A 1979, 39' Irwin Citation belonging to a friend sank, in fresh water, at the dock last Monday. We were able to raise the boat the same day, but the boat, including the Yanmar 3QM30, was completely under water. I've been offered the boat at a VERY reasonable price but have a big concern about whether the engine can be salvaged without pulling and rebuilding it. What actions should I take at this point or should I walk away from this. The boat is covered with a film of deisel and will have to be pressure washed, rewired and much more, most of which I can do. the engine is a large financial outlay that I am nervous about.
saving a submerged engine
- Thread starter jluke
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submerged motor
I had an outboard sink at my dock a few years ago. It was raised, drained pickled and started as soon as it came out of the water. I was told if you wait you lose the opportunity to save the motor. Pickeling meant taking out the plugs and spraying with anti corosion T9 everywhere inside and outside the motor. the motor was turned over and done again and again. Then reassembled and started. WE ran it for several hours. That was the beginning of a several day program to rid all the water and prevent siezing and corosion. I think that if the motor is (even a diesel) not had this immediate attention it is more than likely lost. all electrical connection needed removing and spraying. The motor I speak of here is working fine today.
I had an outboard sink at my dock a few years ago. It was raised, drained pickled and started as soon as it came out of the water. I was told if you wait you lose the opportunity to save the motor. Pickeling meant taking out the plugs and spraying with anti corosion T9 everywhere inside and outside the motor. the motor was turned over and done again and again. Then reassembled and started. WE ran it for several hours. That was the beginning of a several day program to rid all the water and prevent siezing and corosion. I think that if the motor is (even a diesel) not had this immediate attention it is more than likely lost. all electrical connection needed removing and spraying. The motor I speak of here is working fine today.
if the water is still in the engine...first drain it all out and pump out the oil pan area as well....when you have got it all out then put about a gallon and a half of diesel fuel in the crank case...open the compression release and take ratchet and socket and slowly turn it over in the direction it normally turns a few times and then do this for about a couple of days ...then drain it out and put in fresh fuel in the crank case and do it again for a couple of days ......and then do it again one more time....after doing that drain/pump it out...then put in about a gallon of marvel mystery oil oil... and turn it over some more for a few days again by hand.....then drain it out and put in some motor oil like you would normally use in the engine and again turn it over for a couple of days .... make sure you don't fill the cylinders full of fluid because you can hydra lock it and cause damage......then put on a working starter ....bleed the fuel lines.....all the way to the injectors then try to start it up....if it runs without difficulty run it for a little while......then you my be able to save it...hope this helps.........if any one sees something i left out plz tell this thread what it is .......
regards
woody
regards
woody
Monday the 8th of October, or Monday the 1st? Either way you need to act really fast. Woodsters suggestions would be okay, especially if you dont have time to stay on task and follow through with the following.
I would do it the way manufacturers suggest. Drain the oil and pull the injectors. While the oils draining.... If there is water in the fuel tank, disconnect the fuel feed line to the main filter. Drain the fuel filter, or replace it. Hook up a line to a auxiliary fuel supply to the main filter. Open the fuel bleeder. Remove the air cleaner and blow it off or knock the water off it. Put it back on. Put a wrench on the crank pulley and turn the engine slowly by hand at least 4 turns, feeling for heavy resistance. If its real hard to turn or feel its hitting something, the motor needs to come apart (right away). If it turns over okay, continue... Take the wrench off, and crank it with a starter for 15 seconds to clear the water out of the cylinders. Youll probably see it blast out the injector ports. Watch for fuel at the bleeder. Squirt some oil (squirt can, 5 squirts, or pour a few teaspoons full) of oil in the injector ports, let sit a few minutes. Any oil is okay, but MMO is really good. If you have plain old engine oil use that. Dont go running for hours looking for MMO or something, you need to save the engine. Now crank the engine 30 seconds to clear the oil. Watch the fuel bleeder.
This cranking is very critical. Any fluid left behind, oil or water either one, could cause hydraulic lock and break the engine. Cranking it over on the starter (with a decent battery) it will really blow a lot of air through and clear the cylinders. Refill the sump with oil. I would leave the oil filter alone, if it went under not running the oil circuit still has oil in it. If it was running when it went under, and it still turns over, replace the oil filter. There is going to be water inside anyway, the main objective right now, is to get it running as soon as possible. Time is of essence.
Its full of fresh oil, now crank it till you see fuel at the bleeder, tighten bleeder, reinstall injectors, try to start it. Once it starts, let it run on the aux tank while you check your fuel tank for water. If the tank doesnt appear water logged, try hooking it up and reconnect it to your engine. Now let it run until it gets good and warm, watching and listening for any problems. Shut it down and change the oil and filter. Check your fuel filter water trap. Keep checking it. Start it back up and run it around an hour while you keep checking the trap and watching the engine. Change the oil and filter again. The objective with bypassing the main fuel tank is simply to get the motor running asap. You can deal with a wet fuel tank later, first is to save the engine. If your not seeing any water at the tank, go ahead and run it, with the understanding a large gulp of water is going to shut it down and youll have to bleed the entire fuel system, not of air but water (very time consuming).
