sea water filling my head

[Skipro]

We recently converted the forward head in our Beneteau 400 from standard Jabsco to electric. It has begun filling up with fresh sea water between uses? why has this begun happening. I don't want to have to open and close the seacock each time we use the head.
thanks.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

We recently converted the forward head in our Beneteau 400 from standard Jabsco to electric. It has begun filling up with fresh sea water between uses? why has this begun happening. I don't want to have to open and close the seacock each time we use the head.thanks.

You need to install a vented loop in the intake line. Whoever installed your toilet for you apparently missed that in the installation instructions.

You didn't say which make/model electric toilet...if it's one that uses a hose to connect the base to the back of the bowl, it needs to go between the pump and the bowl...so you'll need to replace that hose with a enough hose to put the loop at least 6-8" above waterline AT ANY ANGLE OF HEEL--which is 2-3 feet above the bowl on most sailboats.

If it's a model that doesn't have that connecting line from the pump to the bowl, you'll have to put the loop in the intake line between the thru-hull and pump...and THAT's gonna require adding a solenoid air valve wired to the flush button that closes the air valve when the toilet is flushed, opens it again to break the siphon started by priming the pump. You can see how that works here: 37068-2000 Vented Loop Solenoid Valve It says it's for Jabsco's 37010 series toilet, but it works with any electric sea water toilet that needs a vented loop in the intake.

 

[Skipro]

You need to install a vented loop in the intake line. Whoever installed your toilet for you apparently missed that in the installation instructions.

You didn't say which make/model electric toilet...if it's one that uses a hose to connect the base to the back of the bowl, it needs to go between the pump and the bowl...so you'll need to replace that hose with a enough hose to put the loop at least 6-8" above waterline AT ANY ANGLE OF HEEL--which is 2-3 feet above the bowl on most sailboats.

If it's a model that doesn't have that connecting line from the pump to the bowl, you'll have to put the loop in the intake line between the thru-hull and pump...and THAT's gonna require adding a solenoid air valve wired to the flush button that closes the air valve when the toilet is flushed, opens it again to break the siphon started by priming the pump. You can see how that works here: 37068-2000 Vented Loop Solenoid Valve It says it's for Jabsco's 37010 series toilet, but it works with any electric sea water toilet that needs a vented loop in the intake.

Thanks for your response. The previous pump was a "standard Jabsco" head. I purchased a conversion kit that replaced the manual pump with an electric macerating pump. It used the existing plumbing. The line now goes from the pump to the top of the bowl. Why would it start siphoning now after not siphoning after a month of use?

 

[markwbird]

Maybe the vent in the vented loop is clogged thus making it siphon.

 

[JamesG161]

If the problem is a siphon, then you can test this by closing the seacock.

Most lines will self drain, all be it, slowly. I would guess overnight for sure.

Then open the seacock....

If no more flow, then it is a plugged/nonfunctional siphon breaker.

If flow starts again, then you don't have a high point loop.

Jim....

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Thanks for your response. The previous pump was a "standard Jabsco" head. I purchased a conversion kit that replaced the manual pump with an electric macerating pump. It used the existing plumbing. The line now goes from the pump to the top of the bowl. Why would it start siphoning now after not siphoning after a month of use?

If the toilet is below the waterline as it is on most boats, it's not siphoning...water outside the boat is seeking--and finding!--it's own level INside the boat. There are a couple of possible explanations for why it waited a month to start doing this: 1. Till now everyone who's been aboard has been careful to leave the wet/dry (they call it "flush/discharge") knob in the "discharge" position, but it's now being left in the "flush" position. 2. The "flush/discharge" assembly has failed...turning the knob no longer blocking the flow of flush water to the bowl.

Both possibilities only illustrate why a vented loop in the intake is so important when a toilet is below, or even at, the waterline...and ALWAYS on a sailboat, because heeling changes the waterline...and because a)people are fallible...and b)whatever CAN fail, will.

I just pulled up the installation instructions for that toilet...and I'm amazed that they call for a vented loop in the DISCHARGE if the toilet is at or below waterline, but there's no mention of the need for a vented loop in the intake line--in fact, they even say do NOT install one--because it replaces the manual pump and those instructions clearly call for one. I suspect that may because you'd have to go with the solenoid I described above.

So I'd do two things: call Paul Campagna 978-282-5246 at Jabsco and ask him why this has suddenly started happening...and unless he can give you very good reason why you shoudn't, install the vented loop with the solenoid in the intake line. In fact, I'll be on the phone to him as soon as I can find time to ask him the same question!

