Simple Electronic Upgrades for Raymarine

[rpwillia]

All, On my Catalina 310 I have the Raymarine instruments on a 6" Edson instrument console shown in the attached photo. I have the ST60 Depth, Speed and Wind instruments with a Garmin GPSMap 176 (mounted on the top). I would like to re-use the transducer and speed wheel (plus the wheel is handy for estimating current/tide) as they are mounted in the bow and I just don't want to mess with them. I like the 176, but it is black and white with a small screen and getting harder to read as I age. I have also been toying with adding the Raymarine S1 Wheel Pilot or the Simrad/Navico self-contained unit, but am still doing the cost/benefit thing.

So to do an upgrade to get the most benefit for the least amount of $$$ what would you do. I did consider adding a Lowrance XOG (small 4" color flat panel GPS) but it was lacking an anchor alarm - but it did have the tides and charts. I also considered the Humminbird sounder/gps plotter combo, but it did not have the nice form factor of the XOG. To add the S1 Wheelpilot I would need to move my remote VHF mike.

So, I like the setup I have, especially the wind indicator, I just need more functionality. One additional consideration is I hear the new plotters use a lot of juice, that would probably blow my power budget. I have considered the new Raymarine combined instruments, but at $450-500 a pop for little to no extra functionality they just don't seem worth it. It would seem my best option would be to find something that re-used my installed equipment (transducer and speed wheel) and integrated everything together. Your thoughs?

 

[Joe]

upgrading instruments

First of all, unless they're broken there is no reason to upgrade your depth and speed instruments... I notice you have space for an additional display on your Edson panel where the mic bracket and inclinometer are... those are easy to relocate. So use that space for the auto pilot.. and purchase the GPS unit of your choice on top where the existing bracket is.

If you buy a repeater, the ST60 calls it a tridata, mount it in the nav station in your cabin along with the old GPS. That way you have data available without going behind the steering wheel. Remember this is a boat, not a sports car. Your crew might be interested in what is going on too.

Personally, I dislike those huge instrument clusters at the helm, where only the person driving can see them. There is a tendency to steer staring at the GPS or speed log rather than watching what's in front of the boat. Take a look at many high quality yachts and you'll see the sailing instruments housed in a console atop the hatchway, or fixed to the mast. That way the rest of the crew, plus the driver, can see how the boat is performing.

 

[Maine Sail]

I have also been toying with adding the Raymarine S1 Wheel Pilot or the Simrad/Navico self-contained unit, but am still doing the cost/benefit thing.

I think you'll be buying the S1 or the new one that replaces it seeing as the Simrad WP series was discontinued about three years ago due to numerous problems. I don't even know how well they are still being supported so if you found a used or NOS unit be aware. I owned two of them, and while easy to install, they were in the shop a lot and were also not very good at steering the boat..

 

[Franklin]

Want a 15" chart plotter for cheap?

Want a 15" chart plotter for cheap? If you have a laptop, download Sea Clear II and all the RAS charts of North America. Then just run a cable from your small GPS to the laptop and now you have a very big chart plotter. Now want to make it better, get a 12 volt touch screen monitor and mount it at the helm. Run power, monitor cable to it from the nav station. Now run a cable from the small GPS to the nav station. Plug in the GPS to the laptop and the monitor at the nav station and you now have a large chart plotter at the helm for cheap.

AND...you can put the computer on stand-by and turn the monitor off when you only need the speed and direction so now only the little GPS drawing about .3amps verses the big chart plotters that constantly draw lots of amps.

So, you get the big charts when you want them, but not the big draw when you don't need them. I'm looking to do this during the winter. You can get a 15 touch screen monitor for about $300. Then you will need a way to mount it. You may have to build that yourself. I'm thinking of building a fiberglass case that will keep the water and salt out but still giving breathing to keep it cool.

It's not a simple plug and play solution, but once finished I think it will be 10xs better then a chart plotter and for 1/10th the cost.

