Shredding V belts

[njlarry]

I am having three problems with the V belt on my m25-XPB Universal.
1) The engine keeps shredding black rubber powder all over the front. I took off the belt today and using a straight rod placed in each pulley it appears that the circulating water pump and the alternator pulleys are in line but the crankshaft pully is about 1/4 inch fore (or was it aft-damn!) of the circulating water pully. Is there any way to fix this? If I shim out the water pump pulley it will be out of alignment with the alternator.

2) The alternator ajjustment bracket is a little too short to thighten the belt proberly. I have been using smaller belts because of this but it means taking the alternator all thee way off to change belts.

3) Thanks to my Sherwood pump with only 99.1 hours on it there is rust on the crankshaft pulley. Is there a correct way to remove the rust?

Engine history. It was new in 2010 but the PO only put FIVE hours on it. Last season was my first with it and I put 94 more hours on it.
Thank you for any help.

 

[Scotty C-M]

NJLarry. This is a basically good engine design … your problems can be fixed.

I'd start by getting some information. Look at the Catalina34 International Association website. There is a wealth of information there about this engine, and also the specifics about the fan belt, pully allignment and the water pump. Also look for information about the alternator arm. Look under the Critical Upgrades section, as well as engine 101.

This is a very common engine. Do you have anyone near you that has the same engine? Anyone who you can talk to? Any local mechanic with lots of experience on that particular engine?

It's been a couple of years since I've owned that egine, and I can't recall it enough to give you specific information. I do know, however, that I had no problems with the belt system. I know that there is some discussion about the alternator arm and the Sherwood pump. You'll find those on the C34IA. I hope Stu J. jumps in here - he knows a lot about the issues you're asking about.

I hope this is of some help. Good Luck at 'Ya.

Scotty

 

[Stu Jackson]

Larry,

Here's a link to what Scotty suggested. http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.msg55087.html#msg55087

 

[njlarry]

Thank you guys. Stu, that was a great link with some really good info but I have the M25-XPB which I think is more like the M35? Anyway my Alternator bracket is very different and has no place to shimm. Did I miss something? Also it seems that it is the crankshaft pully that is not in allignment with the other two. The water pump and alternator pulleys are in allignment.
I hope this is something that can be fixed.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Larry, the 310 skippers on this forum have the XPB engines. You might want to ask them.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Just guessing here but did you upgrade the alternator????
If you are pushing more than 50 amps you need 2 belts and a single belt will "get dusted"
depending on how long the run is between the pulleys (longer is better) you may not even have an alignment problem. Anything over 20" should not cause a whole lot of problems with a Vee belt. Serpentine is a whole different story BTW.

 

[Stu Jackson]

2) The alternator ajjustment bracket is a little too short to thighten the belt proberly. I have been using smaller belts because of this but it means taking the alternator all thee way off to change belts.

3) Thanks to my Sherwood pump with only 99.1 hours on it there is rust on the crankshaft pulley. Is there a correct way to remove the rust?

2) I have to drop the alternator to put a new belt on it all the time. I don't have to take the pivot bolt off, though. If this is something you have to do regularly, it's a true PITA, and based on your #1) I can understand that. I hope you get answers from the 310 guys on your alignment issues.

3) It sounds like your pump is leaking, which means the seals. As discussed on this and many other boating forums, Sherwood pumps simply suck. Replace it with an Oberdorfer, discussed just recently on the C310 forum right here on this website. http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=168363 Smitty's website has a wealth of information, too. https://svsmitty.wordpress.com/

Removing rust? Eliminate the source, Naval Jelly works as does a bronze wool brush with elbow grease, and some touch up paint.

 

[njlarry]

Thanks Bill. I didn't know about the 20 inch factor but in this case the lenght is much shorter than 20 inches. I believe it is the orginal standard alt that was shipped with engine.
You are right Stu and I already have the Oberdorfer replacement. Not looking forward to removing those small flange clamping bolts on the Sherwood as there is no access for a socket. Also they seem to be metric. Hope they are corrosion free and not over torqued.

 

[njlarry]

Stu, I haven't heard from any 310 sailors yet but I look forward to trying the navy jelly and brush on the crankshaft pulley.

 

[jssailem]

njlarry
I'm not a Universal guy, but I have learned that the out of alignment issue can happen on Perkins, like mine.

My friend was going through belts, discovered his Alternator (or Dynamo as the Brits call them) bracket was bent. This kicked the alternator out of alignment to the crank shaft. His mechanic seeing this got a new bracket and realigned the alternator pulley.

