Sea Anchor / Drift Sock

[FourPoints]

Came across this, $45 for the kit it's a great price, but I can't seem to find any info about how large a boat this would be good for. I really just don't know what a appropriate sized drift sock would be for a given size boat.

Are there any sizing suggestions for a drift anchor?


http://www.amazon.com/Weston-50-011...sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1302019575&sr=1-47
There is also a 54" for about the same price, but it seems it's not carried by amazon.

I don't really need one, but if one of this size will work for my boat I may pick it up anyway.

 

[JVB]

If you are looking for something to use in stormy conditions a better option is the Jordan Series Drogue discussed in this thread:

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=699386&highlight=series drogue

A series of small drogues is supposed to give a steady drag instead of the line jerking of a single drogue

 

[FourPoints]

I'm familiar with the Jordan series drogues, and intend to buy one when I get a boat large enough to do blue water sailing. For now I'm just sailing on Long Island Sound where it isn't needed.

I figure having a drift anchor is probably a good idea in the event that I get caught out in bad weather and the engine decides to quit, it could buy me extra time to rig the sails to heave to, or just ride out below.

Not something I expect to use on LIS, but if this one is large enough to be of use for my boat, $50 is well worth it to have on hand.

 

[sailaway78]

Is a fishing drift sock

That sounds like a fishing drift sock. Used to slow the boat down when drift fishing. Not sure how much it would slow your boat down, as they are typically used for 22 or 24 foot fishing boats.

 

[Ed A]

These are not what you need, in the situation you describe you could just put ot an anchor.
Sea Anchors are large, in close quarters not what you want. The sea anchor is what you want AT SEA not in a closed harbor, they requere room to set and retrive and lots of line and line handling.

I know its kinda salty thinking about it but way overkill for what your describe
The small ones work to slow a little fishing boat on a calm day.

 

[FourPoints]

hmm, so it sounds like this is probably too small to be of any use to me then?

Last year I was caught an hour out from the dock in a storm that wasn't forecasted to reach us for 2.5 hours, blowing 35-40kts. I took down the sails and motored straight into the wind (which was also the direction of my harbor) making about 1kt headway for an hour and a half till it died down and was able to make it in.

I have thought about what I would have done if the engine quit or ran out of fuel (running at full power, a real possibility if that storm had lasted into the night). I was about 7-8nm from the lee shore, and the depth is between 70-150ft deep for most of the stretch. I could have thrown the anchor and let out the full 200' of rhode and it would have probably caught before hitting the lee shore, but a way to slow the approach of land would have been comforting.

 

[Winkfish]

The small ones work to slow a little fishing boat on a calm day.

They actually work quite well on windy days on even moderately large boats. I use one quite a lot. But it is not a sea anchor for riding out a storm in a sailboat. A larger version might be good for just slowing the boat down, say, in addition to heaving to, or slowing your drift and helping keep you heading the right way if your engine dies.

 

[FourPoints]

Has anyone tried one of this size before on their boat to see what effect it has?

 

[kenn]

As already mentioned, the Jordan Series Drogue is about the last word on sea anchors, and well worth consideration for big-water sailors.

Much as I love Amazon, I don't think they'd be my go-to place for boat safety equipment. And that isn't much of a sea anchor.

In a pinch, sailors have used everything from a sail bag containing laundry to a jib gathered at the corners as an emergency drogue or sea anchor.

For the conditions you mention, (close to shore, 70-150 ft to bottom) you might be better off by buying a second anchor and rode.

 

[Stroh]

More description:

http://www.boaterscatalog.com/item--Drift-Anchors--weston_drift

 

[Ray Bowles]

Based on the supplied link, its picture and mentioned price it doesn't appear to be substancial enough for your intended use. A sea anchor holds the bow into the wind (usual deployment) and excerts a huge load on the bow of the boat and the deck fittings it is attached to. A huge load. A H27 will require additional beefing up for the deck attachment points. In most cases of shoreside sailing I'd be very concerned about the lee shore. Once you're on that anchor it's not easy or fast to recover in case the need to, or re-acquire the ability to, power-up. You'll probably just cut it off.
You can also trail your actual boat anchor on 25 to 50 feet of rode as a sea anchor from either boat end. The anchor is never intended to reach the sea bottom.
Trailing warps would probably work much better in your case. With your cockpit design and the open transom you don't need to worry as much about getting "pooped on". Better storm sails would also improve the odds against having to deploy a sea anchor.
Just different options to chose from while looking at a solution to your problem.
Ray

