Should I buy an RV Instead?

[Denis]

I have NO sailing experience... but have been Reading, talking to anyone I can.Here's the scenario. I've been fortunate enough to take a few years (or the rest of my life) off. I now am 36 and have one wife, and two children (ages one and three).My question is:My wife and I want to "get away" for a while and are considering purchasing a sailboat. Neither of us have sailed before. Our plans are to stick around FL and the keys to learn (we'll also hire an instructor) and learn to sail before going too far from a Marina.Am I crazy?... should I stick to an RV We've been looking at new and used 40' sailboats.We're quick learners, I'm mechanically inclined, but do not want to immediately put my family in DANGER due to outright lack of knowledge. Excuse me for the "casual" outlook, but wouldn't a sailboat be a "powerboat" unless we're actually using the sails?Please be brutally honest. I am SURE you all have much experience, and I DO NOT mean any disrespect.I'm from PA.

 

[Frank]

Learn to sail Charter

Try a learn to sail charter it will tell you a lot without the intial investment of a boat. you can try out several boats over several different charters and form your own opinnion, By the way, one should never yell when learning to sail with your spouse and children.

 

[steven f.]

totally agree

I agree with the first response, I would steer you and your family towards a charter/sailing school first. See if you are even interested in sailing before you spend the endless thousands of dollar$ (and it is endless, the money never stops flowing in a boat). There are many good charter companies in Fla, I personally know of one in SW fla (the Charlotte Harbor area). Its called Wind Quest and they use only brand new boats (41' I believe). An instructor will teach you and your wife everything from the basics up. By the way, I'm not affiliated with them in any way, just friends with the owner. As for your choice between a motor home and a boat, go for the adventure, go sailing!! Anyone can drive a bus to Yellow Stone and stand in line with the other drones. Life is short and we are only borrowing time on this planet, enjoy every minute you can while you can. Now for the power boat thing, yes, if your in a sailboat that is motoring than your in a motorboat but the true Sea Ray boaters will still look down their noses at you just because your a sailor. Many sailors simply motor up and down the ICW, occasionally putting up their sails. There's nothing wrong with that if it's what you choose to do. Keep in mind what type of boating you will truly do, not what you THINK you might do when you buy a boat. If your an ICW cruiser than you probably wont need a rugged blue water cruiser. If you are looking to cross oceans than get a boat that can do that safely. And finally, NEVER yell at your wife and kids (crew), most skippers who yell the loudest probably know the least about sailing and certainly know little about human relationships. Work as a team, you both should be able to operate the boat if something should happen to the other. Good luck, you have one hell of an adventure ahead of you if you pick sailing.

 

[mg]

learning

go with the boat but understand that sailing is a skill and requires competencies in several areas .you will do a lot of studying as well as need lots of practice, and all that takes time , sure you can learn to get the boat moving in a couple of outings with an instructor but to actually competently handle the boat could and will take several years of experience . and then you will find out that there is even that much more to learn. but that is the allure of sailing. its not so much a getaway but a lifelong devotion to learning ,practice, adventure ,comraderie, and a feeling of personal freedom of being totally responsible for yourself and your boat . it feels great and you wont get THAT in a motor home. so start learning how to sail in a school then with friends and on your own small boat( 18 to 22 foot cabin boat is excellent) for a year or so , make your mistakes in a safe environment .then buy the bijgger boat and head out for that cruise . oh yes NEVER yell at the wife and kids . chances are they will not want to learn as much as you do which means that they will not be a competent as crew members as you would like. when i sail with the family i consider them passengers and if they help great if not ,im not disapointed . good luck .

 

[Phil Herring]

Park the RV

Compare driving down an asphalt hiway and parking in a crowded campground with sailing on clear water and anchoring in small harbor... you'll never regret the boat. If you've got the bucks, book a crewed charter in the British virgin Islands with The Moorings or another good charter company. See if you like the lifestyle and if the skills seems managable. It's not that hard, and even a modest amount of skill and common sense will keep you out of danger. Go for it! If you'reinterested enough to post this question you're already hooked!