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Thanks for your response. The previous pump was a "standard Jabsco" head. I purchased a conversion kit that replaced the manual pump with an electric macerating pump. It used the existing plumbing. The line now goes from the pump to the top of the bowl. Why would it start siphoning now after not siphoning after a month of use?

If the toilet is below the waterline as it is on most boats, it's not siphoning...water outside the boat is seeking--and finding!--it's own level INside the boat. There are a couple of possible explanations for why it waited a month to start doing this: 1. Till now everyone who's been aboard has been careful to leave the wet/dry (they call it "flush/discharge") knob in the "discharge" position, but somebody is now leaving it in the "flush" position. 2. The "flush/discharge" assembly has failed...turning the knob no longer blocking the flow of flush water to the bowl.

Both possibilities only illustrate why a vented loop in the intake is so important when a toilet is below, or even at, the waterline...and ALWAYS on a sailboat, because heeling changes the waterline...and because a)people are fallible...and b)whatever CAN fail, will. The vented loop is a "failsafe" to save people from themselves.

I just pulled up the installation instructions for that toilet...and I'm amazed that they call for a vented loop in the DISCHARGE if the toilet is at or below waterline, but there's no mention of the need for a vented loop in the intake line--in fact, they even say do NOT install one (?!) because it replaces the manual pump and those instructions clearly call for one. I suspect that may because you'd have to go with the solenoid I described above.

So I'd do two things: call Paul Campagna 978-282-5246 at Jabsco and ask him why this has suddenly started happening...and unless he can give you very good reason why you shoudn't, install the vented loop with the solenoid in the intake line. In fact, I'll be on the phone to him as soon as I can find time to ask him the same question!

 

[Skipro]

If the toilet is below the waterline as it is on most boats, it's not siphoning...water outside the boat is seeking--and finding!--it's own level INside the boat. There are a couple of possible explanations for why it waited a month to start doing this: 1. Till now everyone who's been aboard has been careful to leave the wet/dry (they call it "flush/discharge") knob in the "discharge" position, but somebody is now leaving it in the "flush" position. 2. The "flush/discharge" assembly has failed...turning the knob no longer blocking the flow of flush water to the bowl.

Both possibilities only illustrate why a vented loop in the intake is so important when a toilet is below, or even at, the waterline...and ALWAYS on a sailboat, because heeling changes the waterline...and because a)people are fallible...and b)whatever CAN fail, will. The vented loop is a "failsafe" to save people from themselves.

I just pulled up the installation instructions for that toilet...and I'm amazed that they call for a vented loop in the DISCHARGE if the toilet is at or below waterline, but there's no mention of the need for a vented loop in the intake line--in fact, they even say do NOT install one (?!) because it replaces the manual pump and those instructions clearly call for one. I suspect that may because you'd have to go with the solenoid I described above.

So I'd do two things: call Paul Campagna 978-282-5246 at Jabsco and ask him why this has suddenly started happening...and unless he can give you very good reason why you shoudn't, install the vented loop with the solenoid in the intake line. In fact, I'll be on the phone to him as soon as I can find time to ask him the same question!

Peggie,

I checked the information that came with my Jabsco Model 37010 Series Conversion Kit and it does indeed state that I should have a vented loop in the intake hose "about 8"above the waterline at all angles of heel or trim".

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

It would have been helpful if you'd checked it before you posted, and especially if you'd mentioned WHICH Jabsco "conversion" from the get-go...'cuz there are several...and when you said, "I purchased a conversion kit that replaced the manual pump with an electric macerating pump. It used the existing plumbing.," you provided a perfect description of this Jabsco conversion: 29200_Electric_Conversion.

Also always a good idea to read all the installation, operation and maintenance instructions before using any new equipment whether you installed it or not--even if the builder did (at least 90% builders don't bother to install intake vented loops in below-waterline toilets)--'cuz it's amazing how much you'll learn that you didn't know about how to prevent most problems.

 

[JamesG161]

Did you do the test in my last post?

A siphon is a "dynamic thing".

If flow is stopped, siphoning stops!

It is that simple. Sometimes the flow needs to stop for a while to allow the down grade side of the pipe to drain and it will drain!

A siphon will only happen after the flow starts "over the hill".

Jim...

PS: Instructions are great on an install, but x-ray vision is only for Superman.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You're trying to turn this into a much more complex problem than it is. The problem isn't a siphon...it's simply water outside the boat seeking its own level INside the boat...and, without an air break and a "hill" that extends well above the waterline installed in the intake, succeeding in doing so. The only water that should enter the bowl after the flush button is released is any that's in the line from the top of the loop...which in a 3/4" line that's only 3' high, should be less than half a cup, which flushing the toilet in the "dry" mode evacuates from the bowl.