Seawater Leak

[duncanhoo]

Owner of 2003 B44. Got it second hand and have had numerous water in the bilge issues. Got the freshwater ones under control but am complete baffled by a seawater one showing up in bilge forward of companionway.

Amount is substantial (20 gallons from a two hour sail with 20 degree heal) so really trying to figure it out. No ingress when running in smooth calm water.

hauled and checked keel bolt tightness.
baby powdered all above waterline through hulls...nothing.
Checked forward anchor locker - nope

My latest theory is the rubber "gasket" that connects the deck to hull in the stern. Looks like it might have some gaps where caulk has begun to fail. So perhaps water comes in there; however, i cannot figure out how that would enter the hull since it appears the deck and hull are glassed together at that joint from underneath behind the after cabins.

Anyone had similar issues with any other models or years. I imagine all of these are constructed basicly the same way.

 

[Ted]

That's a lot of water. Does it only happen when you are sailing? Do you get any water entering the bilge while you're motoring? Have you checked the stuffing box? Does your prop spin while sailing or do you lock it in place?

Other places to look: Water could be coming from the head while heeled. Check your rudder post and instrument thru hull transducers.

 

[duncanhoo]

Tell me about it. of course i have to hand pump it out since it is never enough to use bilge pump. Very very very annoying.

i believe it only happens when heeled. ran it this am under power calm sees and got no water. its a saildrive.

Prop spins when sailing (but that is what volvo manual says).

That's a lot of water. Does it only happen when you are sailing? Do you get any water entering the bilge while you're motoring? Have you checked the stuffing box? Does your prop spin while sailing or do you lock it in place?

Other places to look: Water could be coming from the head while heeled. Check your rudder post and instrument thru hull transducers.

 

[njsail]

you should also check for possible reverse siphon. If a vented loop became clogged or something else happened. Look at the bilge pumps and maybe temporarily close the seacocks while sailing heeled. Since you have a significant water ingress issue monitor carefully.

A few potential sources:
- bilge
- head
- thru hulls
- transducers
- rudder post
- hull joint on the sugar scoop
- all thru hulls just above the water line (since it's only when heeled these I would be most suspect of). e.g. bathroom, kitchen sink, Air conditioning, etc.

Good luck - keep us posted.

 

[duncanhoo]

thanks - going out in an hour to start looking. I suspect hull joint on sugar scoop but if that were the case wouldnt i see water coming in behind the aft staterooms?

Anyhow off to see if i can finally slay this dragon.

 

[duncanhoo]

sorry - what is "reverse siphon"

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I think he means...

sorry - what is "reverse siphon"

I think he's referring to an effect known as "ram water"--water pushed (rammed) up a line through an open thru-hull, caused by the pressure of the hull against the water when the boat is underway. It doesn't happen in all conditions, and location of the thru-hull also determines whether it happens.

A vented loop, even properly functioning, cannot prevent it...because vented loops allow air into a line to break siphon, and it's only when liquid is PULLED through a line that a siphon can start...a vented loop has no effect whatever on liquid being PUSHED through a line. That's why the vented loop in the head intake belongs between the pump and the bowl--because the pump PULLS water TO the pump...PUSHES it from the pump to the bowl...but whether a vented loop is in the right place or not, ram water has caused many a toilet bowl to overflow and sinks to turn into fountains while underway if the seacock is left open and the toilet left in the "wet" mode. Bilge pump thru-hull can be another source if the thru-hull is too close to the waterline or if the thru-hull is submerged when the boat is heeled.

So while njsail doesn't quite understand how vented loops are supposed to work, his point is a good one...and closing ALL seacocks while underway (which, except for the engine, you should do anyway) is the first step is finding the source of the water.

 

[duncanhoo]

my latest theory is that the aft ac condensation outlet (plumbed into the aft head sink through hull, which is at the water line) was doing this. Tested it today by closing off the through hull and sailing...sadly it was a gutless 5-8 knots so only got minimal heel (less than 10 degrees). Nevertheless no water in the bilge.

Dont think this was a good "test" but at least the bilge is dry.

 

[njsail]

Here's a few articles to help give you ideas. They also describe vented loops, siphons, reverse siphons, etc.

Vented loop / siphon article
http://www.myboatsgear.com/featured_product/vented loops.asp

How to keep your boat from sinking (a few ideas to think about)
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/sinking.htm

Bilge plumbing / riser loop
http://marinesurvey.com/yacht/bilge_pumps_p3.htm

Good old boat article
http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/articles/Marine_exhaust.php

As always...keep us posted.

 

[duncanhoo]

thanks for these links. going on a mini cruise this weekend and will play with it more.

 

[duncanhoo]

Update: (knocking on nearest teak but). think i figured out my issue as the AC units condensation outlets letting water rush and overpowering the small twelve volt pumps. first time i have kept bilge dry since we got the boat in 2005. thanks for your help in the forums.

 

[njsail]

congratulations.... a dry bilge is a wonderful thing.

 

[duncanhoo]

never knew how happy it would make me...changed my life...

 

[Bing]

Haven't been on this site for a while and just noticed your post. When our Bavaria 31 was brand new, it had a leak where the hull and deck meet at the stern, under the rubber. We noticed water in the bilge and traced it back to the stern area and had the dealer fix it. He said they had similar problems on other Bavarias. They tried fixing it from the inside, but of course, they just made a dam and the water found another way around it. So we had it hauled out and the rubber removed, which revealed a very small gap where the join hadn't taken properly. Had it filled, the rubber put back on, and no more water. I might say, it took the dealer 7 months and a lot of arguments and us taking the initiative of having it hauled out, for the problem to be fixed.