Shroud adjusters

[David Hall22685]

Ok, so I am going to replace the shrouds with 5/32" 1x19 ss wire rope. I will put thimbles at the top and possibly at the bottom. I looked at the Johnson levers for adjusters but can't afford over $200 for four of them. I have looked at various adjusters and can't figure out what goes between the shrouds and the deck. I know I need to replace the turnbuckles (and other crap) that a PO used but am not sure what is appropriate for a Mac/Venture 25. Any suggestions?

 

[Sumner]

If the picture above that you posted before is your boat you have most of what you need right there. You just need the other plates with holes that attach to the shrouds with thimbles also and then attach to the slotted part of the plates above with pins.

I would think BWY should have those. I'll try and find a picture unless someone else does sooner. You don't need the Johnson lever on the shrouds. Once adjusted they just stay attached and in place with the mast up or down. Other places also have them,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[Timo42]

My recommendation would be turnbuckles, as I have said before, but if you want the oem adjusters, I think I still have mine somewhere, let me know if you want them. You only need a johnson lever on the forestay and even if you don't use turnbuckles on the shrouds, you should have one there. But given the shape your existing rigging is in, I would recommend a rigger or BWY, you don't want to break your stick because something isn't the right length. Looks like BWY has the shrouds with the part of the adjuster that you are missing for about $40 each. That's probably a quarter of what a shroud with turnbuckles and swageless fittings will run you.

 

[caguy]

As Timo42 pointed out you only need the Johnson bar on the forestay. You can use the oem turnbuckle if you are not going to be taking it down regularly.
The oem veneer chainplates work but are a PITA to adjust. Once the are adjusted they stay put and don't need readjusting. Replacing them with turn buckles is well worth the money and makes it fast and easy to adjust the stays. 1/4'' turn buckles can be bought on ebay as well as the Johnson bar. You should get yourself a Model A Loos Gauge. I has both the gauges necessary for accurate tension.

 

[timebandit]

Here is the part you are missing

 

[Justin_NSA]

More stuff to fail if you ask me. Just run the proper length shrouds back to the OEM adjusters.

 

[David Hall22685]

Right you are! One picture is worth 1000 words. Thanks. Now, what is OEM? I have a Johnson on the fore of course and am thinking about working on the backstay as well, but for now, replacing the side stays are enough. On the little Hunters we use the Johnsons for all four but then they are much cheaper. One other question: On the Hunter 170 we use ball lock pins on the shrouds for ease of transport. Do you all remove the shrouds at the deck level for transport or leave them in place? I know that removing them makes it easier to wrap up things at the end of the day as it does with the Hunter. However, i get the idea that with the Mac 25 people leave them attached.

 

[MrMikey64]

OEM generally refers to original equipment - that supplied by the manufacturer.
As to the second part of your question, most people I've talked to only disconnect the forestay when lowering the mast for storage or trailering.

 

[Sumner]

.... Do you all remove the shrouds at the deck level for transport or leave them in place? I know that removing them makes it easier to wrap up things at the end of the day as it does with the Hunter. However, i get the idea that with the Mac 25 people leave them attached.

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-6.html

We leave everything attached. A lot quicker and easier that way. The stock side adjusters are pretty easy to get right. Just pull the forestay with the mast raising block and tackle or release the Johnson lever and move them a hole or so. Use a phillips screw driver in another set of holes to help get to a new hole if you need to. Once you have them set just leave them alone.

We also got a loos gauge and I found out that our rigging was not as tight as it should of been even though I'd tightened it up after we got the boat. I think that is a good investment even if you don't use it often.

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[David Hall22685]

Ok, so if I buy a loos guage, does it tell you what the tension should be or only what it is?

 

[Sumner]

Ok, so if I buy a loos guage, does it tell you what the tension should be or only what it is?

It has a chart that suggests tension for different size wire for the forestay and shrouds. I'm close now, but will be interested in what others are doing with regards to the recommendations.

