Well, I read the posts and looked at the pictures, read the online articles, and then I went to my boat last Saturday and during some of the brief dry weather, I rigged a simple STS system. Today I got to go and test it. Today, winds were out of the South at 15-20 knots, temp was about 50 when I left the dock. Once out into the lake and heading to windward, I tried the system. After a little adjustment, It worked quite well. I got it to work such that it only changed the course of the boat 3-5 degrees at a time. Pretty good in my opinion. I bought two small harken blocks, and two brass snap swivels. The two snap swivels are tied to the startboard and port stantions. One block is looped on one of the lengths of mainsheet between the mainsheet blocks, the 2nd block is snaped to the windward snapswivel. I then have a line (solid green line) tied to the block on the mainsheet, it then runs through the block on the windward side then is tied off at the tiller. My method for tieing at the tiller was to wrap the end of the rope around the end of the tiller, and tie off with a clove hitch. This way, I can simply twist another turn on the tiller to tighten the rope (or loosen) quite easily. I was able to use this today, for about 3 solid hours, while going to windward. On the downwind run, however, the mainsheet method does not work as well. But, I was not ready to try it with the Jib sheet. maybe another time. Oh, almost forgot this. Part of the this system requires a bungie cord or something that elastic, to pull the tiller back to leward, after the mainsheet pulls the tiller to windward. So, I used a long length of 1/4" bungie cord, that I typically used to steering. I tied the cord off at each stantion (where the swivel is tied), then created a loop in the middle of the cord, that loopes over the end of the tiller. This works well, and by tieing the cord to the stantion, where the swivel is, it keeps the snapswivel in the air, so I can easily connect the block to it at each tack. Lastly, the Snapswivel/bungie cord is tied to the stantion, using some small diameter rope, running several loops from block to stantion.
Sheet to Tiller Steering
- Thread starter John P12803
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Nicely done
That's a very slick setup. I also see that the mainsheet is cleated. Do you cleat it just a little less than you need to maintain course and use the tiller and bungie to take up the rest? Peter H23 "Raven"
That's a very slick setup. I also see that the mainsheet is cleated. Do you cleat it just a little less than you need to maintain course and use the tiller and bungie to take up the rest? Peter H23 "Raven"
Congratualtions, John
That's quite an accomplishment. BTW, the reading I"ve done suggests that surgical tubing is superior to shock cord; something about the way it handles load enabling it to give a smoother, more consistent pull… Alan, sheet-to-tiler steering is a type of self-steering which connects a sail sheet to the tiller to make the boat hold a course (angle to the wind) hands-free. It's been called a "poor man's windvane," though its use pre-dates windvanes, as far as I know.
That's quite an accomplishment. BTW, the reading I"ve done suggests that surgical tubing is superior to shock cord; something about the way it handles load enabling it to give a smoother, more consistent pull… Alan, sheet-to-tiler steering is a type of self-steering which connects a sail sheet to the tiller to make the boat hold a course (angle to the wind) hands-free. It's been called a "poor man's windvane," though its use pre-dates windvanes, as far as I know.
Alan
It's a mechanical autopilot system used with tillers. I've been trying to figure out how to rig one on my boat. I would need an emergency tiller that is long enough to actually work, not the one that came with the boat. Which means, because the wheel is in the way, I'd have to either angle it or run it backwards. I saw that Freedom angles their emergency tillers so I might have one made like that. Then again...maybe not. I just fixed my autopilot (ST4000) which by next year is going to be my backup autopilot as I am looking at a below deck.
It's a mechanical autopilot system used with tillers. I've been trying to figure out how to rig one on my boat. I would need an emergency tiller that is long enough to actually work, not the one that came with the boat. Which means, because the wheel is in the way, I'd have to either angle it or run it backwards. I saw that Freedom angles their emergency tillers so I might have one made like that. Then again...maybe not. I just fixed my autopilot (ST4000) which by next year is going to be my backup autopilot as I am looking at a below deck.
Franklin, you may still need.....