 

[Denis]

I'm not the yelling type.

Thanks ALL for the input. My wife and I have been going to Sailboat Shows for the past three years and DREAMING of doing this. It is now coming on the time. I noticed everyone said not to YELL!! Even though I use caps to make a point, I am not the yelling type.I am looking into charter companies for January Thanks again. Now, how much $$$ goes into a boat

 

[thomas e mcnamara]

RVS ARE FOR CAB DRIVERS

I WAS A POWER BOATER FOR 30 YEARS AND LAST YEAR WE BOUGTH A NEW 45FT SAIL AND ILL NEVER REGRET IT,OF COURSE WE ARE LIVE ABOARDS ON LONG ISLAND AND WHEN IM BETTER WILL GO TO THE BAHAMAS. WE HAVE HAD MANY DISCUSSIONS ABOUT RVS AND UNLESS YOU ARE GOING FOR VACATION WHAT GOOD ARE THEY,TRAFFIC,LIGHTS TOLLS,TICKETS AND CONFINMENT.WITH GOOD SAILING EGUIPMENT, AUTO PILOT YOU CAN HAVE A GREAT TIME. THE BIG PROBLEM IS HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT TO SPEND. THE LARGER THE BOAT THE MORE FORGIVING IT IS. I TOOK SAILING LESSONS AND ONLY GAINED CONFIDENCE AND MAKE SURE IRAISE AND LOWER SAILS INTO THE WIND, THE REST I LEARNED BY ASKING QUESTIONS, FRIENDS, AND WHEN MY ENGINE STOPPED ONE DAY[USE FUEL ADDITIVE]

 

[Denis]

Only reason I considered an RV -

The only reason I even considered an RV is that my inexperience wouldn't put my family in danger. I don't like RVs (over sailboats) because it makes us feel like such consumers. And I'm sure sailing from point A to B is much more the pleasure than driving there. If we were to get an RV, we would do the same thing my wife and I used to do when we didn't have kids. We'd go in the middle of nowhere and take the 4 wheelers and/or a Jeep (even though it's a chrysler) with us.I'd much rather learn to sail. I REALLY appreciate all the advise here.My wife and I are looking at a Catalina 42 today. I've seen it already, but this is the first for my wife. It's the three cabin layout. Previously we were looking at a Tayana. We'll also be going to the Sailboat Show in Atlantic City in Jan, then probably on to a Crewed Charter.Any additional input would be appreciated. Does anyone want to trade a luxury car for their sailboat?

 

[Been there]

Sailors are consumers to the max

There is the romantic vision of Annie and Pete Hill, making a well-found boat with their own hands from plywood, cloth, and resin, with simple rig also handmade from wood and scraps of cloth, on which they live for years fulfilling great dreams at little expense. Then there is the truth for the rest of us. We sail expensive boats, driven by large diesels and complex rigs, full of electric gizmos, costing as much as many a house. Annie and Pete would live on what most of us pay in slip and moorage fees. And it's not just the up-front cost that makes us high consumers. The frequent purchase of line, lights, hardware, plumbing, wires, and connectors make West Marine our largest monthly vendor. Some stuff is to maintain our complex vessels. Some of it is just nice nice doo-dads. Then there are annual haul-outs, bottom jobs every three years, and rebedding ports every five (if you own a newer Hunter). Then it's time to think about an upgrade. Wouldn't radar be nice for those night sails? (Yes.) And AC for those hot nights? (Yes.) And a generator to power the AC. (Yes, yes, and yes.) Before you know it, you have a trawler that sometimes is driven by sail.Sometimes I think we should sell the boat and buy an RV. So we don't feel like such consumers.