 

[thinwater]

As others have said, this is probably to small to have any real effect. I did test a bunch of drogues and posted the data here:

http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/2010/03/sea-brake-24-test-in-calm-weather-but.html

I would agree with others that the best options for you are probably anchoring or running for shelter. To effectivly stop drift near shore (6-8 miles) a full size sea anchor (8-12 feet) is needed. Smaller ones will barely slow you more than heaving to. Smaller drouges and warps are for running in huge waves that you won't find on the Sound.

 

[Bill Roosa]

I'm amazed! We are talking sail boats right. Why would you worry about the engine dying in a WIND storm??? Pretty sure that is why they designed REEF points in those big cloth things that hang on the tall aluminum pole in the center of the deck.

There are lots of easier and more effective ways of handling the boat in a storm than dropping the sails and motoring. I only do that in summer thunderstorms when I KNOW that it will blow over in a few minutes. For instance heaving to, reefing down, dropping anchor (depth permitting), running down wind (given that is the direction you want to go and there is sea room).
Also, note that a drogue deployed over the bow allows the boat to drift backward. Consider the forces on the rudder when this happens. You could very easily break the rudder with the wrong size droge.

I’m thinking that if you put up the main and motor sailed you would have made much more progress toward your destination and had a better ride. With the main up the boat does not roll much at all and you get additional forward thrust.

Ultimate storm tactics in sheltered waters is probably mutually exclusive terminology.

 

[FourPoints]

My main only has/had one reef (part of the reason i ordered a new one with 2 reefs last fall, that should be arriving in a few weeks), and in 35-40kts it was way too much sail (i tried).

I've read a lot on the Jordan series drogues, and the guy who designed them suggests with a sloop or cutter (but not a ketch or yawl) you should moor from the stern in storm conditions because of the main wind effect will be on the mast, and this allows the boat to ride much smoother, and stress things less, would the same not apply to something like this?

 

[rgranger]

Yes I have

Has anyone tried one of this size before on their boat to see what effect it has?

Yes but not in the situation you described. I have a "vintage" canvas drogue sewed to an iron ring. And I use it when I want to take a swim and don't want the boat to drift away from me faster than I can catch up. I have not used it in a storm.

 

[thinwater]

My main only has/had one reef (part of the reason i ordered a new one with 2 reefs last fall, that should be arriving in a few weeks), and in 35-40kts it was way too much sail (i tried).

I've read a lot on the Jordan series drogues, and the guy who designed them suggests with a sloop or cutter (but not a ketch or yawl) you should moor from the stern in storm conditions because of the main wind effect will be on the mast, and this allows the boat to ride much smoother, and stress things less, would the same not apply to something like this?

I'ld go with 3 reefs, if you can change it. 2 can be too much for good control. You may never use the 3rd reef.

35-40 knots. Quite a squal line too, with higher gusts. I doubt anyone here would sail your boat into that with any great success. Please don't be offended, Bill, but saying otherwise in that boat is probably just talk. I do, however, agree in priciple. I just dislike the idea of presenting what might well be an unrealistic plan. THe OP was concerned about engine failure, so motor sailing is not exactly a solution, though as you say, it can help.

Having sailed for 30 years and having expereinced many surprises, your mistake was trusting a weather forecast the way you did. The weather was EXCACTLY as predicted, just a bit early. It could easily been sustained at 60 knots (it was where I was) and no combination of sails or engine would have worked well for you, close to a lee shore. Be conservative with changable weather.


I don't think a JSD makes sence in the Sound. The advantage of the JSD is in huge waves. A large parachute is better for parking, but a ground anchor is better yet.

 

[FourPoints]

I'd go with 3 reefs, if you can change it. 2 can be too much for good control. You may never use the 3rd reef.

35-40 knots. Quite a squal line too, with higher gusts. I doubt anyone here would sail your boat into that with any great success. Please don't be offended, Bill, but saying otherwise in that boat is probably just talk. I do, however, agree in priciple. I just dislike the idea of presenting what might well be an unrealistic plan. THe OP was concerned about engine failure, so motor sailing is not exactly a solution, though as you say, it can help.

