Is there any real differance between Schaefer and Harken equipment. I have replaced some of my older things with Schaefer, but I know there seems to be alot more boats with Harken equipment. Is the quality the same? Dale
Schaefer vs Harken
- Thread starter paphman
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Depends on what you're comparing
since each of them has different "lines" of blocks and materials. In addition, if your are seriously thinking about quality, I recommend that you consider Garhauer who make the OEM blocks on Catalinas and have for years. They are highly thought of as high quality material, and happen to have the lowest prices around.
since each of them has different "lines" of blocks and materials. In addition, if your are seriously thinking about quality, I recommend that you consider Garhauer who make the OEM blocks on Catalinas and have for years. They are highly thought of as high quality material, and happen to have the lowest prices around.
I agree with Bert
they are all good! You need to look at each piece and decide which is better for your need and compare that to the price difference.
they are all good! You need to look at each piece and decide which is better for your need and compare that to the price difference.
I agree with Stu (and Bert too)
The last several upgrade/additions/replacements of blocks have been Garhauer. There prices have been excellent and quality has been at or above many of the more "popular" name out there. Their customer service has also been very good. I'd have to be given a pretty good reason to look elsewhere for my hardware upgrades. T J
The last several upgrade/additions/replacements of blocks have been Garhauer. There prices have been excellent and quality has been at or above many of the more "popular" name out there. Their customer service has also been very good. I'd have to be given a pretty good reason to look elsewhere for my hardware upgrades. T J
even better buys on Garhauer
look on e bay under sailing hardware for port paragons e bay store for unbeatable Garhauer buys or call 952 401 3792 , no i have no connection to ....simply a satisfied customer .
look on e bay under sailing hardware for port paragons e bay store for unbeatable Garhauer buys or call 952 401 3792 , no i have no connection to ....simply a satisfied customer .
Like everyone said...
Garhauer! The best blocks out there. Every block that I replace on my H30 will be a Garhauer.
Garhauer! The best blocks out there. Every block that I replace on my H30 will be a Garhauer.
No Garhauer For Me
The threads I have seen on this site in the past always seem to talk about Garhauer being the cheapest. Last year I had sheaves on three Garhauer blocks deteriorate. Wrote to Garhauer asking for replacements and waited a long time for their unsatisfactory reply which failed to answer my questions. Talked to two major San Diego riggers who both advised against using Garhauer equipment as they consider it inferior to Schaefer and Harken. They acknowledged Garhauer is always cheaper but advised you will get what you pay for. So, personally I do not replace with Garhauer as their equipment on my boat (15 years old) has shown considerable deterioration over Schaefer or Harken. Cheapest does not always translate to the best buy.
The threads I have seen on this site in the past always seem to talk about Garhauer being the cheapest. Last year I had sheaves on three Garhauer blocks deteriorate. Wrote to Garhauer asking for replacements and waited a long time for their unsatisfactory reply which failed to answer my questions. Talked to two major San Diego riggers who both advised against using Garhauer equipment as they consider it inferior to Schaefer and Harken. They acknowledged Garhauer is always cheaper but advised you will get what you pay for. So, personally I do not replace with Garhauer as their equipment on my boat (15 years old) has shown considerable deterioration over Schaefer or Harken. Cheapest does not always translate to the best buy.
Blocks ...
Interesting. The best block? ... It depends ... What are your priorities? Harken is 3 or 4 time more expensive than Garhauer. Dealers get 40% off list. $40 profit on a $100 block. Schaefer is about twice as expensive as Garhauer. Dealers get 40% off list. $20 profit on a $50 block. Garhauer sells direct on-line and to O.E.M. Dealers get 40% off list. $10 profit on a $25 block. You are only going to sell a certain number of blocks to a customer. It costs the same in display space for each block. You only have room to stock and display a certain number of blocks. If you stock and sell 100 Harken blocks that retail for $100, you make $4000 profit for your floor space. Stock 100 Garhauer blocks and you can make $1000 for the same space. If your priority is return on retail space, which block will you try to sell your customer? When you are talking about 15 year old blocks, what do you expect? Garhauer used to have a 5 year warranty (same as Schaefer and Harken), now they have a 10 year warranty. The blocks on a 15 years old boat are 10 years out of warranty. In Garhauer's case, I can't think of any of their blocks that have the same design as they did 15 years ago. Schaefer is just coming out with a new line of blocks, but their catalog is filled with blocks that haven't changed in more than 20 years. Many of their blocks are plain axle designs (no ball bearings). Harken has been using ball bearings in most of their block since day one. Harken blocks either run freer under load or are lighter (sometimes both) than most other blocks. Do we expect blocks to last forever? Judging from how often people have their masts pulled for inspection and their rigging checked, I would say yes. It is not uncommon to see 20-30 year old boats with the original rigging (and sails). It's not right, but that's the way many sailors treat their boats. Then when things finally give up they are outraged by the cost of replacement. Hell, sailors are well known to be cheap. It's as if they think, "The wind is free, so should everything else be."