 

[bailey]

RV vs. sailing and inexperience

Hi Denis,Well, I'm almost in your exact position... we are buying a first boat, we have found an O'Day 322 we like... and I have sailing experience in only very small boats and my husband has tons of big boat experience (HA in the Navy for 12 years) but he has virtually NO sailing experience. We too are sailing with young kids.I'm pretty sure that we love sailing so we aren't going the charter/learning route, my brother has lived aboard for 25 years (currently in a 50' Pearson) and I've spent some time on his boat. So we are ready to invest some money in a boat.Here is some advice for you. I personally think 40+ feet is a little big to start with, but that is only my personal opinion. I'd start reading everything I could about sailing and take every class I could find about sailing, safety and navigation. Try and get as complete an education about sailing theory before you get on a boat.Then take actual sailing classes, around here you can start with small centerboard type boats or keelboats. Heck, I'm doing both. You can also find sailing schools/captains that will give you lessons aboard your own boat.If you don't want to put your family in danger (and safety is the most important thing to me too) once you have done all of the above and feel comfortable taking the boat out locally only do it in beginner weather. Check and double check your weather reports, learn everything you can about weather, clouds and your local weather. Talk to knowledge people constantly and don't be afraid to admit your inexperience.Tell someone where you are planning on going and give them an estimate of when you will be back from your sail. Cover every base. Know what to do in an emergency and practice with your family. If you plan a sail and the weather is rougher than you expected just go to the boat and spend the day in the slip working on the boat (always something to do). Hope this gives you some ideas, an RV is for one type of person and sailing is for another, decide before you invest which type you are.Good luck, bailey

 

[Rick Webb]

Thanks again. Now, how much $$$ goes into a boat ?

All of it.

 

[LaDonna Bubak - Catalina Owners]

Boats are probably safer than RVs

Not that you see a lot of accident reports about RVs but given the state of our highways, you're probably much safer on the water. You've received several suggestions to charter, which is a great idea. You can also go down to the local marina and sign up as crew for the local races. You'll get to know folks with a vast amount of knowledge AND you'll get experience. You'll come to see the differences between different boats and come to your own conclusions about what you like.Don't take this comment as discouraging but you most likely will not keep the first boat you buy. Either it will be too big, too small, underbuilt, overbuilt, not enough stuff, too much stuff, too old, too young, etc, etc, etc. Unless you're in a big rush to move aboard, take a few months to sail on several different boats, figure out what your ultimate plans are and decide on what you want in a boat. There's nothing worse than rushing into a purchase (especially this big of one) and later regretting it. Catalinas are good boats with good resale value. If you buy older ones, you often can get exactly what you paid for it. But if your ultimate goal is to cross the Atlantic or round Cape Horn, you'll probably be wanting a "bluewater" boat. That's not to say you shouldn't buy a Catalina as your first boat, just be aware of the limitations of any boat. As far as size is concerned, keep in mind that the bigger the boat, the more she costs. That includes moorage fees, maintenance and insurance. They also can limit the places you go. A boat that draws 4' can go to exponentially more places than one with 6' draft.From your posts, I would suggest holding off on buying right now. Look at as many different boats as possible. Sail on as many boats as possible. Don't just read (but that is important), talk to people at marinas who've done what you want to do. Take a deep breath and just enjoy the journey!LaDonna

 

[Dick Vance]

