Serpentine belt conversion - options?

Maine Sail · Oct 16, 2013

fastback said:
Hi Folks,
This summer my regulator and alt went on the fritz - I've rebuilt the Balmar alt and am looking at Marc Grasser's regulator. I would like to go with a serpentine belt on my Yanmar 3GM to get rid of the belt dust, and I like the robustness of a serpentine belt.

I nearly spit my morning coffee onto my computer screen when I saw the price that is asked for a pully and belt kit from Electromaax and Altmount. I will admit that I'm a tad frugal and aware that the word Marine has magical price inflating properties, but I really can't understand why these kits are priced so high?! A spare belt from Altmount is $36, leaving $200 per pulley?
A quick google reveals there is a plethora of kits for Domestic autos in the $150+/- range.

Yes, I understand economies of scale, but a CNC machine can pop these simple forms out in a jiffy.... I could make a pulley set on my highschool lathe if they'd let me back into class...

So my question is:
Has anyone done a conversion using off-the-shelf automotive parts?
Or has any one commissioned a set of pulleys from a tool and die maker/machinist?

These kits are expensive due exactly to economies of scale and the R&D that goes into them. I worked closely with Electromaax to develop the kit for the Volvo MD-2030. It was four trips back and forth to the factory for more custom machining and fitment. On my end alone it was ten plus hours including removing the factory crank pulley and sending it in. At last check they had sold 1 other kit for the MD-2030... They are still very well upside down on that kit... The kits from Electromaax are also hard anodized and fit like a glove. The installation is easy and well engineered and costs less than a double pulley option from companies like Westerbeke.

Alt Mount is owned by Balmar and Balmar and E-Maax share other serpentine kits though a partnership.

This is a low margin product otherwise Balmar would not have teamed with their fiercest competitor, and would have done it on their own.. The reality is they are very, very costly kits to develop and sell and they are slow movers, hence the pricing what it is.

You can always engineer your own but by the time you are done, and made it equivalent quality, including anodizing, you will be into it for similar or more money.

In June I had a pulley custom made locally for an engine driven refrigeration system and it cost me $231.00, before anodizing. The anodizing cost another $52.00. The customer paid more than my cost to cover the time & expenses I had invested in the actual finished product.

IMHO the E-Maax and Balmar/Alt Mount kits are worth their weight in gold....

Bob 04 H260 · Oct 17, 2013

I hear what you are saying. I bought the complete setup direct from Electromaax at what I thought was a fair price. I got the 140 amp alternator, serpentine belt kit, and external regulator for our 3GM Yanmar.

I have always owned a metal lathe and milling machine and have machined small parts since high school days and I have been retired now 9 years. I have the ability and equipment to make up these parts.

I could have saved a few dollars making up pulleys etc. myself but thought this was a better way to go for me.

Remember the pulleys just don't have to be the right diameter they have to have the correct offset so they are all in the same plane so the belt will be aligned. Setting it all up yourself may eat a few belts and require some playing around and shimming. It all depends how a person wants to spend their time. I know guys that love to do that sort of thing

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On your next trip to Niagara stop in at Electromaax and see what they are selling it might change your mind.

Bob

Maine Sail · Oct 17, 2013

The fact is none of these companies are making much on these serpentine kits. Alt-Mount was down for its last count, basically out of business, when Balmar stepped in and paid pennies on the dollar for the few Yanmar kits they had.

Electromaax could not make it doing just alternators and serpentine kits and had to branch into water-makers and wind-generators as well as off-grid stuff to keep the dream afloat. (of grid is what is keeping them going according to John) I really question how well they are actually doing. The sailboat market is SMALL. The number of customers who opt for an after market serpentine kit even SMALLER. Those who buy them LOVE them, those who don't get lots of belt dust and less charging capability..

Both are very short staffed (Balmar and Electromaax) and the products are priced accordingly for the market IMHO. I was once told by either Balmar or E-Maax that they assume 1.5 hours of phone/tech support for any DIY sale. This is very costly. Ample Power, I suspect, is just about out of business because they stopped supporting the product other than via an on-line forum. It used to be that every marine professional out there installed Ample Power now days I can't think of any.....

The operating margins on this stuff are not what folks think they are. I thought the same when I went to have my own line of high performance custom alternators manufactured. I thought I could beat E-Maax and Balmar in the price category.... I could not, especially when you added in the consulting time per sale as well as the after sale support. On average it is about 2.5 hours of "free" consulting just for the sale and support. That has to be built into the price of the product and takes away from actual billable time.. My alts are great but they are damn near as expensive as Balmar and E-Maax so I tend to sell Balmar and E-Maax instead and let them handle the support....

Bob S · Oct 17, 2013

Remember the pulleys just don't have to be the right diameter they have to have the correct offset so they are all in the same plane so the belt will be aligned. Setting it all up yourself may eat a few belts and require some playing around and shimming.

Bob hit the nail on the head! I machined a set for myself and it took a few tries to get the offset right. The Electromaxx and Alt Mount systems use a 10 groove "J" belt that is more common in the industrial world. Volumes are much less than the automotive series so the belts cost more. The advantage is they are available in many lengths. Finding a belt that will fit and sizing the OD's so that there is no interference isn't all that easy either. I made mine 6 groove with a "K" cross section that is more commonly used in the automotive industry. I lucked out and found an off the shelf (Honda) 40" serpentine belt that fit. It can be had at any auto supply chains for $14. All the information you need to make your own can be found in a machinist handbook. If I added up my time and material/anodizing costs I probably worked for $10.00/hr. don't forget you'll have to buy a 1/8" keyway broach & bushing for the alternator pulley. Not sure you'll find a machine shop that would be willing to work for that. Unless your capable of doing it yourself and like the idea of playing around on a lathe you'd be better of buying a set. That's just my opinion.

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=139274

Maine Sail · Oct 17, 2013

Bob S said:
Bob hit it on the nail on the head! I machined a set for myself and it took a few tries to get the offset right. The Electromaxx and Alt Mount systems use a 10 groove "J" belt that is more common in the industrial world. Volumes are much less than the automotive series so the belts cost more. The advantage is they are available in many lengths. Finding a belt that will fit and sizing the OD's so that there is no interference isn't all that easy either. I made mine 6 groove with a "K" cross section that is more commonly used in the automotive industry. I lucked out and found an off the shelf (Honda) 40" serpentine belt that fit. It can be had at any auto supply chains for $14. All the information you need to make your own can be found in a machinist handbook. If I added up my time and material/anodizing costs I probably worked for $10.00/hr. don't forget you'll have to buy a 1/8" keyway broach & bushing for the alternator pulley. Not sure you'll find a machine shop that would be willing to work for that. Unless your capable of doing it yourself and like the idea of playing around on a lathe you'd be better of buying a set. That's just my opinion.

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=139274

The million dollar question, would you work for $10.00 per hour........

Joe · Oct 17, 2013

Maine Sail said:
The million dollar question, would you work for $10.00 per hour........

Well, for many of us who don't have the resources others have, we don't have the choice when it comes to fixing our boats.

Serpentine belt conversion - options?

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