Shackle failure?

[David W]

I everyone, I'm just back from two weeks on the water in the Canadian Gulf Islands. Awesome sailing; last day saw 8 kts on the knotmeter several times on a beam reach.

Bad part was losing my brand new spinnaker halyard up the mast the first time I tried using it. Here's the scenario: asymmetrical chute in a dousing sock. I attached the Ronstan shackle to head, pulled it up a few feet to get some of the massive amount of sail off the deck for safety while running the lines.

All good so far. Lines run, genoa furled, prepared to hoist. I start hoisting in earnest, the head gets to the masthead and frigging sail drops the deck! Naturally the Captain asks if I closed the shackle. Well, with one of these shackles there is no hoist unless it's closed.

Or is there? Anyone every experience one of these shackles opening by accident?

 

[Don12364]

YES
30 years ago I had one on the spin halyard of my half tonner (30'). I needed to go to the masthead to work on the instruments. I hitched it to my bosun's chair and asked a pal to haul me up. He, being wiser said "Don't go up on that unless you have taped it closed."
We had no tape handy and I thought he was a buffoon anyway so I said as much.

He hauled and I climbed. Then I began work. After about ten minutes, and feeling very confident, I kicked myself out and round the mast to get to the other side.
Suddenly I was in free fall. Instantly I clutched on to the mast like a koala bear. It only slowed my descent as I watched the shrouds begin sawing through the tendons of my wrists. They were getting wider apart as I descended so were cutting deeper with every foot I slid. I had to decide whether to let go to save my wrists or to hang on even tighter in the hope that I could stop my fall before my wrists cut through and I would let go anyway.
I hung on - and eventually stopped falling.

Feeling certain that my buffoon pal had not cleated the line off properly on the winch I hollered "Nigel put that line on the winch properly this time." There was no answer until I saw him a good 100 yards away out of earshot. Then I looked down and the rope was still properly on the winch. Then I looked above my head and saw the snap shackle - open.
Still wearing the bosun's chair heavily laden with tools in a bucket hung on and with a very slim mast section I just simply climbed back to the top and, hanging with one hand, re clipped myself on.
Of course that was an impossible thing for me to do but that adrenalin is wonderful stuff!

Have I ever had one of these come open - you bet - but only once never again!
I think the little 3" long rope tassel I had put on the toggle might have had something to do with it.
Yes these are wonderful for sail halyards, sheets and guys; but people NO.

 

[Igetit]

I'm glad you posted this. Just bought a 270 and helped the dealer raise the mast when he delivered it. He showed me how these work, then proceeded to hang the entire operation on the running rigging, which made me extremely nervous the entire time the mast was less than vertical. These mast raising systems are great, except we're placing a WHOLE LOT of confidence in a little bit of hardware. These probably have their place, but I may end up swapping them out at least for tabernacle operations.

 

[Witzend]

Wow you are one lucky guy!! I have always been cautious using these snap shackles, never for halyards.

 

[NYSail]

when going "up" I always attach two halyards and both are the screw in shackles. I hate to fall.... Glad to hear you were ok.

 

[DougM]

Forget the line even has a shackle on it, use a bowline on both the main line and a safety line. It's never the fall that kills, It's the sudden stop at the end.
Shackles have a nasty way of opening when they are not supposed to.

 

[alexco38]

(1) The spiral ring on the pin elongated and open.
(2) The little tassel got tangled and pulled the pin open.
(3) The little tassel wound around the spiral pin and open.

Some shackle maker has spot welded ring to prevent opening. I just replace the spiral with SS wire locked together. No tassel.

Never use them for halyard.

 

[zeehag]

never use snap shackles for anything except your keychain. they FAIL. my son in his jensen wenk 24 had failure of his main halyard snap shackle in traffic in lost angeles port on approach. was a good thing we were there in a power boat to tow him into slip.

 

[Paul F]

Absolutely, if you are dangling on the end of the line, never use hardware always tie a knot.

 

[David W]

YES
30 years ago I had one on the spin halyard of my half tonner (30'). I needed to go to the masthead to work on the instruments. I hitched it to my bosun's chair and asked a pal to haul me up. He, being wiser said "Don't go up on that unless you have taped it closed."
We had no tape handy and I thought he was a buffoon anyway so I said as much.