Having sailed for 30 years and having expereinced many surprises, your mistake was trusting a weather forecast the way you did. The weather was EXCACTLY as predicted, just a bit early. It could easily been sustained at 60 knots (it was where I was) and no combination of sails or engine would have worked well for you, close to a lee shore. Be conservative with changable weather.


I don't think a JSD makes sence in the Sound. The advantage of the JSD is in huge waves. A large parachute is better for parking, but a ground anchor is better yet.

I considered 3 reefs, but realized that with my rig, the 3rd reef was going to be so far up the sail as to be pretty much useless.

The peak of that storm was only a few minutes, but the gusts did tear my storm jib in a few places, and would have shredded it if I hadn't taken it down. Still need to get that repaired... Most of the storm was blowing about 30, gusting 35kts. My anemometer did record a gust of 47kts (just about the same time the storm jib started to rip apart too). It spawned a tornado or two on Long Island that day.

As to trusting the forecast too much, you are correct, it was exactly as forecasted, just very early. I heard the weather update that a storm was heading out way and immediately checked 2 online forecasts and while listening to wx 1 on the VHF, they all said the same thing, that we had plenty of time to make it back to the dock safely (so I headed back immediately). The storm just blew in way faster than anyone expected. When we started home (about 8nm to go, with a favorable wind) the storm had not even reached Philadelphia yet, and was forecasted to reach Newark in 2 hours, and reach us in just under 3 hours... In less than one hour it was on top of us.


My goal is just to have a backup plan should I again get caught by a very fast moving storm before I am able to duck into a secure harbor. I can motor against whatever weather will suddenly come up on the sound and if not make much headway, at least keep off the lee shore, for as long as the motor runs... Since the sound has some pretty deep areas, I figure something to try slow wind drift would be good to have as part of my arsenal.

rgranger brought up a useful idea of keeping the boat in place while swimming. I normally throw out a 50' line tied to a small fender in case the boat starts to drift quickly away from the swimmers, the line would be trailing behind the boat and you can use it to pull yourself back in. For $50-60, I think I'm going to buy this to secure the boat while swimming (and get a heavier "swim" line to go with it). Once I see how effective it is while swimming, I'll have an idea if it would actually be effective against heavier weather or not.

 

[Gary_H]

Sea anchors and drogues I believe are used for different things. If you are in severe weather at sea you want to heave to and if you are unable to hold your heave to position then you would use a sea anchor with a bridle setup to maintain a heave to position at 50 degrees to the wind. I believe an 8ft parachute is recommended for a 24-30 ft boat. I've never used any of this equipment but This was the information given in Lin and Larry Pardeys book "Storm Tactics" They have quit a lot of sea time and storm experience.

 

[thinwater]

Perhaps the best thing that can happen to a sailor is to be not just beaten, but overwhelmed and destroyed by a storm, much like Santiago was by the fish in The Old Man and the Sea; destroyed but unbowed. Hopefully you do this in a sailing dingy or such, and no serious harm is done.

As a bike racer in college I crashed and broke my kneecap in 16 pieces. Throughout my climbing and sailing career, perhaps it was the best thing that could have happened to me. I was too bold, and eventually something very bad would have happend, as I tempted fate more and more. Afterwards I remained bold enough, but aware of my mortality.

___________________________

The sail area with 3 reefs is not much, but it's about balance. Most boats sail far better with a scrap of jib and main. Ask other sailors with the same boat.

 

[rgranger]

As a bike racer in college I crashed and broke my kneecap in 16 pieces. Throughout my climbing and sailing career, perhaps it was the best thing that could have happened to me. I was too bold, and eventually something very bad would have happend, as I tempted fate more and more. Afterwards I remained bold enough, but aware of my mortality.

___________________________

The sail area with 3 reefs is not much, but it's about balance. Most boats sail far better with a scrap of jib and main. Ask other sailors with the same boat.

God was working in mysterious ways perhaps?. For me it was a wrestling accident. I slipped a disk in my neck and partially paralyzed my left arm for nearly 6 months. The doctors told me I was done wrestling. And so went my plans to be a wrestling coach some day. Now I'm a professor of chemistry at a small liberal arts college. Go figure.