Sheet to Tiller Self-Steering

[BreezyCricket]

I would appreciate if one of the experienced sailors on this forum could explain something for me.

If I understand a sheet to tiller self-steering system correctly, the direction of travel must first be set by trimming the sails accordingly, and then engaging the self-steering system, which holds the boat on the same course in relation to the wind direction, ie if the wind direction changes by 10 degrees, the boat's course over ground will also change 10 degrees in the same direction.

Assuming this is correct, why would not setting the direction of travel and then lashing the tiller not achieve the same result?

Many Thanks.

 

[Rudder Nonsense]

Check out this video, it might explain why sheet to tiller works. You see it adjust the tiller. Just lashing the tiller would not hold your course in most situations as there is nothing adjusting for any direction changes.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQNBlrg0VyI

 

[BreezyCricket]

Thank you for the reply and I had already watched this video because I would like to set up my boat the same way, but this got me to thinking about this subject.

Suppose we had 2 boats sailing in close proximity to each other, one set up like in the video, and the other with the tiller lashed, and everyone on these boats dropped dead.

I think the one with the self-steering may steer a slightly straighter course, but both would ultimately end up at the same destination because sails are in effect self-setting, eg, if I am sailing close-hauled and I ease out the sails, without touching the tiller the course will change, not as quickly as it would if I changed course with the tiller and then eased out the sails, but nevertheless the sails would eventually fill again and the boat would find it's own direction in relation to the wind.

 

[hewebb]

I sail solo with a tiller clutch on an inland lake. With just the main up it works better than when both sails are up. If you get a puff, which is very normal the boat will change direction and of course if the direction changes you will also get a heading change. I have made a some significant turns with the tiller locked down and letting the wind change the heading. It takes a little time. On the lake the wind has never been very constant in velocity or direction from one area of the lake to another. Love the tiller clutch because it does allow me some time to get things done on deck or below for short periods of time. If I needed more time away from the helm, I would install an auto pilot.

 

[rgranger]

... ie if the wind direction changes by 10 degrees, the boat's course over ground will also change 10 degrees in the same direction.

Assuming this is correct,...

I have tried STSS this past March on a passage across the Pamlico Sound. It worked very well but I don't think it does what you are describing above. As you know, our boats are designed to round up as the wind increases. So if you just lash your tiller and the wind velocity changes, your boat will either round up or fall off. The STSS corrects for that very well... at least the set up I had did. I'm not sure how it would do if the wind just changed direction. It might work for that but I don't have any first hand experience with that. The day I tried it we had winds out of the SE all day... but wind speed did change during the day so... I can say that STSS works for that.

I didn't do anything fancy. I used a piece of very light line and a half hitch to the jib sheet, brought it across the cabin top and ran it through a cheep block tied to the hand rail (I got the block at Tractor Supply -$2), then back to the cockpit to another cheep block tied to a cleat and then over to the tiller with another half hitch. I added some counter tension with a bungee cord tied to the other side of the tiller. Once I got the tension set, I let go and didn't touch the tiller again for almost 3 hours. HOWEVER since my boat is so small I did notice slight course changes as people moved around on the boat.... and if we moved back to our original position, the boat was back on course. For about $5 worth of pulleys and line, you could get something to play with and see if you like it. If you like it then you could invest in better gear.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

I've used sheet to tiller for up to two or three days at a stretch, sailing offshore. It is a true self steering system set correctly. Set your course, set the STT set up and let 'er rip. Just lashing the helm might work for a bit, but certainly not hour after hour.

A couple of points- Bungee cord is lousy for this. The thing to use is surgical tubing.

Here's a link to an excellent article on Sheet to Tiller set up-This is the set up I use-

http://www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml

And here's a link to a video of my 25 footer sailing in Mississippi Sound with Sheet to tiller controlling- you can see where the power is being picked off of the last lead of the mainsheet- Surgical tubing to the lee side

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NokZpCJIuBg

On the wind, we use the mainsheet- off the wind, you use the jib sheets

 

[BreezyCricket]

I don't think it is possible for any sailboat self-steering system to hold a boat on a compass heading. They can only hold it on a course in relation to the wind direction, and I think just lashing the tiller will ultimately achieve the same result.