... that tiller sheeting system. I tried to get a "below deck" auto pilot for my 376 and my 386, but there was no way to attach it directly to the rudder stock.... no room to do so, and, or, no place that would withstand the loads imposed. The one I ended up with is still a wheel driven system with a rotory drive tucked away in the steering console, which drives the wheel with a chain. It's a decent pilot, but I would have preferred one connected directly to the rudder. If you figure out a way, I would like to hear about it, and maybe make a change. Jeff
... that tiller sheeting system. I tried to get a "below deck" auto pilot for my 376 and my 386, but there was no way to attach it directly to the rudder stock.... no room to do so, and, or, no place that would withstand the loads imposed. The one I ended up with is still a wheel driven system with a rotory drive tucked away in the steering console, which drives the wheel with a chain. It's a decent pilot, but I would have preferred one connected directly to the rudder. If you figure out a way, I would like to hear about it, and maybe make a change. Jeff
John, I am having trouble......
...getting this to work in my minds eye ! You indicate that you have a bungee cord to pull the tiller back to leward after the mainsheet pulls it to windward. After you set the main, and the mainsheet is cleated off, how does the mainsheet pull the tiller to windward if it is cleated and cannot move? Appreciate the help and the post..... good stuff Jeff
...getting this to work in my minds eye ! You indicate that you have a bungee cord to pull the tiller back to leward after the mainsheet pulls it to windward. After you set the main, and the mainsheet is cleated off, how does the mainsheet pull the tiller to windward if it is cleated and cannot move? Appreciate the help and the post..... good stuff Jeff
I tried this as well and still need help
John, I followed the same model earlier in the season and used the surgical tubing. I used the following links to setup my system - appears to be identical to that of yours http://www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml http://www.todspages.net/SSa-SelfSteering.html That said, and with the surgical tubing, I used the mainesheet method and couldn't really figure out how to fine tune the tensions. I dont know if the mainsheet system is inferior to that of the jib sheet system, but I wonder if it has anything to do with how you tension the return and the surgical tube? If you were successful with the mainsheet system, would you mind contacting me offline I would desperatly like to find out what I'm doing wrong. I think I set everyting up as instructed, however, my main problem even in a steady wind direction is that the boat just doesn't head in a line - it keeps falling off or pointing up and this, defeats the system. I can be contacted at tonylitvak using the hotmail extension.
John, I followed the same model earlier in the season and used the surgical tubing. I used the following links to setup my system - appears to be identical to that of yours http://www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml http://www.todspages.net/SSa-SelfSteering.html That said, and with the surgical tubing, I used the mainesheet method and couldn't really figure out how to fine tune the tensions. I dont know if the mainsheet system is inferior to that of the jib sheet system, but I wonder if it has anything to do with how you tension the return and the surgical tube? If you were successful with the mainsheet system, would you mind contacting me offline I would desperatly like to find out what I'm doing wrong. I think I set everyting up as instructed, however, my main problem even in a steady wind direction is that the boat just doesn't head in a line - it keeps falling off or pointing up and this, defeats the system. I can be contacted at tonylitvak using the hotmail extension.
tony, it's the tension in the elastic
unless you've set it up completely backwards, which is most unlikely, because you are a guy who knows what he's doing. The other thing is that if you have a multipart tackle for your mainsheet, make sure to use the line that's connected to the becket, the line that moves the least so when you let out the mainsheet the connection line doesn't move through the blocks. Congratulations, JohnP, I had that rig on my C25 from 1987 to 1992. It was great going upwind, and I never did get around to doing the jib sheet connection. The C25 mainsheet is so well placed for doing this. One of the MOST important things about this system is that it TEACHES you good sail trim. If your sails are trimmed well for the course you are on, this system works great with the right strength of bungee cord or surgical tubing. Too bad John Letcher's book is out of print, but some of the websites are very good at explaining the methods. John's book did pages of theory that i found every helpful, not only for the sheet to tiller self steering, but for sail handling and boat dynamics. Stu
unless you've set it up completely backwards, which is most unlikely, because you are a guy who knows what he's doing. The other thing is that if you have a multipart tackle for your mainsheet, make sure to use the line that's connected to the becket, the line that moves the least so when you let out the mainsheet the connection line doesn't move through the blocks. Congratulations, JohnP, I had that rig on my C25 from 1987 to 1992. It was great going upwind, and I never did get around to doing the jib sheet connection. The C25 mainsheet is so well placed for doing this. One of the MOST important things about this system is that it TEACHES you good sail trim. If your sails are trimmed well for the course you are on, this system works great with the right strength of bungee cord or surgical tubing. Too bad John Letcher's book is out of print, but some of the websites are very good at explaining the methods. John's book did pages of theory that i found every helpful, not only for the sheet to tiller self steering, but for sail handling and boat dynamics. Stu
Downwind Courses
John, What is the deepest point of sail you can hold by tieing into the mainsheet? Beam reach? Broad reach? I presume you will be experimenting with jibsheet for running courses after this success? Or am I wrong thinking that's for off-wind?