Water will rust the cylinders real fast, as well as other internal moving parts that are bare metal. Oil can only protect it so much in a submersion situation. Getting it running and getting it hot, as soon as possible, is the only way to clear out the major water and burn off the rest. The only other alternative is disassembling the engine. The oil changes are to rid the engine of water. You change it hot when the water is held in suspension, not after its cold. Filter too. The heat, the oil changes, the air turbulence inside, will all work to rid it of water and put good protective oil onto the surfaces.
Good luck.
I would do it the way manufacturers suggest. Drain the oil and pull the injectors. While the oils draining.... If there is water in the fuel tank, disconnect the fuel feed line to the main filter. Drain the fuel filter, or replace it. Hook up a line to a auxiliary fuel supply to the main filter. Open the fuel bleeder. Remove the air cleaner and blow it off or knock the water off it. Put it back on. Put a wrench on the crank pulley and turn the engine slowly by hand at least 4 turns, feeling for heavy resistance. If its real hard to turn or feel its hitting something, the motor needs to come apart (right away). If it turns over okay, continue... Take the wrench off, and crank it with a starter for 15 seconds to clear the water out of the cylinders. Youll probably see it blast out the injector ports. Watch for fuel at the bleeder. Squirt some oil (squirt can, 5 squirts, or pour a few teaspoons full) of oil in the injector ports, let sit a few minutes. Any oil is okay, but MMO is really good. If you have plain old engine oil use that. Dont go running for hours looking for MMO or something, you need to save the engine. Now crank the engine 30 seconds to clear the oil. Watch the fuel bleeder.
This cranking is very critical. Any fluid left behind, oil or water either one, could cause hydraulic lock and break the engine. Cranking it over on the starter (with a decent battery) it will really blow a lot of air through and clear the cylinders. Refill the sump with oil. I would leave the oil filter alone, if it went under not running the oil circuit still has oil in it. If it was running when it went under, and it still turns over, replace the oil filter. There is going to be water inside anyway, the main objective right now, is to get it running as soon as possible. Time is of essence.
Its full of fresh oil, now crank it till you see fuel at the bleeder, tighten bleeder, reinstall injectors, try to start it. Once it starts, let it run on the aux tank while you check your fuel tank for water. If the tank doesnt appear water logged, try hooking it up and reconnect it to your engine. Now let it run until it gets good and warm, watching and listening for any problems. Shut it down and change the oil and filter. Check your fuel filter water trap. Keep checking it. Start it back up and run it around an hour while you keep checking the trap and watching the engine. Change the oil and filter again. The objective with bypassing the main fuel tank is simply to get the motor running asap. You can deal with a wet fuel tank later, first is to save the engine. If your not seeing any water at the tank, go ahead and run it, with the understanding a large gulp of water is going to shut it down and youll have to bleed the entire fuel system, not of air but water (very time consuming).
Water will rust the cylinders real fast, as well as other internal moving parts that are bare metal. Oil can only protect it so much in a submersion situation. Getting it running and getting it hot, as soon as possible, is the only way to clear out the major water and burn off the rest. The only other alternative is disassembling the engine. The oil changes are to rid the engine of water. You change it hot when the water is held in suspension, not after its cold. Filter too. The heat, the oil changes, the air turbulence inside, will all work to rid it of water and put good protective oil onto the surfaces.
Good luck.
Work
You have your work cut out for you but being it sank in fress water is a big plus,flush with oil into the whole engine and do many times flushing with cheapest oil.
i had a jetski sink in salt water and flushed it with oil over and over and it ran good.
Good luck and being fresh water is a plus.
nick
You have your work cut out for you but being it sank in fress water is a big plus,flush with oil into the whole engine and do many times flushing with cheapest oil.
i had a jetski sink in salt water and flushed it with oil over and over and it ran good.
Good luck and being fresh water is a plus.
nick
Re: Work
Like the guys said above, get all water out of engine anyway you can and replace with oil to prevent corosion. The good thing about a diesel is that other than the air intake and the oil filler cap they are pretty air tight and can be saved. Good luck and let us know how you made out.
Like the guys said above, get all water out of engine anyway you can and replace with oil to prevent corosion. The good thing about a diesel is that other than the air intake and the oil filler cap they are pretty air tight and can be saved. Good luck and let us know how you made out.
