Shroud tension cant be right

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Sep 14, 2010
7
Catalina 22 Tybee Island
Hello, I have a few observations regarding my standing rigging that have me puzzled.

First, when I bought my boat, a 1975, I immediately replaced the lower forward and aft stays as they has fish hooks. I ordered the new stays from Catalina Direct. Having never owned a C22 before, and therefore not knowing what is right or wrong, I simply swapped out the old and installed the new. I did notice at that time that to get the stays even remotely tight I had to thread them all the way down until there was no thread left on either turnbuckle. I have sailed this way all year with no issues. No shroud or stay was drum tight and all would be visibly loose on the leeward side when sailing.

Now, after sailing all year and learning how to sail this boat, I came across the Catalina 22 handbook and read the mast tuning section. Now, this boat never pointed as well as I thought it should but I chalked that up to the swing keel. So today I spent three hours at the slip "tuning" the mast. I do not have a Loos gauge yet so bear with me.

I centered the mast fore/aft using a weight on the main halyard. The forestay and backstay are centered within the turnbuckle. I then tightened the backstay until the weight was about 5 inches behind the mast on the boom. The book says 8" for a fin keel and 5-6 for a swing keel due to the increased weather helm inherent to the SK.

I then centered the upper shrouds using the weight as a rough guide. I then tightened them as far as I could by hand.

As per the mainsheet instructions, I then tightened the front lower stays using a screwdriver until the mast bowed 2-3" towards the bow at the spreaders. I then snugged up the aft lower shrouds as tight as I could by hand.

Note: I had to replace the open turnbuckles included with the CD kit in order to do this. The original closed turnbuckles are 1-1 1/2" shorter than the new open turnbuckles and were required to obtain the 2-3" bow. It would seem that the CD kit was about 1" to long.....

Now my mast is preloaded and has the slight rake to the rear, however;

My forestay and backstay are really tight, not drum tight, but tighter than they have ever been.

The upper stays are bottomed out but fairly tight.

The forward lower shrouds are drum tight. I mean TIGHT. They sound like a guitar string when you pluck them. This was the only way I could induce the 2-3" bow at the spreaders.

The rear lower shrouds are fairly tight.

Now, the book says that in high winds, all stays and shrouds should be really tight. I would say they are. The mast is centered with a slight aft rake and the proper bow at the spreaders. However, my upper stays are looser than my shrouds. I cannot make them any tighter. I have yet to sail this way until I get some feedback. Everything just seems to tight. Is this correct? Or even close to being correct? A friend at the dock always says to leave the rigging a little loose or the mast will snap, but he has an old Alberg 20 with a much stiffer and thicker mast.

Any ideas or comments? Thanks, Alan.
 
Oct 6, 2008
857
Hunter, Island Packet, Catalina, San Juan 26,38,22,23 Kettle Falls, Washington
Alan, I'm going to comment from memory as I sold my 80 C22 a couple of years ago and moved to a SJ23. My log is on the boat so I can get figures later in the week.
I have always set and maintained my rigging with a Loos gauge but that's not important now. First off, has your mast had a 1 inch spacer installed under it to raise it up? This was a class legal method that gave a person added life when rigging streched. If not, then this might be what you need for added adjustment. If this makes some of the shrouds too short you can then add caribeaners (sp) to lengthen where needed.
I sailed fairly hard and in higher winds and waves. I raked my mast about 4 inches with the boat floating on her lines as sailed. I only bent the mast 2 inches and have some concerns about the amount of bend you have. I had a split backstay that allowed additional bend when needed in higher winds.
If you can borrow, beg, steal or buy a Loos gauge then I can give you the numbers and tension #'s I ran.
Some of the early 22's had problems with the compression post under the mast having continuity under the upper post and above the keel housing. Mine was one and the repair wasn't that hard. Less than a day and I have all the pictures on how it's done. If you have a crack in the floor on the starboard side where it steps up at the compression post base where the potty sits this is a clue. If the ceiling sags wherre the compression post meets the ceiling this is also a clue.
You want your rig tensioned but not to race standards for everyday sailing. If you have access to a gauge give me a post and I'll relay the #'s. Later if needed you can contact me for more info.
Enjoy your boat, they are sweathearts.
Ray
 