/sniped/

Have I ever had one of these come open - you bet - but only once never again!
I think the little 3" long rope tassel I had put on the toggle might have had something to do with it.
Yes these are wonderful for sail halyards, sheets and guys; but people NO.

Glad to hear you survived your fall. Not everyone does.

I agree with your point on not relying on them to raise people. I see dozens of boats on the water with them on spinnaker halyards which makes me wonder how many times people have lost halyards in the same way I did. Interestingly I do have a tassel on the release pin, but this has never happened in the many times I used the halyard before.

Why not use a locking shackle like on a main halyard? Why the need for the easy release (but presumably higher risk of loss) for spinnaker halyards?

I must be missing something here.

 

[RichH]

The problem with snap shackles is that the pin must be fully engaged into the 'bail' (gate) of the shackle. With only a partial engagement the shackle is prone to open unexpectedly when under load. The standard solution for snap shackles is to SEE that the pin in full engaged.

Obviously snap shackles shouldnt ever be used to haul a human body up the mast, etc. because of the potential of an unexpected release; better to use bombproof standard mountain climbing knots such as doubled figure of eight, etc. .... climbers dont consider a bowline a 'safe' knot and its hardly ever used for climbing, and when used only to raise equipment, never live bodies, etc. The standard minimum 'climbers way' to tie-in from a harness (+ carabiner) to a line is with a doubled fig-8

If you do use a bowline because thats the only terminal knot you know, at least tie a 'jumper' prussik knot (aka: distel hitch) across it with lighter line.

Knots used in rescue service: http://www.animatedknots.com/indexrescue.php

 

[Gunni]

I use a snap shackle for my spin halyard, it works great. BUT since it sees infrequent use it does frequently refuse to lock - the pin hangs up on crud in the shackle and does not close positively, as Rich H describes. You need to double check it always.

No hoist for me using any rig hardware. Tie off a bowline and knot the tail. I climb a static line using ascenders and leg loops, with a halyard belay backup.

 

[SEMIJim]

Never use a snap shackle for a halyard? I've never seen anything but snap shackles on foresail and spinnaker halyards.

Never, ever use any kind of shackle for lifting people. Tie a knot.

Jim

 

[justsomeguy]

Never use a snap shackle for a halyard? I've never seen anything but snap shackles on foresail and spinnaker halyards.

Never, ever use any kind of shackle for lifting people. Tie a knot.

Jim

Seen 'em on tethers, too. It's been said; Inspect the action.

 

[SEMIJim]

Seen 'em on tethers, too. It's been said; Inspect the action.

Hmmm... If I wouldn't trust a snap shackle to haul me up the stick, I don't know as I'd trust one to keep me on the boat.

Jim

 

[xcyz]

Not sure falling from atop the stick is the same as falling off the boat. If having the choice, neither would be my 1st answer and then off the boat my 2nd.

 

[Ron20324]

Always a good idea, when life or property is at risk, is tape the shackle closed. When I use a bowline knot, I always end by putting the shackle around the standing part of the line as some insurance.

 

[David W]

I everyone, I'm just back from two weeks on the water in the Canadian Gulf Islands. Awesome sailing; last day saw 8 kts on the knotmeter several times on a beam reach.

Bad part was losing my brand new spinnaker halyard up the mast the first time I tried using it. Here's the scenario: asymmetrical chute in a dousing sock. I attached the Ronstan shackle to head, pulled it up a few feet to get some of the massive amount of sail off the deck for safety while running the lines.

All good so far. Lines run, genoa furled, prepared to hoist. I start hoisting in earnest, the head gets to the masthead and frigging sail drops the deck! Naturally the Captain asks if I closed the shackle. Well, with one of these shackles there is no hoist unless it's closed.

Or is there? Anyone every experience one of these shackles opening by accident?

Wanted to give an update on this.

I ran my mountain climber nephew up the stick in his mega-buck climbing harness. Verdict on why the shackle released? The tether was pulled into the sheave of the pulley and when the halyard got snug, it put enough tension on the tether to cause it to release.

So, no more tether for you! Replaced it with a smaller split ring. All good after several hoists!

 

[zeehag]

there are so many alternatives to something that is GOING to fail.....

 

[FourPoints]

When I go up the mast I screw the main halyard shackle into my harness, and then clip the jib halyard snap shackel in as a backup, I would never trust the jib or spin snap shackle as a primary.