Regardless, I do intend to try various options and will post a follow-up when I am done.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

The only self steering that will hold a compass course is electronic- either a tiller pilot or a wheel pilot. And with either one, if you get a large windshift, the boat will stall, or go off wind, depending. But you WILL have to readjust the sails.

Sheet to tiller, or a wind vane, will follow the wind, NOT a compass course. You pays your money and takes your options.

By the way, your 26S being a swing keeler (fin type keel), will probably not sail long on a course with the tiller lashed. It's a lightish boat and wave action will knock if around. Of course, sailing in a lake, and sailing open ocean, are two very different things. I use self steering for days sometimes, for instance when I crossed part of the Gulf of Mexico single hand last fall- 40 hours offshore. I never could have done it simply lashing the tiller.

 

[kenn]

[vane self-steering systems] can only hold [the boat] on a course in relation to the wind direction, and I think just lashing the tiller will ultimately achieve the same result.

Both electronic and wind-vane self-steering systems have a feedback input and a means of altering course. In the electronic system, GPS info (or an electronic compass) gives feedback on course and heading and deviation from the set course prompts a steering correction. Likewise, a wind-vane self steering system gets continuous input from the vane on the apparent wind direction; if that changes, the system steers to restore that.

Even the sheet-to-tiller system has limited feedback present; increased pull from the sheet pulls the tiller til the boat changes enough that the pull decreases again. And vice versa.

When the tiller's lashed... there's really no feedback. You might hold course for a minute or several, if everything's balanced, but ultimately, when the boat's off-course, the lashed tiller won't steer to correct it.

 

[Joe]

The error in your premise is that you are assuming the only factor affecting the boat's direction is the rudder. If you have the boat so perfectly balanced that you need no adjustment from the rudder....... then you don't need the rudder at all... just point the boat in the direction you want to sail and lash the tiller.

In fact, Josh Slocum, on his famous solo circumnavigation, sailed across the south eastern pacific for THREE weeks without making any tiller adjustment..... but his boat had a long deep keel, a low aspect sail plan and was designed to go straight.

Your boat, on the other hand, is as different from "spray" as can be. You may be able to get your rig balanced so you can sail without adjusting the tiller for short periods of time... but eventually other factors will cause the boat to change direction..... a passerby's wake, for example, or a gust of wind, or an wave from an odd direction.... every time the boat heels its dynamic changes..... so if the windspeed picks up just a little the heeling will increase the weather helm.... etc. etc. etc....

That said........ what you propose is, to me, the ultimate goal in sailing..... that is to balance your boat so well that it operates with little, if any, tiller adjustment and performs at its maximum capability.

So......... keep trying..... that's what it's all about.

 

[GorillaToast]

Check out this video, it might explain why sheet to tiller works. You see it adjust the tiller. Just lashing the tiller would not hold your course in most situations as there is nothing adjusting for any direction changes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQNBlrg0VyI

In the video, I can't see where the end of the steering rig is attached. Is it the bail or whatever the main sheet is attached to?

 

[BreezyCricket]

Actually I don't propose to balance my boat so well that it operates with little, if any, tiller adjustment.

After considering what would be the best way to set up some system of self-steering, I came to the conclusion that the end result of any sailboat self-steering system is really no better than just simply setting the sails for the desired course and then lashing the tiller.

The boat will keep sailing in the same direction, in relation to the wind, which, as far as I can determine, is exactly what a self-steering system does, eg if one were to assume that with a wind coming from due North and the compass point of sail was NE, if the wind direction changed to NW, regardless of whether a sailboat had a self-steering system or simply had the tiller lashed, I believe both would end up sailing due North.

 

[Benny17441]

The better the boat tracks the better it will work. In some boats it just not provides any worthwhile results.