One thing I wonder about is that I increased the forestay from 1/8th to 5/32nds and wonder if I should now use the recommended tension for the 5/32nds or stay with what it was for the 1/8th?

As I said before the rigging is a lot tighter now than when I got the boat. When we were in Canada a guy told me how he adjusts rigging by pulling on it (not real scientific) and after seeing how tight his was I tightened ours up there. After getting the gauge I found I was still not as tight as recommended by the chart with the gauge.

From my experience I'll bet there are a lot of boats out there that don't have the rigging as tight as recommended. I do feel better now that I've used the gauge,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

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[oreana123]

Because of the design of my D model, I have little fear of damage to the deck under the mast (which is right above the daggerboard trunk, a very rigid construct). I tighten the crap out of my rigging. I have one restriction: when I am through tightening everything up, I want a straight mast, even if it is raked.
What does tight rigging get you? First of all, a tight rig avoids the instantaneous shock loads that a loose rig can create. Anything that keeps the forestay straight, makes the foresail much more efficient. (next time you are sailing in a breeze, sight along your forestay to see the curvature induced by the pressure on the foresail). John S

 

[Sumner]

......I want a straight mast, even if it is raked.

What does tight rigging get you? First of all, a tight rig avoids the instantaneous shock loads that a loose rig can create..

Thanks for the input on the "straight" mast. That is what I've now tried to do by messing with the fore and aft shroud.

The part about loading is also a good point. It takes more force to stop something that has started moving than to hold it stationary.

John do you have a gauge? Do you know what the tension numbers are on your rigging and if so would you share them?

Thanks,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

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[timebandit]

Just remember that a boat on the trailer is not the same boat on the water.

 

[oreana123]

Hi Sum
I don't have a cable tension gauge. I would seriously try to get my entire rig as tight as possible, within reason. The problem with this for trailer rigs that are set up and taken down frequently, is that the forestay becomes hard to pin, even with the turnbuckle completely open. Sure one can put on a Johnson lever and sacrifice the lower 12 inches of the forestay (I have hanked on headsails). With the sidestays hardened up on my rig, the mast comes to a point that no amount of pushing will give the forestay any more length. At that point I just man up and make the pin. From there, I have the full travel of the tbuckle to set ultimate rig tension. Let's face it, the forestay opposes the sidestays, ignoring the backstay (which only bends the mast above the hounds anyway).

Now that my rig has become more complex with the addition of the sprite and masthead forestay, I find that I set all of the tension on the standard rig, then I pull on as much tension as reasonable on the backstay adjuster. The size of the foremost sail is going to deflect the masthead forestay no matter what, and I want to minimize the curvature. I plan to set up cunninghams on the 2 foresails to control luff tension, leaving the rig adjustments alone once set up. John S

 

[Justin_NSA]

I have the Loos gage. If you try to tighten the shrouds using their instructions for the wire gauge thickness on the Mac it's too much. I actually split the wood handled adjustment tool from BWY trying to achieve the recommended tension.
BWY has instructions on how to tension a Mac. What the Loos gauge gives you is consistency. You can check for equal tension on both sides.

http://bwyachts.com/rig_tuning_tips.htm

 

[JDK]

I'm lazy, so we don't adjust anything...ever. Our rig is tight, with a block and tackle backstay that gets snugged when we have the mast up, but not adjusted after that. When we put the mast up, we use a block and tackle setup connected into the triangular metal piece that is meant to go in the pole assembly to assist in raising the mast. (We don't use a pole, rather I horse it up to shoulder height and my wife pulls it on up with the block and tackle.) Once it's up, she continues to haul in on the line to get just a bit extra so that she can pin the forestay and that's it. It's tight, doesn't move, and is easy to take down and put up, which we do at least once a week.

I've checked it with a Loos, and it shows to be Loos-er than what they recommend, but I think it would be too tight if set to their recommendation. YMMV

This may not be for everyone, but it works well on our D.

thx
JDK