Desire And The Learning Curve

Denis,You've already crossed two of the biggest hurdles to an accelerated sail learning experience; time and money! Next comes the actual education and discovery of whether you, your wife and children are ready to commit that time and those dollars. The only way to know this is to do it. The suggestions for courses and chartering are excellent and should be done before sinking (pun intended) big bucks into a boat. Sailing really isn't for everyone and sometimes, unfortunately, one spouse loves it and the other hates it. Happy indeed is the couple that both love sailing!I would recommend a deliberate plan to go step by step before buying the boat: First, take a basic keelboat course together; then take one of the week long liveaboard coastal cruising and bareboat charter courses together. By the end of those courses, you will have gained valuable sailing skills and probably most importantly, learned what its like for the two of you to spend a week together, under the stress of the course situation, in a living space smaller than most RV's. Essentially, this would be a crash course in sailing and togetherness in the sailing environment. I don't mention the children at this point as it is most important that the two of you learn to manage a sailboat and find out if its for you. The kids will adapt and learn to love what their parents like! Children aboard is a whole 'nuther subject that comes after the parents learn to sail!This sailing and learning experience will also give you the knowledge you need to buy the boat that suits you and your family's plans and needs. Not that the Cat 42 wouldn't be a good boat, its just that after exposure to several others and actually sailing them, you might find that another boat suits you better. Its not just the cabin layout but the way a boat handles and accomodates your personal living aboard that counts. You should ALWAYS have a boat surveyed before buying but, after you've done some sailing and cruising , you will be in a much better position to evaluate the boat yourself. Buying a new boat might avoid some of the possible mechanical or structural defects or damage a used boat might have but buying new also requires a fair amount of knowledge in deciding which accessories and equipment you need to equip the boat for your kind of sailing. The traditional, and probably the better way, is to progress through crewing with others; learning small boat handling; then a bigger boat; then a bigger boat; etc., learning over several years the skills and acquiring experience you need to go cruising. Given that you have the time, you can accelerate the process by utilizing sailing schools, chartering and doing as much sailing as possible as crew on others' boats.I can speak to this from my own experience. A long time powerboater, I sailed for the first time later in life than you with far less leisure time available. I crewed with others; bought a 20' boat; took an ASA Basic Keelboat course; took a 7 day ASA liveaboard Coastal Cruising and Bareboat Charter course involving sailing from Ft. Lauderdale to the Keys and back; bought a bigger boat; all in a 6 month period of time! My particular goal wasn't to go cruising, because of my work, but I wanted to be able to know how and be able to go chartering when and wherever I wanted to. As for the size of your first boat, assuredly, sailing a smaller boat is initially cheaper and, in some respects, easier. The loads on lines and rigging is lighter on smaller boats and there is less momentum to deal with. A bigger boat offers more room and stability in a seaway. Again, drawing on my own experience, after 7 days aboard a 39' boat (we only stepped on land one evening for dinner) I was comfortable handling the boat and its size. In fact, with 5 adults on board, it was beginning to feel a bit small! Now, ten years later, I sail a Hunter 25.5 on an inland lake; racing; daysailing and weekending. Its very little transition when I get to take a charter trip and take off on a 39 or 40 footer in saltwater. After getting the feel of the boat and familiarizing myself with the systems, its just fine. It sounds like you have the opportunity to do what most of us would like if we had the time and resources. I just recommend a planned approach and, if you both like it, go for it!Good luck,Dick VanceH-25.5 "Honey Bear"

 

[David Foster]

Sunfish for learning?

Firt of all, I'm a big supporter the responses I read so far. Your first task if to have fun learning. Chartering, and schools are great for this.But I learned more in a couple of hours sailing a Sunfish of Key West than in a couple of days on our Hunter 27. Everything is faster on a small boat, and the consequences of a big error are usually just getting wet for a few minutes.

 

[win]

Before buying that boat

Dennis, Before buying a boat, first arm yourself with knowledge.Buy a national sailing rag (e.g., Sail). Look at the classifieds for a sailing school that's convienent to your locale and that's associated with the ASA. Take the basic sailing course. It will give you time on the water on a relatively large boat and will cost you somewhere between $300.00 - $600.00. Both you and the wife can attend at the same time but I think each should go separately. That way, the mate/skipper relationship and knowledge skills won't be established until you're both actually sailing. Encourage your wife to think "I can skipper this thing"; one can never tell, she may have to sail the boat by herself one day. Most sailing schools also offer advanced courses which cover coastal cruising, bareboat chartering, navigation, offshore, etc. Check at the local marina for the Coast Guard Auxiliary class on seamanship. Both of you should take it. It's very inexpensive, ~$20.00 for the materials and you'll have access to experts and cover a lot of nautical knowledge items from chart reading to knot tying. Having done these things, then start to think about actually buying a sailboat in the range (40 ft) that you're considering. Do a K-T (Kepner-Traego) to narrow your choices. Then look at boats that fit the criteria that you've established. Hope this helps. aloha, win

 

[Denis]

Thanks Once Again!