Sep 14, 2010
7
Catalina 22 Tybee Island
Thanks for the reply, there is no damage anywhere around the area that supports the mast. The mast step sits on top of the deck with no sag. I am going to loosen the stays some while trying to maintain some of the shape regarding the mast. I agree that the "tune" listed in mainbrace may be directed at racing, not casual sailing. However, being that I sail on the ocean, where high winds come out of nowhere, I would prefer to keep everything a little tight. I will soon buy a loos gauge and check everything. My boat has new stainless backing plates and 1/2" bolts on all chainplates and shroud attachment points in addition to the forestay turnbuckle attached to the bow eye. I believe the boat will handle the tension. However, I don't want to sail with rigging stress that is unnecessary. Thanks, Alan.
 
Mar 8, 2009
530
Catalina 22 Kemah,Texas
I agree thats too tight! Mine has no rake and the shrouds are slightly tighter than hand tight. I have concerns about pulling out the chainplates.

Have you potted the holes in the deck?

Have you done the lower shroud/spreader bracket upgrade?

mine is factory so I keep my rigging a little looser than I probably should.
 
Sep 14, 2010
7
Catalina 22 Tybee Island
Txtow, I assume by "potting" the holes you mean drilling them out and filling with epoxy? If so, then no, when I changed out the smaller eyebolts, the deck was completely dry so i simply re-bedded them properly. The stainless steel bracket upgrade was done as soon as I bought the boat. Basically, when I bought her for $1500- she needed restored. So, I read the entire Catalina direct catalog and applied every upgrade recommended. Being that she is sailed in the ocean, I felt it necessary to prepare her for the stress that comes with near shore ocean use. Seven miles offshore in 90' of water can make for a long swim......

I really don't see how to induce the mast pre-loading without high tension on the shrouds...maybe I should have left it alone. Sometimes to much information is worse than to little?
 
Oct 6, 2008
857
Hunter, Island Packet, Catalina, San Juan 26,38,22,23 Kettle Falls, Washington
Alan, Ray again. Here are the numbers and pound reading from my 80 C22 using a Loos guage. All wire sizes were 1/8 inch. Split backstay.

Breaking strength is 2100# so 10% eguals 210#
Forestay Loos #=32, lbs=300. Backstay Loos#=26, lbs=220.*
Port & Star upper shroud Loos=32, lbs=300.
Port & star lower forward shroud Loos=29, lbs=250.
Port & star lower rear shroud Loos=24, lbs=200
*Backstay tension measured above split.

The forestay and backstay do not need to be this tight at all. It depends on how much sag you want in the headsail. Set the upper shrouds first. Set the forward lower shrouds before the rear lowers. This gets the bend in easier. I found that these figures gave me the "prebend" in the mast that worked for my style of sailing.
I would not have any fear of taking my boat out to sea with this set-up. A C22 will reach her limits with this setting before the rigging does.
Enjoy your boat, Ray
 
Dec 23, 2008
771
Catalina 22 Central Penna.
Shroud tension

Loose shrouds will make the mast snap not tight shrouds, that’s why you do not want loose shrouds on the leeward side when sailing.

The baby stays, front and back, are there to hold the middle of the mast in that position when the sails are loaded up, so they do not have to be that tight. If you can move the center of the mast by pulling on one of the baby stays then they are all too loose. A back stay adjuster will pull the top of the mast back and bend the mast only from the top of the mast to were the baby stays are attached. In order for this to happen the front stay must be loose.

A loose front stay allows for the top of the head sail to turn back towards the stern, pushing more air across the back side of the top of the main. A loose front stay, will be tighten by using a back stay adjuster, thus putting a twist into the head sail and dumping air at it’s top. This will lower the center of gravity and thus diminish the healing amount by 5 degrees or more.
 
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