I recently purchased this 1963 wayfarer islander 32 and I’m a little concerned about the fiber glass lifting up in the hull supports , could I break off the lifting fiberglass sand and lay fresh glass ? The back sides look a lot better and the pieces of plywood are only about a 1/4 inch thick how much are they even helping ? The front one has a bit of give . The hull looks great and everyone keeps telling me how strong these all fiberglass 60s boats are but the lifting glass does have me alarmed considering I have her setup to solo sail and plan to take many solo trips soon ! Any advice would help !
should I be concerned ?
- Thread starter loganmx107
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I recently purchased this 1963 wayfarer islander 32 and I’m a little concerned about the fiber glass lifting up in the hull supports , could I break off the lifting fiberglass sand and lay fresh glass ? The back sides look a lot better and the pieces of plywood are only about a 1/4 inch thick how much are they even helping ? The front one has a bit of give . The hull looks great and everyone keeps telling me how strong these all fiberglass 60s boats are but the lifting glass does have me alarmed considering I have her setup to solo sail and plan to take many solo trips soon ! Any advice would help !
To me, it looks like the fiberglass tabbing to plywood bulkheads is separating. It could be from years of flex, possible water intrusion, or standing rigging that has been incorrectly tightened. Getting a handle on the cause is important, but a fix isn't too difficult if you're able to venture into some fiberglass and epoxy work.
BTW, first photo, top left, that black hose - that kink in the bend is no good!
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The tabbing is separating and should be replaced. The most challenging part of the job will be getting in there and grinding it off.
I don't think there is an immediate danger. Tabbing can lift off like that from a variety of reasons: Too much rigging tension as said. Collision. Improper lay up. Hard grounding. In the case of the latter is there any other evidence of a hard grounding? Maybe broken tabbing or cracks around the keel stub? Displacement of the keel from the stub (Observable while on the hard)? Water ingression? A damaged keel joint would be the only reason I would forego using the boat solo or otherwise.
Make a plan to fix it DIY if you can. It's unpleasant work but not particularly hard or requiring special skills. A good angle grinder that's not too big or heavy would be a big help.
Make a plan to fix it DIY if you can. It's unpleasant work but not particularly hard or requiring special skills. A good angle grinder that's not too big or heavy would be a big help.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,914
On the issue. Tabbing. Failure. It happens. As pointed out by @nightowle multiple possible causes. It will not likely sink your boat but it will continue to fail.Boats flex and contort while riding over and through waves the tabbing is there to stiffen the hull.
As @dlochner shares you will want to replace the fiberglass tabs that connect the hull to the plywood bulkhead.
This involves removing the loose pieces. Grinding off the paint/gel coat to solid material, carefully. Wetting the area (to bond with a tab of fiberglass - the glass hull to the plywood bulkhead) with polyester or epoxy resin. Laying a wetted piece of fiberglass on the areas you are tabbing together. Then paint or gel coat to seal over the tab.
Grinding might be best accomplished with a small head air sander/grinder.
Mini Air Angle Sander,
Good luck. Wear PPE you will fill that space with fiberglass dust before your finished.
I personally wouldn't mess with that, I'd get a quote from a competent boat fiberglass guy. That dust is murder! And it's hot, and if you're not doing FG work every day it's awkward and messy. (I've done more than my fair share of it!)
The good news is that you now have an excuse to buy some new toys....In addition to a grinder (get a cordless if you don't already have one) I'd add a dremel with a cutting wheel and a multi-tool (also cordless) to my collection of tools for that job. Cut the old tab off of the plywood. You can use the dremel to notch the joint where the fiberglass tab meets the hull. Then use the multi tool to lift the tab off of the plywood. Then grind the lip of the jount until you have a smooth bevel at the joint boundry. Grind the surfaces a little where the new tab will sit to get a good bite and lay wetted fiberglass tape around the joint. I'd use epoxy as the resin and 6 oz tape. Cut the tape into 4" strips and wet each one... lay them on a piece of plastic sheeting and cary that into the boat, place the wetted tape on the groove and squeege. Overlap each piece by about an inch. Allow the resin to go off and when it is just barely tacky to the touch.... do it again but over lap the edges so that some fresh plywood is under the second layer. If the layers still seem shallow, you may need a third round. I like to buy my fiberglass materials from Jamestown Distributors. They will get on the phone with you and talk you through any technical details you may want. If you tell them what you are doing, they will recommend the right product and quantity for the job.
I went around and double checked all the rigging (I don’t have much experience)it Is in my opinion extremely tight but has slight give. Both rear bulkheads are like the this on both sides. I haven’t gotten the boat out of the water yet but plan to before any trips to double check everything . Only one of the bulkheads in the rear has play and plan to start with that one first. based off everyone’s answers I would say the likely culprit was years of water intrusion , I sanded down a spot on the bulkhead and the wood is still solid no rotting found! I’ll be down at the marina in about an hour I’ll post some more pictures any advice would be appreciated!
Thank you so much I appreciate it !!! going to post some more photos today of some other stuff I’ve found !
I appreciate the advice (this is the proper way to go about it). But If I were to go about this what type of mask /respirator would you recommend to keep me safe ?
I had a diver inspect the keel before purchasing and be said it all looked good and no signs of any damage or any signs of running aground . On a clear day I might take a dip and find out myself , (did see a shark about 5 feet from the boat the other Day) this isn’t stopping me for finding out for myself , but has definitely delayed it lol
It depends. I don't like to recommend such things as PPE, I'm not an expert. But you're going to have issues with your skin, too, so anything short of full coverage could result in pain and discomfort. And, full coverage can result in pain and discomfort!
