Self Tailing Winches

[Dalliance]

My jib sheet winches are non-self tailing two speed Barient 22; original to the boat. They are in good condition, but I would like to change to self tailing - possibly with a conversion kit. I'ld like to avoid the expense of new winches. I came across Winchmate.com which makes self tailing conversion kits for Barient, but they only make them for Barient 27 thru 32 models, not the 22. Does anyone know of a company that makes self tailing conversion kits for the Barient 22?

Secondly, I spotted a pair of self tailing two speed Barient 23 winches on ebay- same size as the 22's - asking about $650 for the pair. They looked a bit beat up though the seller described it as cosmetic damage only. Does that sound like a good value? Are there particular issues or pitfalls to be aware of with used or older self tailing winches?

Of course, if I replace the winches, I don't have to stay with the same company, especially one that's no longer made. But if the parts are compatible, picking up a pair of Barient 23's might make sense. Does anyone know if the mechanism and gear ratios of the 23's match the 22's? Is it possible the drum and stripper arm are the only difference?

 

[higgs]

According to the harken site, you would spend around $1500 on this site to get the new self tailors they recommend for your boat - #40s. Figure on ebay, that $650 price may go up a bit.

 

[BobM]

Huge winch sale at Defender last time I checked I could by #40ST Lewmar's for $800 each. Just checked again and it is still $799. I am getting very tempted. I have old non tailing 43's on my boat. However, if I tack worth a damn I really just reel in the sheet and damn the tailing. I only have to use the winches for fine adjustments. Contact Phil first to see if he can match it though.

 

[Warren Milberg]

First of all, I would say that self-tailing winches are wonderful! As a mostly solo sailor, self-tailing winches really make the task of sail trim a breeze. Secondly, multi-speed ST winches are a somewhat complicated piece of expensive machinery. While I have purchased a number of sailing items from eBay, I have not and probably would not, buy used winches there unless the seller gave me the option to return them. I do, however, think that there are some bargains to be had in buying used winches, but I would buy them at local consignment shops where I could make sure everything is in working order first.

 

[Ted]

The Barient non ST #22 and #23ST winches are mechanically different. Some of the parts may be interchangeable but you would have to know which models you have. Barient made three different models of the non ST #22"s and two models of the #23ST that I'm aware of. If you were able to get a pair of #23ST for $650 you would have gotten an excellent deal. Barient made high quality, very robust hardware which is why they are still in high demand in the used winch market. Winches made 30 years ago are still in service. Winches of this size have been selling for between $750-$950 on Ebay recently. I sold a pair of smaller one speed Barient #17ST last summer which went for $950. Admittedly, much more than I expected to get for them. I've been keeping my eye specifically on the Barient #23ST because I have a pair that I may put up for auction on ebay in the Spring. Generally, the chrome drum models have been fetching higher numbers than the aluminum ones. The pawl pockets of the aluminum drums have a tendency to wear out sooner then the pockets of the chromed bronze drums. I guess that's why the chrome models have been fetching higher numbers. Pawl pockets can be repaired if they are worn excessively.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Have you considered "winchers?" A search would turn up tons of discussion about them. Some love 'em, some hate 'em. I happened to admire mine on our old C25 very much. The $40 price si right, too. What do you have to lose?

 

[bffatcat]

winches

Ive got a used pair of barlow #23 2 speed non self tailing that I picked up in a used marine supply about 7 years ago I woud say they are about 30 years old now. I paid $500 for the pair. Im pretty sure they are the same as barients the parts seem to be interchangable and replacements are available from arco in Austrailia. They are top quality solid winhes. About buying them site unseen off the net ? You pay your money and take your chances About
winchers/ they do work but not like self tailing winches. On a scale of 1-10 I rate them a 5
my opinion

 

[Joseph Shirley]

$650 for a pair of Barient Self Tailers is a great bargain. Barient was a quality product. I would have no qualms about buying them if you are satisfied with the size and the purchase they provide. There is one thing to look for in buying a used winch. To insure that they haven't been overloaded and ruined. You do this by inspecting the pawl pockets. If a winch was overloaded, the pawl pockets were stressed and the pawl fits so sloppily, that there may be cracks in the pawl pockets, or the pawls are no longer held captive, can come out, and jam the winch. This is an easy inspection to make, but you do have to dissemble the winch to check.

Good Luck

Joe S

 

[Dave Groshong]

Harken 40ST's (aluminum) are on sale here through the 9th, $759/ea.

http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.htm?group=1515

 

[Joe]

I am looking at the numbers for the conversion kits at winchmate.com and it doesn't seem they are cost effective for smaller winches. If they made a kit for your Barient 22 it would still cost at least $500+ for each winch. Dave Groshong is selling 2 speed harkens by the pair for a very competitive price on this site. If you're ready to spend $1000 now to convert existing winches....... I'd cough up another $500 and get brand new shiny ones that will last a life time.

 

[Ron20324]

My B32 uses Lewmar 30's. 3/8 line. Maybe you should explore other makes?

 

[Dalliance]

Thanks everyone. You've provided alot of helpfull information and ideas.

Conversion kits, even if I found one to fit my winches, don't look promising or cost effective, and I passed today on the ebay offer I had seen. No return option - and I became more concerned about their condition when I took a second look, especially in light of some of your comments. Hope they work out for whoever bought them. Bidding (only 2 bids) closed today at $610 plus shipping. Maybe a great deal, maybe not...

At this point I am in the market for a pair of used or discounted new self tailers, not limited to Barient, and I have a much better idea of what to check for when I inspect them thanks to your comments, particularly about the pawl sockets. I am not inclined to buy off ebay without a clear return policy. I did consider Winchers, and have not ruled them out for my main halyard winch, but Practical Sailor does not recommend them for sheet winches and they don't create a true self tailer.

Thanks again everyone, and Ted, if you decide to sell those ST 23's in the spring, give me a heads-up. I not in a hurry, so I might still be looking.

 

[Grateful Dad]

I just picked up a pair of Barient 23ST's in working condition at a local marina for $300. They were on a boat that had been abandoned and the owner of the marina was happy to get any salvage money he could out of it. I had to remove them myself but since the boat is going to be crushed anyway, a Sawzall did the trick in 10 minutes.

Now I want to clean and lubricate them over the Winter before installing them in the Spring. Does anyone have a recommendation on lubricant and on what to look for as possible wear items?

BTW - If anyone else is doing the same, here is a good resource: http://www.rodlawson.com/oceans/articlewinch.html

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