Self tending Jib? should I?

Cayennita · Jan 18, 2012

A proper self tending jib should be mounted on a curved track track. Harken can supply everything you need. Some boats w/o roller furling will have a jib made with a curved batten going from the clew to the luff. This allows for a good shape when easing sheets and going on a reach or run.
With a roller furling system you might need a club foot. Look at some of Gary Hoyt's designs. Your boat is from the era of 1/4 ton boats and normally sailed with 150% genoas. One way to keep the clew out is to use barber haul lines.Mount the blocks as far outboard as possible following the track curvature. Will aslo help to set the clew anywhere you want along the track.

RichH · Jan 18, 2012

There are many 'sail shape and trim problems' when using a 'track, etc.' to control a 'self tending jib'.
The pen-ultimate best way to do this is with a Hoyt-Boom ... or DIY equivalent: http://www.forespar.com/products/sail-hoyt-jib-boom-system.shtml

Without some way to keep the clew of the sail from rising, especially when the jib sheets are released/eased as when reaching or running down wind, the sail shape will be 'disastrous' and subject to sudden 'power-ups' and sail flogging in 'gusty, etc.' conditions and without such a means to restrain this the sail will be subject to flog along the leech, sometimes severely weakening or breaking the stitching, any time the sail's clew is 'outboard'.
A Hoyt-boom (or vang-restrained 'clubfoot') takes all the 'extra-confusion/trimming' out of a 'tracked self tending jib' and with such a 'boom' system like this all you have to do is ease or pull-in the jib sheet .... and the trim and 'shape' will be quite 'perfect'. Especially the Hoyt-boom, that is especially engineered so that the 'pull down' on the clew remains constant and no matter far the boom is angled from the boats centerline, the sail shape remains constant ... it's the 'ultimate' in 'hands off self-tacking jib control'. When properly set up when 'beating into the wind' ... you dont have to change any mainsheet or jibsheet settings --- just steer the boat!!!!!!!!
Only problem with self tacking jibs is that the foot (length of the sail along the 'bottom') must be short enough so that the boom can freely swing across in front of the mast and rigging .... so that keeps you to a 'small sized' jib.

A clever DIYer can easily make a Hoyt-boom equivalent for a small boat.

Cherie320 · Jan 18, 2012

Yes you should. Maybe...........

A self tending jib is a great solution for short handed sailing and close quarter work. It's not so good for light air, because you must reduce the sail area down to less than 100%, usually about 85-90%. You can use a roller furing sail. Ours works well.

I can't say enough good about the Hoyt Jib boom. If that system will fit on your boat and you can deal with a boom on the bow, it is the right solution. It would not fit our boat, because we have an anchor locker in the area where the base is installed.

Next best is a curved track on a riser system. The hardware mfgs will bend the track for you, but you will need to design your own riser system if a mainsheet traveler riser and wedges is not to your liking. The ideal configuration is a track that runs all the way to the toe rail on each side so the maximum sheeting angle can be achieved. However, most stop at or near the side of the cabin top to allow passage to the bow without stepping over the track.

The track can be bolted to the deck flat without a riser. The control is not as good but you will see some boats with that approach, because it is a simpler install and does not obstruct access to the bow. The bend orientation is different(ends forward as opposed to ends up for the riser type). There is a diagram that shows this configuration on the Harken site.

Good Luck

Ed Schenck · Jan 18, 2012

Or you could buy an H37C and sail with the staysail. It is on a boom and self tending. See left.

Seriously though it would be a poor option for a masthead rig where your power comes from the foresail. Most Hanse sloops are self tending but their power is in the main. Island Packets use the Hoyt boom but it is for the staysail, not the foresail.

Joe · Jan 18, 2012

I'd invest in an auto pilot before I started messing with self tending jib.

Steve Dion · Jan 18, 2012

Please note that this sailor is on a 22' vessel. A Harken or Hoyt setup is going to cost much more than the boat is probably worth.

We sailed with a self tending jib for many years and it was wonderful. It can be done for a minimal cost or the sky is the limit.

Benny17441 · Jan 18, 2012

Have seen some just made out of lines and blocks; may not win any races but sure beats tacking back and forth in a narrow channel.

