Submitted by Tony Dragani of Marblehead on 07/02 at 05:32AM regarding Hunter 356. I recently purchased a Hunter 356 and I am unhappy with the running rigging. The boat comes with the new arch and the helmsman can only control the traveler blocks. I have no access to the main sheet or jib sheets at the helm without climbing over people since these controls are on the cabin top. Has anyone re-configured a newer Hunter to be single-handed? The boat in it's current configuration can't be under sail alone in pulling into a dock, up to a mooring or just normal sailing. It is more like a power boat that can be sailed with instruments once out in unobstructed waters (without other boats or obstacles) and with the captain climbing over the crew. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Frank Arndorfer
Singlehanding
Tony... I have a 2001 H340 that I singlehand 90% of the time. And it's cockpit, helm station, winch locations, etc are very similar to the H356. here's what I've done to nake the boat simpler; 1. I had the spinnaker winches added at the factory and use them for jib winches. They're reachable from the helm station. I believe the backing plates are installed in the deck plate so adding them aftermarket should be possible. 2. I replaced all the pulleys, blocks, sheaves, etc. for mainsail reefing with Harken (or similar) ballbearing units. 3. I have the standard sail so I converted it to full batten and added a Harken bat/car/track for hoisting. I'm able to raise the mainsail without a winch and can reef on any point of sail. 4. Added a Maxprop 3 blade feathering prop. None of this stuff has been cheap but with my level of expertise (4yrs sailing 'big' boats) I'm able to sail this boat quite well by myself. And the Maxprop makes undocking/docking a non-event.
Tony... I have a 2001 H340 that I singlehand 90% of the time. And it's cockpit, helm station, winch locations, etc are very similar to the H356. here's what I've done to nake the boat simpler; 1. I had the spinnaker winches added at the factory and use them for jib winches. They're reachable from the helm station. I believe the backing plates are installed in the deck plate so adding them aftermarket should be possible. 2. I replaced all the pulleys, blocks, sheaves, etc. for mainsail reefing with Harken (or similar) ballbearing units. 3. I have the standard sail so I converted it to full batten and added a Harken bat/car/track for hoisting. I'm able to raise the mainsail without a winch and can reef on any point of sail. 4. Added a Maxprop 3 blade feathering prop. None of this stuff has been cheap but with my level of expertise (4yrs sailing 'big' boats) I'm able to sail this boat quite well by myself. And the Maxprop makes undocking/docking a non-event.
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Tony Dragani
Single handling
Thank you for sharing your experience with your 340. I talked to Greg at Hunter. He was real helpful. He is going to send me a sketch on how to put a second main sheet on the arch that would be run down behind the helmsman. This would make controling the main sheet a dream. With the way the 356 does a tight 360 degree turn and control of the main at the helm my 356 should sail like a dingy. He said the extra at the helm main sheet set-up should give me a 2:1 advantage and cost less then 300-500 dollars to implement. I am very excited about this set up because the boat will be a blast to sail once newly rigged. I most likely will never start my engine! I am going to implement your idea of the spinaker winches by just moving aft the current jib winches. Thank you much for your input and I like your idea of the three blade feathering prop. How bad is the drag compared to a fixed two blade? Stay tuned I will let you know how this works out on sea trial. Tony
Thank you for sharing your experience with your 340. I talked to Greg at Hunter. He was real helpful. He is going to send me a sketch on how to put a second main sheet on the arch that would be run down behind the helmsman. This would make controling the main sheet a dream. With the way the 356 does a tight 360 degree turn and control of the main at the helm my 356 should sail like a dingy. He said the extra at the helm main sheet set-up should give me a 2:1 advantage and cost less then 300-500 dollars to implement. I am very excited about this set up because the boat will be a blast to sail once newly rigged. I most likely will never start my engine! I am going to implement your idea of the spinaker winches by just moving aft the current jib winches. Thank you much for your input and I like your idea of the three blade feathering prop. How bad is the drag compared to a fixed two blade? Stay tuned I will let you know how this works out on sea trial. Tony
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Chuck Wayne
Good comments! sounds like they suggested a double-ended sheet, similar to a racing dinghy setup! can you post what he sent you? the spinn winch location is still fairly far forward, but has aluminum plates glassed in-you drill and tap for bolts. I've got the fixed 3 blade, and she backs really well-I've got an autoprop on order, mainly for the drag reduction and to eliminate prop walk. both the max prop and the autoprop appear to be great solutions, but pricey!
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Mike Hopton
Tony, I would like to be able to access the main sheet from the wheel too. Would you be able to scan and email the drawing, or fax me a copy? Thanks and regards, Mike Hopton my email is: michael@quattro.ca
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Colin
Second main sheet
Tony...seems like you have hit on a general grouse. My 356 is about to be built and I would love to see the suggested fix. Please post here for everyone ..and even better when you do it maybe you could add some pics in the photo forum. Meantime my e-mail is CCheetham@msn.com if that is easier. Thanks Colin
Tony...seems like you have hit on a general grouse. My 356 is about to be built and I would love to see the suggested fix. Please post here for everyone ..and even better when you do it maybe you could add some pics in the photo forum. Meantime my e-mail is CCheetham@msn.com if that is easier. Thanks Colin
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Miguel Gonzalez-del-Rey
is it singlehanding or singlehandling?