 

[Stu Jackson]

....

After considering what would be the best way to set up some system of self-steering, I came to the conclusion that the end result of any sailboat self-steering system is really no better than just simply setting the sails for the desired course and then lashing the tiller.

The boat will keep sailing in the same direction, in relation to the wind, which, as far as I can determine, is exactly what a self-steering system does,

It's great that you seem to have an interest in this concept.

Your premise, however, is incorrect.

Let me suggest an example. On our 1981 Catalina 25, 1987 to 1998, I developed a great sheet to tiller system - tiller, boom end mainsheet. Following John Letcher's suggestions, Self Steering for Small Craft, I sought out some surgical tubing after failing with bungee cord. The pulpit stanchions held two clam cleats with open fairleads, and the two blocks one on either side, and the stern mooring cleats were to hand also.

The TRICK is to find the part of the tackle that is the main connector between the end of the boom and the becket block at the traveler, not one of the three other lines that run freer.

When heading upwind, tie the rolling hitch onto the hard part of the mainsheet, and through the block to the tiller with the surgical tubing opposite. All described in the links or Google. There are even YouTube videos of it working.

I enjoyed it so much I used to be able to tack the Cityfront on San Francisco Bay, port to starboard tack, north or south or east of Alcatraz efficiently.

Then I bought an autopilot.

Reason for the story is this: There is a great DIFFERENCE between locking a tiller and steering sheet-to-tiller because the wind can change. It often does. With the sheet-to-tiller, you would "Follow the Wind."

Nice name for a song, eh?

With a locked tiller your sails would either luff or get overpowered (assuming a close hauled start).

Think about it some more, and see if you can find John's book. It's a great read, with good sea stories and reasoning behind the concepts, and beyond simple end-boom mainsheet / tiller systems.

Much more difficult with cabintop mainsheet and wheels. I'm working' on it...

I'm also sure that if I Googled it, someone's already figured it out.

Actually I don't propose to balance my boat so well that it operates with little, if any, tiller adjustment.

Actually, you oughta. Balance the boat, and even with a fin keeled C25, it DOES work.

One of the great benefits from this three year exercise was to really learn sail trim. And an autopilot will teach you a lot of the same techniques.

Enjoy.

 

[Joe]

Actually I don't propose to balance my boat so well that it operates with little, if any, tiller adjustment.

After considering what would be the best way to set up some system of self-steering, I came to the conclusion that the end result of any sailboat self-steering system is really no better than just simply setting the sails for the desired course and then lashing the tiller.

The boat will keep sailing in the same direction, in relation to the wind, which, as far as I can determine, is exactly what a self-steering system does, eg if one were to assume that with a wind coming from due North and the compass point of sail was NE, if the wind direction changed to NW, regardless of whether a sailboat had a self-steering system or simply had the tiller lashed, I believe both would end up sailing due North.

Well...... at this point it's all theory and conjecture.... why don't you get out there and build a case for your premise with some actual experience?

I think you're a bit sophmoric.... bring us some proof.

 

[BreezyCricket]

To Joe:

You say that I assume the only factor affecting the boat's direction is the rudder, and this is simply not true.

I have made it abundantly clear that sail settings and wind direction is what affect's a sailboat's course over ground, and this is not all, as you say, 'theory and conjecture', it is fact.

Any opinion to the contrary certainly can only be classified as extremely sophomoric.

As to your suggestion that I build a case for my premise with some actual experience, I am sure that anyone with even very limited sailing experience will confirm that a boat sailing unattended with the tiller lashed, as when a lone sailor has fallen overboard, will continue sailing, and that is an absolute certainty.

Finally, if I am incorrect in claiming that a boat under these circumstances, either attended or unattended, will continue sailing a course in relation to the wind direction, what would you suggest will determine the course this boat would take?

 

[centerline]

I don't think it is possible for any sailboat self-steering system to hold a boat on a compass heading. They can only hold it on a course in relation to the wind direction, and I think just lashing the tiller will ultimately achieve the same result.