John, What is the deepest point of sail you can hold by tieing into the mainsheet? Beam reach? Broad reach? I presume you will be experimenting with jibsheet for running courses after this success? Or am I wrong thinking that's for off-wind?
short Response
The gist of the setup, as has been posted by the responders, is that when the wind is constant, the tiller stays in a static state, created by the pressure of the line from the tiller to the mainsheet, and the elastic (or surgical tubing). Keep in mind that the elastic pulls the tiller to leward, thus heading the boat into the wind. When the wind picks up, it puts more tension on the mainsheet, thus pulling on the line to the tiller, which pulls the tiller to windward, which moves the boat slightly to leward. As posted above, when you get your sails trimmed properly for the wind, the boat should keep a fairly constant heading. As I indicated, I only wrapped the tiller with the control line several times, then knotted it off, this allowed me to simply twist the line around tiller to get the proper tension. I want to play with it some more before I look into a more permanent means of attaching the line to the tiller. One other thing, that should be somewhat obvious, is that the position of the traveler is quite important. I was seeing 18-25 mph winds and had the traveler eased off entirely. when I tried to play with a little (when the wind dropped a tad), I found it much more difficult to control the heading. Speaking of headings, I found the boat did respond to wind direction changes quite well. All in all, I was very happy with my application of somebody elses idea. As posted above, this method goes waaaaaaay back in time.
The gist of the setup, as has been posted by the responders, is that when the wind is constant, the tiller stays in a static state, created by the pressure of the line from the tiller to the mainsheet, and the elastic (or surgical tubing). Keep in mind that the elastic pulls the tiller to leward, thus heading the boat into the wind. When the wind picks up, it puts more tension on the mainsheet, thus pulling on the line to the tiller, which pulls the tiller to windward, which moves the boat slightly to leward. As posted above, when you get your sails trimmed properly for the wind, the boat should keep a fairly constant heading. As I indicated, I only wrapped the tiller with the control line several times, then knotted it off, this allowed me to simply twist the line around tiller to get the proper tension. I want to play with it some more before I look into a more permanent means of attaching the line to the tiller. One other thing, that should be somewhat obvious, is that the position of the traveler is quite important. I was seeing 18-25 mph winds and had the traveler eased off entirely. when I tried to play with a little (when the wind dropped a tad), I found it much more difficult to control the heading. Speaking of headings, I found the boat did respond to wind direction changes quite well. All in all, I was very happy with my application of somebody elses idea. As posted above, this method goes waaaaaaay back in time.
It's in the Book
There's a good book on this subject. "Self-Steering for Sailing Craft" by John S. Letcher Jr., copy 1974, International Marine Publishing, Camden, Maine. He devotes an entire chapter to Sheet-to-Tiller Self-Steering. He also covers wind vanes and other related topics. I haven't tried it, but I've read that you can also do sheet to wheel steering attaching the control lines to the spokes of the wheel.
There's a good book on this subject. "Self-Steering for Sailing Craft" by John S. Letcher Jr., copy 1974, International Marine Publishing, Camden, Maine. He devotes an entire chapter to Sheet-to-Tiller Self-Steering. He also covers wind vanes and other related topics. I haven't tried it, but I've read that you can also do sheet to wheel steering attaching the control lines to the spokes of the wheel.
True True
I have yet to read this book, but it is on my list (among others) to read. Someday, I may try to setup the job sheets for sheet to tiller steering, but the current geometry of my rig does not easily lend itself to this. Some day maybe...
I have yet to read this book, but it is on my list (among others) to read. Someday, I may try to setup the job sheets for sheet to tiller steering, but the current geometry of my rig does not easily lend itself to this. Some day maybe...
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