Cherie320 · Jan 18, 2012

Steve Dion said:
Please note that this sailor is on a 22' vessel. A Harken or Hoyt setup is going to cost much more than the boat is probably worth.

We sailed with a self tending jib for many years and it was wonderful. It can be done for a minimal cost or the sky is the limit.

The Hoyt 250 system is about $1200.

An inexpensive solution requires, a closet rod, a u-bolt, an eye bolt, a block of wood, some bedding compound, two pad eyes, a few fair leads, some line, and a couple of blocks. With a weekend of installation time, that gets you a jib boom that will do the job on a small boat.

Don12364 · Jan 19, 2012

Self Tacking Jib?

We prefer to call these Self Tacking Jibs because they are anything but self tending.
The sail tacks automatically when the boat tacks but it will still need trimming and attention at most times other than when hard on the wind.

RichH · Jan 19, 2012

Benny17441 said:
Have seen some just made out of lines and blocks; may not win any races but sure beats tacking back and forth in a narrow channel.

Think carefully about this.
Unless there is a positive means to hold the jib clew 'down', and remembering, that especially for 'small' jibs as needed for 'self tacking', one really has to continually move the jibs fairleads fore and aft as the jib sheet goes 'in and out' so that proper sail shape is maintained (the jib doesnt become radically 'overtwisted' when the clew goes forward). Without such a downwards clew control the end result will ALWAYS be that the foot of the sail will be radically overtrimmed (too close to the boats centerline, stalling) and the head of the sail will be flogging/luffing - stalling, and only a small 'zone' of the middle panels 'drawing' ... anytime the sheet is eased. That means that only ~10-15% of jib surface area is 'working', at best. Such a cross-controlled and cross-shaped jib will be extremely vulnerable to sudden 'power-ups' ... and is probably the chief reason that you see 'small' boats upside down in 'gnarly' conditions!
The end result is that ANYTIME you ease the sheet and dont correspondingly adjust the fairleads, the sail shape will become deplorable, especially with a 'small' jib. Only a Hoyt-boom or a clubfoot restrained by a vang (or an adjustable 'clew-iron') will prevent this. OR (as most cruisers usually dont do) - one should be constantly readjusting the jib fairleads!

For a small boat with a small (relative to the main) jib and with no means to restrain the jib clew from rising when the sheets are eased.... ultimately it would be vastly better (for hands-off tacking) to simply radically rake the mast forward and sail the boat with JUST the mainsail flying and NO jib. This isnt a racing consideration, but more of a helm-balance or safety consideration.
Think about tacking back and forth in a narrow channel in such a boat with extreme 'weather helm' (dragging the rudder) and violently 'rolling' back and forth as the jib constantly changes its shape and with the constantly attaching and then spilling the wind.

There is much much more to jib handling (and helm balance) than having a somewhat triangular piece of cloth in somewhere front of the mast.

Stu Jackson · Jan 19, 2012

joes new addiction said:
Hmmm, intresting.........
Being a newbie is exciting! Everyday I see new stuff that catches my imagation! My charge cards are screaming worse then when I buy a new bike!

Joe, let's approach this a bit differently, based on what you just said.

1. Yes, it can be done. Whether you can or want to buy it, or whether you make it is your choice.

2. The largest thing you might want to consider is whether you NEED one or not. For instance, Steve Dion sails in the California Delta, which has many windy (wind-y) and windy ("wine"-de) channels with great afternoon winds during the summer. Many sailors up in the Delta have successfully used self tacking jib setups. In fact a C34 recently moved into our marina with one, having come from Stockton, way up in the Delta. Before they moved to another marina they removed the self tacking gear? Why? 'Cuz they didn't need it on San Francisco Bay or the ocean. You're on a big lake. So, simply ask yourself if you need one or just want one, or just found something new-to-you about sailing and are investigating the possibilities.

Good luck.

Ed Schenck · Jan 20, 2012

I sail a 20-foot Highlander on a narrow lake with fickle winds. It is a fractional rig, big main(no backstay) and small jib. I tack constantly which requires crossing to the windward side. I have cam cleats mounted on the back of the centerboard trunk. Not a problem to release as I cross then trim in the new leward sheet. Much better I think than an untrimmed jib. I don't think you can engineer a boom and track that won't be more work than I described. Maybe on a larger boat.