Sea Tow Refusal / Insurance question

[ontherocks83]

This is a bit of a long question but it has to do with refusing emergency services during an emergency.

This past summer while sailing in RI, I heard a couple of maydays called in that Sea Tow, Boat US, or other providers responded to much faster than the Coast Guard. In a lot of cases I heard over the radio the CG never even showed up and the CG just asked them to call when everything was settled.

One case in particular got me thinking about insurance/liability. .

There was a boat not far from Point Judith that called in a Mayday because they were taking on water from an unknown source. From the radio traffic I gathered that the boat owner had a Boat US membership and that Boat US was in route but were 15 mins out. Sea Tow was less than 5 minutes out and responded they were on their way to assist.

The Captain of the sinking vessel refused the Sea Tow assistance (I'm assuming because he didn't want to pay them) and Sea Tow made him explicitly say he was refusing their help over the radio.

My main question is, if you were to refuse another providers help and your boat sank while waiting for your membership provider or the CG to show up, would your insurance not cover your loss because it could have been prevented? (I'm assuming yes)

The other question is, I know if you get a tow from a non-membership provider you are going to pay out the nose. Can the provider you do not have a membership with bill you with an assistance charge in an emergency such as sinking or can they only charge you for non-emergency assistance like towing?

 

[Kings Gambit]

My insurance policy says that as the owner & skipper, I have an obligation to mitigate or take necessary steps to avoid loss. On the other hand, ins does not want you to sign contracts for salvage/towing assistance from non-sanctioned operators. When I boated on the east coast, it was boaters’ tribal legacy to absolutely refuse assistance from SeaTow operators showing up ahead of whatever the ins company had dispatched, etc.

 

[ontherocks83]

My insurance policy says that as the owner & skipper, I have an obligation to mitigate or take necessary steps to avoid loss. On the other hand, ins does not want you to sign contracts for salvage/towing assistance from non-sanctioned operators. When I boated on the east coast, it was boater’s tribal legacy to absolutely refuse assistance from SeaTow operators showing up ahead of whatever the ins company had dispatched, etc.

I'm a bit confused by this. You have to prevent loss as best you can, but refuse help from people not in their pocket? and if you are sinking the last person you are calling is the INS company. Could you clarify a bit?

 

[Kings Gambit]

It’s a balancing act. I’d get on the phone to the insurance company to advise the adjuster the exigency of the situation, if possible. Get his/her concurrence to hook up SeaTow or possibly suffer loss. However, in the end, I’d do whatever was necessary, in my judgement, in time to save the boat & crew, then fight it out (i.e., who pays) later if necessary with the ins company using their own policy stipulations (mitigate loss) as my “sword.” There’s no fail-safe formula. Best to just stay out of trouble.

 

[ontherocks83]

I get there is no fail safe formula, but you're telling me if your boat was taking on water you'd actually stop to call the insurance company?

I know you said if "possible" but, if it were possible then it wouldn't really be a true "emergency" hence forth you wouldn't be in real jeopardy of sinking. The last person I would ever think of calling whilst talking on water would be my insurance company.

I'm not trying to be confrontational or snarky but it seems a bit crazy to call someone that can do Absolutely nothing to save your boat in that moment.

 

[ontherocks83]

The two big questions are

Would you be held liable for refusing assistance? (because it might cost you out of pocket)

and

Can a non-membership provider charge you for assisting you while sinking and saving your boat?

I know since I have a Sea Tow membership that if they show up and throw a pump in my boat I am covered, but if Tow Boat US or another service shows up I don't know if or how much they can charge me.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Maybe reading your own policy would clarify your options. It can take a boat a few hours to actually sink if the ingress rate is not high and the bilge pump(s) are working well enough to slow down watering. Clearly you’re not going to make a cell phone call to the company using one hand while pulling the rip cord on your life raft with the other. Sounds like the skipper in the situation you describe had time to “wait.”

 

[Kings Gambit]

The two big questions are

Would you be held liable for refusing assistance? (because it might cost you out of pocket)

If it comes by way of a Mayday call, I’d say yes. If you have enough time to wait for a second boat to arrive, you might have radioed (hailed) your ins provider directly to begin with to ask for the assistance..

 

[Rick D]

I do not believe there is a clear answer here as to the insurance question. If a refusal of aid results in a loss, I believe the insurer would have a good reason to explore a policy violation. (Also, no one mentioned it, but many policies will cover costs incurred in preventing or mitigating loss from a covered event.) If the other tower is a short time away, and the skipper's good judgement is that there is little risk in waiting, then I think the insurer would have a tough time executing on a policy violation. In other words, it would be evaluated individually within the totality of facts.

 

[sailme88]

The CG will do everything in there power to NOT tow. Just recently off the New England coast they had to respond to a disabled vessel. They took the vessel in tow until they got inside the demarcation line and handed the vessel off to a for pay towing concern.

My insurance pays for towing. So I am at liberty to use who ever shows up first.