I just replaced my coolant water pump. The belt was chewed up a bit. Cause appears to be the wobble in the water pump pulley as the bearing wore out. In order to reinstall the water pump I have to pull the pulley on the old pump off to place on the new pump. The manual cautions to press the pulley on after measuring the distance of the pulley to the old pump case. This is to align the pulley on the new pump with the alternator and crank shaft pulleys under the belt. Alignment is accomplished by the distance the pulley is pressed onto the pump shaft.

It seems to me you can use these ideas to align your belt to the crank shaft.

 

[njlarry]

Thanks. I may have to shim out both the alt and the water pump pulleys. I am waiting to hear from Universal.

 

[sailaway78]

Have you checked

Have you any way to check and be sure the crank pulley has not moved out, or was not installed properly. I am not sure about the universal, but most crank pulleys are just a keyed, semi press fit, and the bolt both pulls it in and holds it tight. Might give that a look see, before you modify a bunch of other stuff.

 

[njlarry]

Amazing that you should mention that. Just today I was on the phone with Rick from Western Desiel and he suggested the same possibllity. I can't wait to get to the boat to check it out. The engine only has 148 hrs on it.
Will update when I find the answer.

 

[jssailem]

Just wondering. Did you find an answer to your belt shredding or just put a new one on and went sailing?

 

[njlarry]

Thanks for paying attention. I haven't posted an update because I still do not have an answer. Here's where it stands so far;
After many calls with Western Diesel but no answer, I had our marina's mechanic look in to it. He and the marina are both Univeral/westerbeke certified so I have to trust him. He at first thought that there may have been too much play in the crankshaft (under 200 hrs on it) due to a bad thrust bearing (add one sleepless night). He later measured it with a dial gauge and found it only .006" with a factory spec of .013" allowed. He also felt that the pulleys where in alignment but that the crankshaft surface was rough so he smoothed it with I think scotch bright. He also put a new Westerbeke belt on. I had been using NAPA belts as they were easily available. He also cleaned all the old dust off the engine. With only a few hours on it I have seen a few specs of belt dust on the white raw water strainer housing. New or old dust? The boat is on the hard and winterized now so I will not know the result till spring. I will update then. In the mean time I am open to any suggestions remembering that this is a M25-XPB with a totally different alternator mounting than other M25s. I am looking forward to somehow finding the cure as the belt dust is not good for the alternator.

 

[jssailem]

You guys have to go south or secure for winter. I do not give my trust to "BMW's" (boat marina workers) lightly. I have become a believer in the Missourians "Show Me State" philosophy (used to describe the character of Missourians - not gullible; unwilling to believe without adequate evidence) after a bad experience.

No experience with the M25-XPB. I'm becoming intimate with the Perkins 4.107 nestled in my boat. When you break the winter cocoon next spring if you could use a strobe light to expose any wobble in the belt, pulleys or shafts of the associated system. I have found that such wobble sometimes shows up in the flicker of the strobe light. My flashlights have a strobe setting. I used them to disclose the wobble in my alternator. I expected it to be in the same place with each flicker of the strobe. When it moved I new there was an issue. Got the idea from the old timing light I had to use on my car.

May work. May not. but an easy non invasive thing to check.
Best of luck.

 

[njlarry]

Thank you. I will update this thread when I get more info.

 

[woodster]

Thanks for paying attention. I haven't posted an update because I still do not have an answer. Here's where it stands so far;
After many calls with Western Diesel but no answer, I had our marina's mechanic look in to it. He and the marina are both Univeral/westerbeke certified so I have to trust him. He at first thought that there may have been too much play in the crankshaft (under 200 hrs on it) due to a bad thrust bearing (add one sleepless night). He later measured it with a dial gauge and found it only .006" with a factory spec of .013" allowed. He also felt that the pulleys where in alignment but that the crankshaft surface was rough so he smoothed it with I think scotch bright. He also put a new Westerbeke belt on. I had been using NAPA belts as they were easily available. He also cleaned all the old dust off the engine. With only a few hours on it I have seen a few specs of belt dust on the white raw water strainer housing. New or old dust? The boat is on the hard and winterized now so I will not know the result till spring. I will update then. In the mean time I am open to any suggestions remembering that this is a M25-XPB with a totally different alternator mounting than other M25s. I am looking forward to somehow finding the cure as the belt dust is not good for the alternator.

i am sitting here wondering if the alt bracket upgrade would help stop that ..i do know it is beefier based on what i have read in the past years might not hurt to research that and see if there is any wisdom in that problem

 

[njlarry]

Thanks Wooster. The m23-xpb already has a very robust alt bracket. Wish I had a pic to post. It is a small solid machined piece with not much room to flex or bend.