s/v: Lil' Wass Ett
single handing a 356
ditto on the other replies for me! I can single hand my 356 without relocating the running rigging- I just flip on the autopilot and go forward-in a pinch, if the boat is balanced, you could just set the wheel brake and go. you could, i suppose, lead all the lines aft but it would really clutter up the cockpit. I've single handed jibed in light air by leading the main aft from the winch and letting the jib float-to tack, i hit the tack buttons on the autopilot and go forward to tend the jib. I don't know anyone who tries to dock under sail in a large boat- it's tough to do even with a skilled crew, let alone! BTW, I'm just around the corner from you, in Salem harbor- what's your 356 named? Chuck Wayne Hunter 356 WWW.Escape
ditto on the other replies for me! I can single hand my 356 without relocating the running rigging- I just flip on the autopilot and go forward-in a pinch, if the boat is balanced, you could just set the wheel brake and go. you could, i suppose, lead all the lines aft but it would really clutter up the cockpit. I've single handed jibed in light air by leading the main aft from the winch and letting the jib float-to tack, i hit the tack buttons on the autopilot and go forward to tend the jib. I don't know anyone who tries to dock under sail in a large boat- it's tough to do even with a skilled crew, let alone! BTW, I'm just around the corner from you, in Salem harbor- what's your 356 named? Chuck Wayne Hunter 356 WWW.Escape
HI TONY, YOU'VE GOTTEN QUITE A LOT
of good advice so far. I solo my P42 with some ease even when changing tacks. I would never consider docking her without auxilary propulsion. Too, risky under sail. I can ghost up to an anchoring buoy, but not a marina slip. Just too, tight quarters. As far as cockpit trim lines go, I have the main sheet, boom vang, topping lift, reef points one and two, main halyard, genoa and out haul within easy reach. I can either lock the wheel or use autopilot depending on how much time is needed to trim. The majority of the work on a tack change is getting the genoa over. Once that change is made the rest is just tweaking. Good luck. Terry S/V Belle-Vie
of good advice so far. I solo my P42 with some ease even when changing tacks. I would never consider docking her without auxilary propulsion. Too, risky under sail. I can ghost up to an anchoring buoy, but not a marina slip. Just too, tight quarters. As far as cockpit trim lines go, I have the main sheet, boom vang, topping lift, reef points one and two, main halyard, genoa and out haul within easy reach. I can either lock the wheel or use autopilot depending on how much time is needed to trim. The majority of the work on a tack change is getting the genoa over. Once that change is made the rest is just tweaking. Good luck. Terry S/V Belle-Vie
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