 

[Maine Sail]

Fanklin..

Make sure you get a daylight readable touch screen. I have yet to see one for anywhere close to $300.00 that will stand up in the marine environment. I have a tablet PC and you can't even see it in the sun so it must be used in the cabin. Also most laptops will draw considerably more current than a dedicated chart plotter..

A Raymarine C-70 draws about .75 amps per hour of use. My laptop burns anywhere between 2.7 and 7 amps per hour depending on the software being run..

 

[Franklin]

Make sure you get a daylight readable touch screen. I have yet to see one for anywhere close to $300.00 that will stand up in the marine environment.

That's why you have to build a case for it.

Also most laptops will draw considerably more current than a dedicated chart plotter..

very rarely do you stare at the chart plotter. Most times the GPS is used for just the SOG and the COG. When you want to see the charts, just press the power button on the monitor and move your finger to bring the laptop off stand-by. When you just want the SOG and the COG, just look at the little handheld GPS mounted there.

If you want to go real hi-tech, don't use the laptop. Get a marine computer and mount it near the nav station and also hook in your other instruments and get some good marine software for it and polar charts. Then the computer can tell you not only how fast you are going, but how fast you should be going, the percentage of your effecency, and so on. My neighbor has this and it's awesome. Can get these computers for $500.

As for the monitors in sunlight, yes, you have to be careful not to get a weak one but they do make them.

 

[sailaway78]

Raymarine

About the only thing going at this time for auto pilot, with a reasonable cost, is the Raymarine unit. The S2 is the latest available, with a new X5 due out at sometime in the future. They have been promising the X5 for months, and still it isn't available. I have the S2 and it does very well. And it does seem to learn your individual boat. From what I understand the only difference in the S2 and the X5, is the gyro which is built into the X5, allowing it to work without the rudder sensor. Depending on your boat, the rudder sensor can be a real bitch to get installed, and the S2 will not work without it. Adding the gyro to the S2, which allows you to eliminate the rudder sensor is a 400 buck added expense, plus sending the computer in to Raymarine. As for the chartplotter, I am a big Garmin fan, as I feel they are much more user friendly than the Raymarine's. But if I already had Ray equipment on the boat, and wanted to let them talk to each other, I would certainly stay with Raymarine.

 

[Franklin]

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...?EdpNo=3610484&csid=ITD&body=MAIN#detailspecs

This is the monitor I'm thinking of getting. It doesn't say that it's 12 volt but I can tell by looking at the power connection that it does take DC so the cord must have a AC to DC converter on it just like laptops so I might get lucky that it runs on 12 volt DC and I can wire it directly to a nav station switch. I like that it only draws 22 watts and that it's thin.

The case I was planning on making is going to be made of two parts: 1) the frame which will be made of 1/4 plywood and then covered with fiberglass and then gelcoat so it will look like the boat came with it. 2) a very thin plastic clear face to cover the front side of the monitor. The frame will have a bracket that can be bolted to the rail at the helm. The back side will have an overlapping (kind of like the back of a rain jacket) to allow airflow. The space between the overlapping layers will have foam filter to filter out the salt from the air. I figure the cost of these materials will be about $100 including ther resin, hardner, glass, wood and gelcoat.

Then just another $30 in cables and I'm all set to plug in the monitor to a laptop or marine computer at the nav station.

While I was looking for the bookmark of the marine PC for $500 that I want to buy I found this...a car PC with 7" monitor for just $400 that draws less than an amp (http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl;jsessi...34Pa38Ta38Obhb0?it=A&id=403&sc=8&category=101)

 

[alexco38]

Been there done that and a waste of time. I had car PC with gps and touch screen etc. Screen are not bright enough, not water, rain, humidity proof. Typing with a stylus on a pitching boat is a pain. The high quality VGA cable is thick and clog up the inside of the SS tube. All in all, not a very good solution for me.

