Self tending Yankee using the Cutter Track.

[Pilotocopilot]

Hi all, has anyone used the cutter track in conjunction with the Yankee/Jib in a self tending arrangement. We're contemplating some serious cruising this winter and I would like to simplify the sail handling arrangement even if it compromises the speed.
My thoughts are to utilize the current jib furler but remove the cutter rig, leaving the cutter track to use with the jib in a self tending manner. Reason being it would simplify life for my wife who's a nervous sailor.
Anyways any thoughts would be appreciated as always.

 

[Bill1565]

Hi all, has anyone used the cutter track in conjunction with the Yankee/Jib in a self tending arrangement. We're contemplating some serious cruising this winter and I would like to simplify the sail handling arrangement even if it compromises the speed.
My thoughts are to utilize the current jib furler but remove the cutter rig, leaving the cutter track to use with the jib in a self tending manner. Reason being it would simplify life for my wife who's a nervous sailor.
Anyways any thoughts would be appreciated as always.

Never considered it. We removed the staysail rig entirely, but added a155 genoa to move the boat in light to moderate winds. My feeling about reducing the Yankee to staysail size is forget it. Just motor.

 

[Johnb]

In San Francisco Bay where the winds go from light in the Riviera (North Bay, West side) to fierce (in the slot) I have found that the easy way is to set out with a reef in the main and both jibs up. When I need to I just furl the Yankee, right from the cockpit and real easy, and sail on main and staysail. If the wind drops or we get in a wind shadow out comes the Yankee again, real easy.

On reefed main and staysail you have a complete self tending easy to handle pussycat. In really strong winds the Yankee actually is over powering and sometimes "pumps" and shakes the whole boat around, not the recipe for making a nervous person happy.

This assumes a roller furling Yankee but one way or another I would not dispense with the staysail.

 

[Pilotocopilot]

I can appreciate the versatility the current rig offers and the Yankee is on a furler so yes it is manageable. But the boat as a cutter already has the mast stepped further back than a sloop, so it's ideally set up to be converted to a self tending jib. What I would keep is the option of being able to unclip from a self tending configuration and reclip to standard jib sheets to reach and run with.Part of the problem is tacking the Yankee through the slot, requiring me to partially furl the Yankee to tack it through so if it's self tending there's none of that. There's been a lot of current production designs that have gone to this system and I'm not that big of a purist that I wouldn't try it to see how effective it would be on this boat. I've single handed this boat on 4 Gulf Stream crossings and through the Bahamas so the issue isn't me but it sure would be nice to simplify the process especially if it works without much loss of performance and makes the Admiral happy.

 

[Bill1565]

I can appreciate the versatility the current rig offers and the Yankee is on a furler so yes it is manageable. But the boat as a cutter already has the mast stepped further back than a sloop, so it's ideally set up to be converted to a self tending jib. What I would keep is the option of being able to unclip from a self tending configuration and reclip to standard jib sheets to reach and run with.Part of the problem is tacking the Yankee through the slot, requiring me to partially furl the Yankee to tack it through so if it's self tending there's none of that. There's been a lot of current production designs that have gone to this system and I'm not that big of a purist that I wouldn't try it to see how effective it would be on this boat. I've single handed this boat on 4 Gulf Stream crossings and through the Bahamas so the issue isn't me but it sure would be nice to simplify the process especially if it works without much loss of performance and makes the Admiral happy.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[Ed Schenck]

So your plan would be to move the mid-stay and attach a small yankee to the staysail boom? Hard for me to understand how you could trim the yankee in that configuration. Normally it is set outside the lifelines and the clew is pulled back and down. A sail small enough to do that on the staysail boom would be almost useless. Why not just sail with the staysail and main? I do it all the time when alone and lazy. <== see picture.

 

[Pilotocopilot]

No the Yankee would need cutting and modification at the clew attachment. Or after talking with a sailmaker if a new purpose built jib needs to be created than I would consider having one made saving the Yankee should I decide to re-use it. From what I've read the self tacking jibs are usually around 85% of the forward triangle in size. Ed what kind of performance do you get out of that configuration in 10-15kts of wind with the Staysail and Main?

 

[Pilotocopilot]

Here's the best example I can give of what I'm contemplating,the arrangement of the jib on the Hanse 415.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3WLP9ZoQYY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Ed Schenck]

Familiar with the Hanse setup as my marina is a dealer. It is not so much the sail to boom attachment although that is major unless you properly size the sail(yankee). I think the issue is control of the boom. First you would need a traveler that is adjustable from the cockpit. But that traveler is so short could you warrant the expense for so little gain? Then you need a vang or some way to shape the sail when it is outside the track.

With a decent main and an old staysail the old lady does about 5.5 knots in 11 or 12 knots of wind. At 45 degrees with the yankee she would easily do 6.5.

 

[Pilotocopilot]

No boom Ed just a retrofit similar to the Hanse utilizing the existing track. Although if you installed a suitable pedestal from Rig Rite behind the chain locker approximately where the staysail chainplate is could you utilize the existing boom for that duty? Hmmm il have to think about that.

 

[sandpiper10471]

Not sure that the staysail track and deck structure are designed to take the loads of a masthead blade headsail. My 37C goes upwind in a blow just fine with the main and staysail, self tacking being a bonus.

 

[Pilotocopilot]

Although it's a valid question I do believe that it would have been sized and secured for higher loads than the staysail could generate. Some of the aftermarket arrangements I've seen don't seem as robust as the factory installation of the track. Nonetheless it's something now that you've brought it up worth reviewing.

 

[Ed Schenck]

You do realize that the forward track is not bolted but only screwed into the core? Years ago I replaced the track base with PlasTeak and was surprised it was so easily removed. Compare that to the main traveler which is bolted every four inches.

 

[Pilotocopilot]

Certainly something that will be inspected and modified as needed if I decide to go ahead with the change. The raised portion I'm assuming has a wooden block under the fiberglass that the track is screwed into if I'm following what your saying.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Could be that the base is over something more substantial than the plywood core. Regardless it is going to require some through bolting I feel.

 

[Pilotocopilot]

Ed I'm trying to think were that track would be within the interior layout and I'm thinking it's either in front of the bulkhead in the v-berth which it would not present a problem as far as a backing plate and through bolting or behind the bulkhead in the head compartment making it more of an issue.

Just checked some of my pics and it's definitely in the head just behind the dorades. Well at least it's not in the shower stall.

 

[Ed Schenck]

A lot of guys are adverse to having hardware show on the headliner. But that never bothered me. My deck organizers are bolted through with large fender washers and lock nuts. I don't even notice them in the salon overhead.

 

[Pilotocopilot]

It doesn't bother me in the least, I've modified our northern boat with additional winches and clutches and the backing plates don't look out of place in the cabin. Do you recall how many screws were holding the track.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Trying to picture that traveler. Every hole on top has a screw under. If same track as aft then every four inches. And I think it is the same, just shorter.

 

[Pilotocopilot]

Yes that's what I recall that size was identical to the mainsheet track, so changing the screws over to through bolts should be straight forward so long as it doesn't sit too close to the bulkhead.