Here's what I've done... and what you guys/gals have helped me plan.I've already been going to Sailboat Shows for the past two years, reading all I can and preparing to take the ASA courses.In January, I plan on going back to Ft. Lauderdale Area and taking the ASA courses without my wife. I will then look to Charter a boat with my family to see if they like the experience for a week. If it is the experience they (mostly my wife... my kids are only one and three) were looking for, I'll persue it further by sending her to school, chartering again, then looking to buy.Once again, Thank you all for the advice and helping me make "the plan". I do now have the time to put into it and have been crazy because I can't get the rest started. I was supposed to be taking classes in Ft. Lauderdale from the 14th to the 29th, but decided I didn't want ANYTHING to do with being around the election mess.

 

[Wally Boggus]

Sailboat!!!

Is an RV on water I tell my friends. Where else can you get mobile room with a constant water view. Sailng ain't that tough contrary to what some sailors would lead you believe so don't let that get in your way I would be more afraid of danger overnighting in an RV somewhere unfamilar then on water in a sailboat.w

 

[Brian Pickton]

Get an R.V.

Dec. 4, 2000I've been monitoring the responses you are getting to your inquiry with great interest, obviously there are no shortage of enthusiastic sailors willing to share there opinions with you. Oddly enough, three haven'e been any responses from ardent R.V. owners. Could it be that they don't monitor our site?Anyway, with repect, may I gently suggest that you are making a mistake. The mistake you are making is not including your wife in the learning process immediately and equally with you. It is a mistake to think that you are going to be a competant shell back after only taking a basic or introductory sailing class and that you will automatically have the experience and expertise from that one course to be able to offer your wife and children a quality experience on the water. All the first course does is give you enough hands on experience and academic knowledge to hopefully keep you from becoming a hazard to navigation. It takes a lot of time on the water to make a person a competent sailor.If what you want to do is give your wife a good quality expereince on a boat take her on a fully crewed charter. If you want her to learn about sailing make it a cruise and learn charter if she is willing. If you want your wife to be your partner on the water you want to get her involved in the learning process immediately, enthusiastically, equally.If on the other hand you think after taking an introductory sailing course that you are going to be competant enough to teach her yourself than I think your letting your enthusiasm carry you away. If she is genuinely interested she should have the opportunity to grow into sailing with you at the same time. If in fact she is not genuinely interrested enough to even consider taking lessons with you or go on a crewed chartered vacation, or if you don't want her learning along side of you then it is time to start checking out those R.V.'s.I hope

 

[Brian Pickton]

Get an R.V. continued

Dec.4, 2000Dear Denis,For no apparent reason my last reply posted itself before I was finished writing it. Anyway, to conclude I don't intend this response to be a reflection on your relationship with your wife, obviously that is not my business. What I want is for you to make sure that she is an equally enthusiastic participant before you go off half cocked and drag her off to do something she secretly dreads. Perhaps you have already done that and this advice is unnecessary, in which case I look forward to seeing you all on the water!Brian Pickton@BeneteauOwners.netAboard the Legend, Rodny Bay, St.Lucia

 

[Rodney]

Did you want to know about cost?

Denis:I cannot discuss a 40 footer, but I bought a 1996 Hunter 336 about a year ago. I paid $65,000 for the boat and how have $82,000 in it. Refridgeration, autopilot, a few other goodies. I have spent right at $5,000 this year for dockage, maintainence, insurance. As the bottom was painted just before I bought her, I have not had to haul her this year. Therefore, my average annual expenses will be higher than this year's. Just learn this rule...B-O-A-T....Break Out Another Thousand. I also want to address the comments about your wife and the sailing lessons. My wife and I did the week-long class, just the two of us, and we studied together, took the exams at the same time, and learned the material in a common envirionment. I know what she knows, how to remind her of the experience she has had, I can always say: "remember what Captian Gene said." I know what she can do, I do not have any problem giving her the helm while I handle the lines. I even know that she has a more gentle hand on the throttle than do I at the dock. Because I did not "get a head start" on her, we really are partners on the boat. Not telling you how to do things, but this approach has been a real advantage to our sailing.On the RV question. Any of us, and many others, can drive one of those big smelly things. You will be travelling with a much better group of folks, motivated in very different fashions, on a sailboat.Good luck.