Finally gave up when I saw a Cobra chartplotter on sale for $399 and C-Map NT+ for $200 that covers all of the great lakes. Just one wire to install.
http://www.cobra.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=255&category_ID=15

Added a RAM motocycle mount for the rail for about $30.
http://www.gpscity.ca/search-rammotorcycle309

The chartplotter was so smart, it even blink at the same color, frequency and interval as lighted buoys. I discovered that the last time we did night sail.

 

[Franklin]

I had car PC with gps and touch screen etc. Screen are not bright enough....

Do you have a bimini? I would think the car PCs would work in decent light, but maybe not sunlight directly on the screen. They are designed to work outside but with overhead cover. I know I had problem with my old marine GPS in direct sunlight but that didn't happen that often on my boat as I have a hugh bimini. I think there are anit-glare stuff that can solve this problem too.

humidity proof.

ummm....say what? I don't think my TV or laptop or any of my electronics down below is humidity proof. Sounds like you were already mentally defeated before you tried. I don't give up that easily.

As for typing...that's part of the reason I want something bigger then the 7" screen. I don't think I'm going with a car PC but I'm just trying to point out possibilities. I still like the idea of a 15" monitor at the helm tied to a marine computer at the nav station as you can get a lot more detail on the screen. The bigger the screen, the bigger the keys are and you can use your fingers. I'm not saying this solution is for everybody, but it is definately a cheap improvement as you can do a lot more with a computer then you can a chartplotter for the same price (that chart plotter is now $700) or lower.

 

[rpwillia]

Wow, I am a bit overwhelmed by all the great ideas. I especially like the Cobra plotter where the buoys blink at the same interval. That was what was just bugging me was that on my Garmin 176 in B/W it is hard to see the buoys which was what I was looking for. Plus the dimmest setting is still a bit too bright for night work.

I have seen the X5 advertised and it is about the same price as the S1. I have heard the rudder sensor on the Catalina 310's is not too bad to install. Also I do have a bimini, but daytime is not my problem as I can see the buoys - it is the dusk/night ops and the unlighted buoys I need the chartplotter/color GPS for.

On a somewhat related question, what do people think of the Lowrance XOG 3.5" touch panel. In looking at the box the charts look pretty readable. I was fairly impressed that it had tides which I use a lot and the only thing it appeared to lack was an anchor alarm, but I can just keep the garmin for that. That would also fit my form factor.

 

[alexco38]

I do have a hugh Bimini. Last Summer we went into a squall and every thing got wet. Rain doesn't just come down vertically. I even put a ziplock bag over the monitor but it still got wet and quit. That's when I switch to the Cobra chart plotter. I didn't want to throw good money at a bad solution.

Compare the obvious:
Cobra chartplotter: $399 (on sale) C-Map MAX ($200), Draws 6W, 10-35 volt
There are other chartplotters but this one happen to be on sale.

Car PC, which I still have:
Barebone kit ($239) Draws 40W, 12-24 volt
10" touch screen monitor ($199) Draws 9W, 11.5-13 volt (P.S. alternator output at 14.4 volt)
Delus USB GPS ($79)
Not counting a leagal version of Windows ($199) you're still out $517 even SeaClear and NOAA charts are free.

In order to do the average 5 days Lake Ontario 300 race, I would need an average of 45 watts of power which is 480 Ah (a very large battery bank). I could start the engine but only when the boat is flat (i.e. down wind) or else the engine cooling will suck air and oil starvation.

I gave up and bought a Cobra chartplotter instead. It only draw 5-6W (55 Ah for 5 days), submergible, viewable in direct sunlight even from behind (Sun doesn't always shine from the top). Incredible dimming capability.

I am staying with this solution.

My $0.02.

 

[sailingdog]

Whatever chartplotter solution you decide to go with, I would highly recommend trying it at a store to see if you find the User Interface workable or not. Some are more user friendly and intuitive than others.