Regardless, I do intend to try various options and will post a follow-up when I am done.

WOW! I would be surprised if Joe even qualified your response to him with an answer. you actually asked for an experienced explanation in your opening line, and folks here are trying to help explain to you the why's and how's of it, and instead of listening to experience talk, your bound and determined that the laws of physics must be wrong as well as all experienced seamen and sailors, and that you can change the forces of nature.... WOW! but i suppose we all have to believe in something.
Im not sure if my following explanation is any clearer, but I have tried to make it so.... but you must read it with an open mind, with the belief that it may actually be the way things work...

it is not possible for a boat with a lashed tiller to do the same as a boat set up with a self steering system.... BUT, you are correct in thinking a self steering system wont hold a compass course. it follows the wind...

a lashed tiller will reasonably keep the boat on the compass heading that you set it for a few minutes.... but when the wind direction changes a few points, the boat still wants to go in the direction of the tiller, yet the sails may be luffing and the boat may be stalling (going into irons).... or it could have shifted the other way and now the boat is heeling more with a possibility of either rounding up or turning down.... the self steering mechanisim does not attempt to hold the boat on a compass course or heading, but it maintains a set angle of travel to the wind, not angle of travel to the earth. only a compass steered vessel or human can do that. and if you use a compass steered system, the wind could change and you may still be stalled... because in effect, you have lashed the tiller to straight ahead on whatever bearing you chose.
the self steering method will, in normal circumstances, prevent stalling and maintain headway by adjusting the boat and the rudder, and in turn, itself to maintain the angle of attack on the wind as set forth by you earlier..... and it makes no difference if the wind has shifted and it is steering the boat other than the heading you set it to hours ago, because whether your steering it, or its steering itself, you or it, can only go the direction the wind allows.... and it is maintaining the forward travel. whichever way that may be.

a lashed tiller is only a momentary solution to the problem, but if the conditions are right, it can hold the boat on a course for awhile, but dont expect it to adjust itself, the boat or the sails as needed by the changes in the wind conditions. there are only two different forces (wind and water) at work on the boat and one doesnt care what the other is doing..... (BTW, sail trim, rudder position and wave action are only "adjustments" that fall within the two forces, wind and water)

 

[Joe]

Okay breezy... let's refresh your original premise.... I included it here for easy reference.

I would appreciate if one of the experienced sailors on this forum could explain something for me.

If I understand a sheet to tiller self-steering system correctly, the direction of travel must first be set by trimming the sails accordingly, and then engaging the self-steering system, which holds the boat on the same course in relation to the wind direction, ie if the wind direction changes by 10 degrees, the boat's course over ground will also change 10 degrees in the same direction.

Assuming this is correct, why would not setting the direction of travel and then lashing the tiller not achieve the same result?

Many Thanks.

I pretty much think enough people here have tried to answer your quesion. But, you insist on arguing a point that you yourself haven't taken the time to put to practice. So........ go try it and see what you can accomplish.... then you can discuss it with some authority.

 

[LordNelson]

i have sailed my oday 20 across the seneca lake with the jib sheet running to the tiller and a bungee on the opposite side to the tiller. if the boat starts to head up into the wind, the bungee turns it away to fill the jib sail. once balanced, it would go across the lake with no adjustments. i do this with no added blocks or fittings.

i have only been able to do this on a tack. going down wind, it doesn't work.

 

[SenecaDaze]

I would appreciate if one of the experienced sailors on this forum could explain something for me.

If I understand a sheet to tiller self-steering system correctly, the direction of travel must first be set by trimming the sails accordingly, and then engaging the self-steering system, which holds the boat on the same course in relation to the wind direction, ie if the wind direction changes by 10 degrees, the boat's course over ground will also change 10 degrees in the same direction.

Assuming this is correct, why would not setting the direction of travel and then lashing the tiller not achieve the same result?

Many Thanks.

William Arthur Ward said: “The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.”


lets get real here,if you must have tiller lashed then just trim sails.