I needed assistance 2 years ago when I caught a phantom lobster pot line. These are usually recreational fishermen that are unaware of the tide changes. The may drop a pot in 48' feet of water with 48' of line at mid-tide. It's just lurking there waiting for you at 3/4 tide.... I issued a Sécurité.....ans asked for wake consideration. Sea Tow and Tow Boats US both showed up without hailing them specifically.

 

[bawlmer]

I would think your insurance company would be happy to pay for an "out of network" assist as the boat would not be a total loss. My .02 of course.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I would think your insurance company would be happy to pay for an "out of network" assist as the boat would not be a total loss. My .02 of course.

The reticence is tied up with a wariness of the piratical behavior of “salvagers.” The companies don’t want their insureds to sign contracts with salvagers, like SeaTow, for $2,000 or some such to pull the boat off of a mud mound. Salvage contracts are complicated. Not good for the naive boater.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I feel like I’m preaching to the choir every time I suggest that people avoid contracting with any single tow company and instead simply add tow coverage to the existing boat insurance which allows far more flexibility and obviously also avoids the scenario described by the OP.

 

[Rick486]

What am I missing here? Here is a situation with a boat in danger of sinking, putting people in the water, and we are arguing over insurance coverage. Were it me, I'd ensure the safety of my passengers first, then worry about coverage later. And by the way, what negligence on my part put my passengers in danger in the first place?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

What am I missing here? Here is a situation with a boat in danger of sinking, putting people in the water, and we are arguing over insurance coverage. Were it me, I'd ensure the safety of my passengers first, then worry about coverage later. And by the way, what negligence on my part put my passengers in danger in the first place?

Yup. That fundamental point seemed to get lost in a debate about insurance.

 

[ontherocks83]

What am I missing here? Here is a situation with a boat in danger of sinking, putting people in the water, and we are arguing over insurance coverage. Were it me, I'd ensure the safety of my passengers first, then worry about coverage later. And by the way, what negligence on my part put my passengers in danger in the first place?

I agree with you on both parts. However the situation I'm describing seemed like at the time it wasn't a dire situation (as in they couldn't completely keep up with the ingress, but they knew they would eventually lose the war).

I'm talking totally hypothetically, about the consequences of denying rescue should things go bad later, and if a sea service can charge you crazy money for throwing a pump in your boat.

I have Markel as my insurance and I know they cover some towing/services but I don't believe claiming a thousand/s dollar bill would be worth putting a claim on my record. I'll have to call and see what they say.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Yup. That fundamental point seemed to get lost in a debate about insurance.

According to the thread moniker, this is a debate about insurance.

 

[jssailem]

Best to just stay out of trouble.

 

[nightowle]

OK, say you're in a bad situation but not sinking anytime immediately. You need a tow but it's not your insurance companies preferred service that arrives. Wouldn't you have the opportunity to say to the tow captain, "I'm using your service for kedging me off this sand bar and towing me back to port; this is not a salvage.....are you in agreement?" Anything wrong with this? (I'd probably want to record my question and the captain's answer on my mobile).

 

[CarlN]

The issue here is "salvage". It's a little known fact that both SeaTow and BoatUS make a lot of their profits from a few salvage jobs each year. Most boat owners have no idea that calling SeaTow or BoatUS can result in a $25,000 or even $100,000 bill. The free towing only applies to non-distress situation. Even a "hard grounding" on a rock is not handled under the free tow but is "salvage". Salvage is an ancient set of laws from the 1600's developed by Lloyds insurance company in England. The goal was to have salvors risk their lives to save an insured vessel's cargo (no one really cared about the crew's life in those days, the insurance value was all in the cargo). Salvage jobs are conducted under the rules of "no cure no pay". If the salvor fails to rescue the ship he is paid nothing. If he rescues the ship he goes to Admiralty Court and asks for a salvors reward which is measured as a percentage of the vessels value. Often over 50%. The court awards big rewards that have nothing to do with the time spent because the whole idea is for people to risk their lives to reduce the insurance company's payout. This system is still in place today and when TowBoat or BoatUS approach you they may hand you a Lloyds salvage contract to sign if they think it's a serious situation. Before signing it the insurance company would like you to call but if you don't they will still pay salvage awards. But the insurance company would also usually pay if you refuse to sign the salvage agreement because you don't think it's that serious. They will not give you a free tow if they think it's salvage. Salvors have a reputation for turning simple problems into large salvage awards. There are huge salvage tugs always at sea hoping to be the first to get a line on a distressed cargo ship to win a salvors award. Captains are known to refuse to take a line to prevent that. Here's BoatUS discussion of how a grounding turned into a $14,500 salvage claim Towing Vs. Salvage: Settling Disputes Inexpensively. In the piece they say that "salvage" is 3% of BoatUS's jobs. 97% are the free towing. Sounds reasonable unless you are one of the 3%. And here's a ocean going salvage tug at work. High risk - high reward. If they rescue the tanker, the salvors award will be tens of millions of dollars. But still, you'd think the guy with the heaving line would at least clip in.