Just to be clear, of all the internal parts, the cylinders are the most bare metal part inside the engine. There is a film of oil on them, but it is very, very thin. Bare metal exposed to water, then brought up into air, can rust instantly. This is why manufactures of boat engines often suggest leaving the motor submerged, even in salt water, until your able to follow through with flushing, and getting it running, in one complete motion. Sitting around even one day exposed to air, after a dunking, could cause unrepairable damage.
- Dec 30, 2009
- 680
I agree wf clanker, one other thing though, if the boat is still in the water close the raw water intake during all the earlier cranking, open after it starts......Red
Was able to get over to the boat yesterday to do some work. I disconnected the fuel line as the tank is full of water (another project), and removed two of the three injectors. I couldn't get that fuel line nut off, it got rounded a bit. I'll bring a pair of vise grips and another "special" wrench next time and try it again. I changed the oil and transmission fluid. Then I put some ATF in the two cylinders and turned the engine over manually untill no more fluid was being expelled, then turned the key and the engine spins over freely. Looks good so far. Put some more ATF in and did it again. Next week I'll try to remove the remaining injector , put a fuel line in a container of diesel and try to start it. Then I'll run it for a while and change the oil and filter again. Any other recommendations? I may have dodged a large bullet here, thanks to all for your help!
After you have changed the oil a few times, it would be a good idea to service the engine as per the 500 hour.
Since the engine is not seized, It probably can hbe saved. You never know for sure until you try.
Walk away! The hydraulic pressure, even for a few hours, will have that boats deck a sopping wet mess. Electrical will need 100% replacement, interior cushions, fuel tank cleaned etc. etc. etc.... You can buy a boat needing a lot less $$$ invested..
Too late to walk away, the boat is mine, the family gave it to me, a better deal than I thought. Plan on getting the engine running tomorrow, will pump out the fuel tank as well. Fortunately, most of the cushions were not in the boat when it sank. Just as amazing, as soon as we got the boat pumped out, I turned on the bilge pump and it worked fine! I have some woodwork to do but nothing like bulkheads, the worst thing is the smell of diesel in the boat, everything was saturated with it. I plan on fixing the boat to the point where it can be sold as usable, then selling it and gettin something smaller, around 30' for my grandchildren to use.
For those reading, I followed the hints provided here, pulling the injectors, putting ATF into the injector ports as well as the air intake, turned the engine over with a socket, repeated twice. I changed the oil, pulled the fuel line off the tank and inserted into a container of fresh fuel and the engine started and ran! I've changed the oil again as well as the transmission fluid and everything seems to be normal. Again, thanks to all for their help.
I'm curious about the disclosure expectations when selling a boat that sank, even if it was underwater only a short period of time. A full survey including engine would be standard fare from any prospective buyer.jluke said:
It's not real estate so those laws would seem to not apply.
Any lawyers care to chime in?
I wouldn't think of trying to hide something like that, even if I could. The boat will be sold cheap enough that the sinking will explain it
I am, and always have been a "caveat emptor", buyer beware kind of guy. While its morally right to disclose information that may not be readily seen or discovered, the facts are that everyone is not so moral. As a buyer, I feel a great responsibility rests on my shoulders to know what I'm are looking at. I also take responsibility for my purchase, in that I never come back and whine. IOW, if I was too lazy not to educate myself about something, and bought something with glaring problems, even if the seller was an out and out liar, I would accept my fate.
Auto auctions, and auctions in general operate that way, from both ends of the sale. The seller and auctioneer both, assume the buyer knows what he is looking at, after all, its right there in front of them and they are free to inspect it, and the buyers take the responsibility for their purchase. The only cases I know of where a buyer can squawk is if something is presented with some kind of historical significance and is found to be a fraud/fake.
If you are buying a sailboat, it is imperative that you read and ask questions and educate yourself in all parameters, engine and propulsion, electrical, structural, hardware. The more you study and the more boats you inspect, the better youll be able to tell the turds from the cream puffs. That is, honestly, the only way to improve your odds. Because not every seller, in fact very very few, are going to be honest. And beyond that, even the most honest seller, may not know the boats previous history.
Auto auctions, and auctions in general operate that way, from both ends of the sale. The seller and auctioneer both, assume the buyer knows what he is looking at, after all, its right there in front of them and they are free to inspect it, and the buyers take the responsibility for their purchase. The only cases I know of where a buyer can squawk is if something is presented with some kind of historical significance and is found to be a fraud/fake.
If you are buying a sailboat, it is imperative that you read and ask questions and educate yourself in all parameters, engine and propulsion, electrical, structural, hardware. The more you study and the more boats you inspect, the better youll be able to tell the turds from the cream puffs. That is, honestly, the only way to improve your odds. Because not every seller, in fact very very few, are going to be honest. And beyond that, even the most honest seller, may not know the boats previous history.
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