Anyway I' would like to see drawings too .. My e-mail delreyso@tricom.net Gracias Miguel hull#195
Anyway I' would like to see drawings too .. My e-mail delreyso@tricom.net Gracias Miguel hull#195
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Deac Manross
Single Handing Factory drawings..please send
Likewise, please send a copy of the Hunter suggested set up for leading sheets to the cockpit. THanks........deacm@aol.com
Likewise, please send a copy of the Hunter suggested set up for leading sheets to the cockpit. THanks........deacm@aol.com
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steve aksezer
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Chic Lasser
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Chuck Wayne
singlehanding the 356
ditto # 4! if you can't post it, please add my name to the list! cwayne@attbi.com
ditto # 4! if you can't post it, please add my name to the list! cwayne@attbi.com
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Frank Arndorfer
Feathering prop
Tony; The maxprop feathers to a neutral (low drag) position when under sail, minimizing drag. It's increased by sailing speed by approximately 1/2kt. I too would be interested in seeing the Hunter suggestion on rigging the mainsheet to the arch. frank@qg.com
Tony; The maxprop feathers to a neutral (low drag) position when under sail, minimizing drag. It's increased by sailing speed by approximately 1/2kt. I too would be interested in seeing the Hunter suggestion on rigging the mainsheet to the arch. frank@qg.com
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Daniel Jonas
How does this help?
I still do not know where you will put a winch rear of the wheel that will work the main sheet. Having the mainsheet back there without a winch has limited value. If you are tacking, you don't even need to have the sheet in your hand. If you are gybing, chances are you can't pull the main sail to center prior to the gybe without a winch (unless the air is pretty light). And if you can, you can do it from the wheel anyway. The 356 setup runs the mainsheet to the cabin top. Just go up and pick it up and stand at the wheel. I single handed my 356 this weekend in winds up to 25 knots. Did a gybe just to see how it would work. Went up and winched the main sail to near center (no autopilot, just locked the wheel), carried the line back, still around the winch, and did a slow gybe, and let out the main from there, trimed, locked the wheel and then went up and moved the jib over. Like I siad, the mainsheet will already reach the wheel, so without the addition of a rear winch, what is the advantage? You still have to go forward to move the jib. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
I still do not know where you will put a winch rear of the wheel that will work the main sheet. Having the mainsheet back there without a winch has limited value. If you are tacking, you don't even need to have the sheet in your hand. If you are gybing, chances are you can't pull the main sail to center prior to the gybe without a winch (unless the air is pretty light). And if you can, you can do it from the wheel anyway. The 356 setup runs the mainsheet to the cabin top. Just go up and pick it up and stand at the wheel. I single handed my 356 this weekend in winds up to 25 knots. Did a gybe just to see how it would work. Went up and winched the main sail to near center (no autopilot, just locked the wheel), carried the line back, still around the winch, and did a slow gybe, and let out the main from there, trimed, locked the wheel and then went up and moved the jib over. Like I siad, the mainsheet will already reach the wheel, so without the addition of a rear winch, what is the advantage? You still have to go forward to move the jib. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
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Tony Dragani
Single handling the 356
I guess we don't agree about the definition of single handing a boat. I to have been able to lock the wheel and walk up to the cabin top to single hand in open waters but what about pulling up to a dock or sailing through a crowded harbor with other boats and pulling up to your mooring. Try locking your wheel in these situations and you will have a collision. I could also give you some what if's as to why the skipper should be in control of his wheel at all times and not walking around the deck messing with his sails. The 356 will turns on a dime and handles like a dingy under power and there is no reason why it shouldn't be able to do the same under sail. Also how about having inexperienced people on board who you now have to walk over to get to the cabin top. Bottom line for safety alone the skipper needs to be able to fully control the boat from the helm. Right now I am waiting for a drawing from Hunter since this second main sheet will not be brought forward(to the mast and then the cabin top) it can be handled with a simple two to one puchase set of blocks. Don't forget you have maximum leverage at the end of the boom.
I guess we don't agree about the definition of single handing a boat. I to have been able to lock the wheel and walk up to the cabin top to single hand in open waters but what about pulling up to a dock or sailing through a crowded harbor with other boats and pulling up to your mooring. Try locking your wheel in these situations and you will have a collision. I could also give you some what if's as to why the skipper should be in control of his wheel at all times and not walking around the deck messing with his sails. The 356 will turns on a dime and handles like a dingy under power and there is no reason why it shouldn't be able to do the same under sail. Also how about having inexperienced people on board who you now have to walk over to get to the cabin top. Bottom line for safety alone the skipper needs to be able to fully control the boat from the helm. Right now I am waiting for a drawing from Hunter since this second main sheet will not be brought forward(to the mast and then the cabin top) it can be handled with a simple two to one puchase set of blocks. Don't forget you have maximum leverage at the end of the boom.