I would leave it to a pro, who will get it done well and fast, and your lungs, eyes, and skin will be none the worse for wear.
@jviss gave the correct answer in the previous post but... here are a few things that help if you ignore it and plow ahead (which is what I have done many times -- not ignor jvis
--- plow ahead
). First thing to know is that raw resin is toxic... many people are cavalier with epoxy but you should not be... and prolonged skin exposure often leads to an alergic reaction that once you trigger... will make you sensitive for life... so... don't get it on your skin and if you do, wash it off quickly Uncured epoxy will dissolve into white vinegar. So have some nearby in case you get epoxy resin on your skin. The vinegar is also useful (with rags) to clean up messes and tools.
Wear long sleaves, eye goggles, rubber gloves and a hat.
For gloves I like to use the kind they sell for washing dishes. They go half way up your arm and with a long sleave shirt, do a good job of protecting your sking from fibers.
If you get fiberglass fibers in your skin and are having trouble washing it off, use duct tape... yes it will rip your hair off but that would be a case of "short term pain = long term gain".
For respiration PPE you need one that also absorbs organic vapors. 3M makes one and I can usually find them at Lowes or Home Depot ... it looks like this... make sure you install the organic vapor cartridge.
Most people I know hesitate because they are afraid of messing up the job. Fiberglass is VERY forgiving and if you screw something up... grind it off and try again.
A trick I use a lot is to get a piece of overhead projector vellum .. like this.
Epoxy does not stick to it... You can line the edges with masking tape (sticky side up) and then lay four to six layers of wetted fiberglass cloth on the film as needed... then take the film and fiberglass into the boat and tape it in place where you want the tabs. The vellum holds it all in place while the resin sets and when you peel off the vellum you have a nice smooth surface with minimal sanding needed before painting. I like this meathod because you can wet and squeegee in the comfort of your work shop (space) and you don't have to do this while contorting in the tight corners of your boat. It also saves time because you can do multiple layers at once and you don't have to wait between layers. For odd shaped glass projects, take the vellum to the job and trace out the space with a sharpie right onto the vellum. You now have a template for the cutting of the cloth.
Here is a pic of a hole in a boat that I fixed using the vellum meathod
And I tapped a 6-layer fiberglass patch with vellum into the hole with vellum and this is what it looked like when I removed the vellum,... you can see the vellum sheet in the bottom of the pic.
One tip to reduce the grinding mess by 94.3%...... get a cheap 3" hose shop vac. Set the hose end in place so that it's adjacent to the "out fly" of dust and stuff from the right angle grinder. Duct tape the hose in place and move it as you progress with the grinding. I have done this and *hugely* reduced the amount of fiberglass dust in the air.
BTW, epoxy will adhere just fine to the exposed frp substrate; just rough it up with some 36 or 40 grit and clean up the surface with acetone.
Rubber / latex gloves... eye protection.... ear plugs.... ! Dust mask....
BTW, epoxy will adhere just fine to the exposed frp substrate; just rough it up with some 36 or 40 grit and clean up the surface with acetone.
Rubber / latex gloves... eye protection.... ear plugs.... ! Dust mask....
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going to do the interior first !!! Will post pics of the finished product in a week or so@jviss gave the correct answer in the previous post but... here are a few things that help if you ignore it and plow ahead (which is what I have done many times -- not ignor jvis
Uncured epoxy will dissolve into white vinegar. So have some nearby in case you get epoxy resin on your skin. The vinegar is also useful (with rags) to clean up messes and tools.
Wear long sleaves, eye goggles, rubber gloves and a hat.
For gloves I like to use the kind they sell for washing dishes. They go half way up your arm and with a long sleave shirt, do a good job of protecting your sking from fibers.
If you get fiberglass fibers in your skin and are having trouble washing it off, use duct tape... yes it will rip your hair off but that would be a case of "short term pain = long term gain".
For respiration PPE you need one that also absorbs organic vapors. 3M makes one and I can usually find them at Lowes or Home Depot ... it looks like this... make sure you install the organic vapor cartridge.
View attachment 206750
Most people I know hesitate because they are afraid of messing up the job. Fiberglass is VERY forgiving and if you screw something up... grind it off and try again.
A trick I use a lot is to get a piece of overhead projector vellum .. like this.
View attachment 206751
Epoxy does not stick to it... You can line the edges with masking tape (sticky side up) and then lay four to six layers of wetted fiberglass cloth on the film as needed... then take the film and fiberglass into the boat and tape it in place where you want the tabs. The vellum holds it all in place while the resin sets and when you peel off the vellum you have a nice smooth surface with minimal sanding needed before painting. I like this meathod because you can wet and squeegee in the comfort of your work shop (space) and you don't have to do this while contorting in the tight corners of your boat. It also saves time because you can do multiple layers at once and you don't have to wait between layers. For odd shaped glass projects, take the vellum to the job and trace out the space with a sharpie right onto the vellum. You now have a template for the cutting of the cloth.
Here is a pic of a hole in a boat that I fixed using the vellum meathod
View attachment 206752
And I tapped a 6-layer fiberglass patch with vellum into the hole with vellum and this is what it looked like when I removed the vellum,... you can see the vellum sheet in the bottom of the pic.
View attachment 206753
Read up on the stitch and glue boat building technique. You could easily fix that stronger than new like that. You would essentially grind out the seam (open the gap) stitch it back together with tension And copper wires. Then epoxy the seam and run a tab of fiberglass tape among the seam from the inside.