There are some applications where only one manufacturer has a block that is best. In most cases you have a choice. There are some blocks that have problems in some applications. For a rigger to condemn a brand out of hand is suspect. (profit motive?) I just finished rigging a 50 foot custom yacht. Carbon Fibre Hull, Carbon Fibre Mast, spreaders, and Boom, Navtec PBO rigging, B&G Instrument System ($12,000 just in display heads) ... The hardware? Harken. I've also rigged new Catalinas ... Garhauer. Schaefer and Garhauer build blocks for the O.E.M. market. Face it, most production boats use hardware that is just good enough and consistant with the price range of the boat. Beneteau, Catalina, and Hunter don't spend a dime more than they have to for hardware. Harken is O.E.M. for high performace dinghies and limited production race boats. The priorities are completely different. That doesn't make Harken better and Garhauer worse. Just that when the priority is keeping weight down and having free running blocks under huge loads, Harken is the correct choice. When priorities are different, like value for dollar, Garhauer is a good choice. Our shop stocks mostly Garhauer and Harken blocks. Schaefer makes some of the nicest halyard exit blocks around, many of the masts we build get Schaefer exits. Schaefer T-Track is pretty much the industry standard. I just got some Schaefer mooring cleats that are absolute jewelry. We feel that Garhauer quality is good. Although sometimes inconsistent cosmetically, and they tend to improve/modify items often. My boat has Harken blocks for the spinnaker halyards (every ounce counts), I'm probably going to use Garhauer at the mast base. Deck organizers are Garhauer. Rope Clutches are Lewmar. Cam cleats are Harken. Genoa turning blocks are Harken. Jib sheet blocks are Harken. Genoa sheet blocks are Garhauer's EZ-Glide. Primary Winches are Harken. Traveller and mainsheet blocks are Harken. Ratchet blocks are Harken (although Frederickson makes some very nice ones, Garhauer doesn't make any) ... you get the idea ... Spend the money according to your priorities ... Snatch blocks? Nico-Fico (now Ronstan) are the standard, Harken snatch blocks are huge and clunky, Garhauer snatch blocks are ... well ... humorous ... Best blocks? ... It depends ...
Interesting. The best block? ... It depends ... What are your priorities? Harken is 3 or 4 time more expensive than Garhauer. Dealers get 40% off list. $40 profit on a $100 block. Schaefer is about twice as expensive as Garhauer. Dealers get 40% off list. $20 profit on a $50 block. Garhauer sells direct on-line and to O.E.M. Dealers get 40% off list. $10 profit on a $25 block. You are only going to sell a certain number of blocks to a customer. It costs the same in display space for each block. You only have room to stock and display a certain number of blocks. If you stock and sell 100 Harken blocks that retail for $100, you make $4000 profit for your floor space. Stock 100 Garhauer blocks and you can make $1000 for the same space. If your priority is return on retail space, which block will you try to sell your customer? When you are talking about 15 year old blocks, what do you expect? Garhauer used to have a 5 year warranty (same as Schaefer and Harken), now they have a 10 year warranty. The blocks on a 15 years old boat are 10 years out of warranty. In Garhauer's case, I can't think of any of their blocks that have the same design as they did 15 years ago. Schaefer is just coming out with a new line of blocks, but their catalog is filled with blocks that haven't changed in more than 20 years. Many of their blocks are plain axle designs (no ball bearings). Harken has been using ball bearings in most of their block since day one. Harken blocks either run freer under load or are lighter (sometimes both) than most other blocks. Do we expect blocks to last forever? Judging from how often people have their masts pulled for inspection and their rigging checked, I would say yes. It is not uncommon to see 20-30 year old boats with the original rigging (and sails). It's not right, but that's the way many sailors treat their boats. Then when things finally give up they are outraged by the cost of replacement. Hell, sailors are well known to be cheap. It's as if they think, "The wind is free, so should everything else be."
There are some applications where only one manufacturer has a block that is best. In most cases you have a choice. There are some blocks that have problems in some applications. For a rigger to condemn a brand out of hand is suspect. (profit motive?) I just finished rigging a 50 foot custom yacht. Carbon Fibre Hull, Carbon Fibre Mast, spreaders, and Boom, Navtec PBO rigging, B&G Instrument System ($12,000 just in display heads) ... The hardware? Harken. I've also rigged new Catalinas ... Garhauer. Schaefer and Garhauer build blocks for the O.E.M. market. Face it, most production boats use hardware that is just good enough and consistant with the price range of the boat. Beneteau, Catalina, and Hunter don't spend a dime more than they have to for hardware. Harken is O.E.M. for high performace dinghies and limited production race boats. The priorities are completely different. That doesn't make Harken better and Garhauer worse. Just that when the priority is keeping weight down and having free running blocks under huge loads, Harken is the correct choice. When priorities are different, like value for dollar, Garhauer is a good choice. Our shop stocks mostly Garhauer and Harken blocks. Schaefer makes some of the nicest halyard exit blocks around, many of the masts we build get Schaefer exits. Schaefer T-Track is pretty much the industry standard. I just got some Schaefer mooring cleats that are absolute jewelry. We feel that Garhauer quality is good. Although sometimes inconsistent cosmetically, and they tend to improve/modify items often. My boat has Harken blocks for the spinnaker halyards (every ounce counts), I'm probably going to use Garhauer at the mast base. Deck organizers are Garhauer. Rope Clutches are Lewmar. Cam cleats are Harken. Genoa turning blocks are Harken. Jib sheet blocks are Harken. Genoa sheet blocks are Garhauer's EZ-Glide. Primary Winches are Harken. Traveller and mainsheet blocks are Harken. Ratchet blocks are Harken (although Frederickson makes some very nice ones, Garhauer doesn't make any) ... you get the idea ... Spend the money according to your priorities ... Snatch blocks? Nico-Fico (now Ronstan) are the standard, Harken snatch blocks are huge and clunky, Garhauer snatch blocks are ... well ... humorous ... Best blocks? ... It depends ... 
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