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Dan
Single handing
Tony, Well, I guess my first reaction is that a 356 might not be the boat for you then. There just is not enough room behind the wheel to mount everything you will need to control the boat under sail in the conditions you describe. Even if you manage to get the mainsheet back there, you still have the jib sheets forward. Personally, I do not try to sail the boat into a crowded anchorage or to a mooring and certainly not to the dock. I have a very nice auxillary engine for those activities. I can dock quite nicely solo, anchor solo using the engine. If I needed to sail it into a dock, I suppose I would do so with the jib rolled and the mainsheet in my hand, ready to luff at the appropriate moment. In that event, it would work from its current location. I can't comment on the 2 to 1 purchase issue and if that is sufficent to work by hand. I sail in waters where we regularly see 30 knots of wind. I have seen 44 at one point last summer. I know I can't pull the main in by hand in those winds with the existing system and I'm no lightweight. If you are not concerned about sailing in heavier air, then maybe it is ok with the 2-1 purchase. I'm sure you will let us know how it works out. Regarding the definition of single handed, I suppose that we will just have to disagree. You are suggesting, I guess, that unless one can dock, moor, and navigate a crowded anchorage solo, under sail, then he and the boat do not qualify as single handed. Interesting, I wonder if most would agree? I thought I could leave, sail, get back safely alone (even thought I was doing it)....I guess I'll have to go find a real sailor to teach me how to do it right. And regarding captains position at the helm...again I respectfully disagree. The captain's position on the boat can be dependent upon the activity that is going on. My job as captain is to keep the crew safe first, and the boat second. I will move myself about the boat as necessary to make sure that those responsibilities are best handled. I can think of a recent experience where the crew needed to winch up an all chain anchor in a 30 knot wind. I placed myself at the mast with instructions to the helm and the anchor retreival crew to respond to my commands only. I did this to make sure that there were no hands or fingers at risk during this exercise. I would not have been able to see the activities of the anchor crew from the helm. A common misperception of many is that the captain is the driver....not necessarily so. In fact, I'll turn responsibility over to someone else (with sufficient experience) and take a nap if my rest is critical to the safe completion of the trip. I'm still captain, even when asleep. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Tony, Well, I guess my first reaction is that a 356 might not be the boat for you then. There just is not enough room behind the wheel to mount everything you will need to control the boat under sail in the conditions you describe. Even if you manage to get the mainsheet back there, you still have the jib sheets forward. Personally, I do not try to sail the boat into a crowded anchorage or to a mooring and certainly not to the dock. I have a very nice auxillary engine for those activities. I can dock quite nicely solo, anchor solo using the engine. If I needed to sail it into a dock, I suppose I would do so with the jib rolled and the mainsheet in my hand, ready to luff at the appropriate moment. In that event, it would work from its current location. I can't comment on the 2 to 1 purchase issue and if that is sufficent to work by hand. I sail in waters where we regularly see 30 knots of wind. I have seen 44 at one point last summer. I know I can't pull the main in by hand in those winds with the existing system and I'm no lightweight. If you are not concerned about sailing in heavier air, then maybe it is ok with the 2-1 purchase. I'm sure you will let us know how it works out. Regarding the definition of single handed, I suppose that we will just have to disagree. You are suggesting, I guess, that unless one can dock, moor, and navigate a crowded anchorage solo, under sail, then he and the boat do not qualify as single handed. Interesting, I wonder if most would agree? I thought I could leave, sail, get back safely alone (even thought I was doing it)....I guess I'll have to go find a real sailor to teach me how to do it right. And regarding captains position at the helm...again I respectfully disagree. The captain's position on the boat can be dependent upon the activity that is going on. My job as captain is to keep the crew safe first, and the boat second. I will move myself about the boat as necessary to make sure that those responsibilities are best handled. I can think of a recent experience where the crew needed to winch up an all chain anchor in a 30 knot wind. I placed myself at the mast with instructions to the helm and the anchor retreival crew to respond to my commands only. I did this to make sure that there were no hands or fingers at risk during this exercise. I would not have been able to see the activities of the anchor crew from the helm. A common misperception of many is that the captain is the driver....not necessarily so. In fact, I'll turn responsibility over to someone else (with sufficient experience) and take a nap if my rest is critical to the safe completion of the trip. I'm still captain, even when asleep. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
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Richard Cain
It seams like there are a number of sailors anxous to see how the main sheet can be brought back to the helm. So far I have not had too much of a problem climbing over guests or having them assist.(New boat in mid June and mostly experienced sailors testing it out) But I also can see an advantage to having the sheet at the helm. If you could please add me to your list of people who want the specks. My e-mail address is: CaptnR1@aol,com Thanks. P.S. I also have used the spinnaker winches for the jib.
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Robert Polk
Autopillot
Sorry for the late response but missed the post. If you have a Raytheon Autopilot integrated with wind instruments, it allows you to autotack and control both main and jib and also can hold a course head to wind to raise or lower sails. There is a guy in Annapolis who single a 460 this way. But not me!!!
Sorry for the late response but missed the post. If you have a Raytheon Autopilot integrated with wind instruments, it allows you to autotack and control both main and jib and also can hold a course head to wind to raise or lower sails. There is a guy in Annapolis who single a 460 this way. But not me!!!
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