Owning the Mac 26X for 9 months now and sailing it a lot, I am getting daring, but don't want to get stupid. The last owner who sold me the boat told me not to sail it without the ballast full. After reviewing the manual, it suggests it is fun to do it, but under limited conditions. So for input from people who have sailed the boat with the ballast empty. What conditions, response, safety, and sailing improvement does it make, etc.. As in the past I am appreciative of all and any responses and input.
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I'd advise against sailing it with no ballast
This is a link to a sad story about 26' Mac that capsized when it got top heavy. Two children were caught below and drowned. It is not clear whether the WB tanks were full or empty, but empty tanks are going to make any WB boat more likely to become top-heavy quickly. I've seen my WB boat on the water with the tanks empty, and it bobs like a cork. I'd never sail or motor it with them empty.
This is a link to a sad story about 26' Mac that capsized when it got top heavy. Two children were caught below and drowned. It is not clear whether the WB tanks were full or empty, but empty tanks are going to make any WB boat more likely to become top-heavy quickly. I've seen my WB boat on the water with the tanks empty, and it bobs like a cork. I'd never sail or motor it with them empty.
no water
Sail with no ballast is okay with any sail combination in winds less than 10 mph, no significant seas, only two people on board, and and adequate sailing experience by the skipper. Adequate means at least a dozen sails of several hours or more in gusty conditions so the skipper can read the wind on the water signs so reacts automatically to coming wind shifts. More crew (moveable ballast), more wind, more waves and less practice... and the risks rise significantly.
Sail with no ballast is okay with any sail combination in winds less than 10 mph, no significant seas, only two people on board, and and adequate sailing experience by the skipper. Adequate means at least a dozen sails of several hours or more in gusty conditions so the skipper can read the wind on the water signs so reacts automatically to coming wind shifts. More crew (moveable ballast), more wind, more waves and less practice... and the risks rise significantly.
Know Ballast
I have been out on the water on occassions that made me hesitant to even want to hoist the sails for lack of wind. I have yet to sail without ballast though. I have seen others doing it during those pitifull lack of wind days though and under those circumstances it may be safe to try it out. Even under the most favorable conditions it is a risky venture as the boat is no where near as stable. I would be quite hesitant doing it with an X but with an M (which I have) it may be a bit more feasible since the M comes with #300 of permanent ballast at the base of the daggerboard. If I ever do attempt it I will only do it with two of us aboard and probably keep the engine lowered in the water. Most folks already have a fair amount of ballast in the form of supplies, equipment, tools and other extras in the holds not to mention batteries and gas/water tanks so there may be a safety margin there. I might also want to remain close to shorelines and maybe even have a buddy boat along on the first few trials. It is very likely doable but also risky.
I have been out on the water on occassions that made me hesitant to even want to hoist the sails for lack of wind. I have yet to sail without ballast though. I have seen others doing it during those pitifull lack of wind days though and under those circumstances it may be safe to try it out. Even under the most favorable conditions it is a risky venture as the boat is no where near as stable. I would be quite hesitant doing it with an X but with an M (which I have) it may be a bit more feasible since the M comes with #300 of permanent ballast at the base of the daggerboard. If I ever do attempt it I will only do it with two of us aboard and probably keep the engine lowered in the water. Most folks already have a fair amount of ballast in the form of supplies, equipment, tools and other extras in the holds not to mention batteries and gas/water tanks so there may be a safety margin there. I might also want to remain close to shorelines and maybe even have a buddy boat along on the first few trials. It is very likely doable but also risky.
If you were experiences, safe, and sober....
I have always thought it would be wild to try and sail a mac w/o ballast and rig a trapeze!
I have always thought it would be wild to try and sail a mac w/o ballast and rig a trapeze!
trapeze on a mac?
Now Richard sounds adventurous like myself. I would love to try it. I can just picture a man hanging out of a mac26X on a trapeze. Wish you lived nearby., Richard. But I still would like to hear from someone who has DONE it, an under what conditions. And the result.
Now Richard sounds adventurous like myself. I would love to try it. I can just picture a man hanging out of a mac26X on a trapeze. Wish you lived nearby., Richard. But I still would like to hear from someone who has DONE it, an under what conditions. And the result.
I have!!!
Okay For you "Who Have done it folks?" I have done itr many times. I have had my boat since I bought it new in '98. I regularly sail it in winds up to about 15mph. I have a wind meter mounted on top of the mast to tell me the wind speed. It is not dangerous. The boat will round up when the rudders leave the water. I had a new couple come out and take a ride on the boat. The lady was concerned that the boat was healing over quite a bit while I was showing her husband things down below. I told her to let it blow over one time and she was surprised to see that it just rounded up and came back upright. I know there are a bunch of you that will never do it but that is your decision. I have been there and done it enough to know that it is not what everyone puts it out to be as. Have fun and take a chance sometime in "your" controlled conditions. Tony
Okay For you "Who Have done it folks?" I have done itr many times. I have had my boat since I bought it new in '98. I regularly sail it in winds up to about 15mph. I have a wind meter mounted on top of the mast to tell me the wind speed. It is not dangerous. The boat will round up when the rudders leave the water. I had a new couple come out and take a ride on the boat. The lady was concerned that the boat was healing over quite a bit while I was showing her husband things down below. I told her to let it blow over one time and she was surprised to see that it just rounded up and came back upright. I know there are a bunch of you that will never do it but that is your decision. I have been there and done it enough to know that it is not what everyone puts it out to be as. Have fun and take a chance sometime in "your" controlled conditions. Tony
How much and which way
I'm going to try it tomorrow now that someone has actually said that they've done it. I really hope you weren't joking. How much sail ( just main, full genoa?) upwind, beam or broad reach, or does it matter? I have a tacktick wind monitor with winds of 5 to 10. Will be singlehanded but have five years on my little lake.
I'm going to try it tomorrow now that someone has actually said that they've done it. I really hope you weren't joking. How much sail ( just main, full genoa?) upwind, beam or broad reach, or does it matter? I have a tacktick wind monitor with winds of 5 to 10. Will be singlehanded but have five years on my little lake.
just tried it
I took an evening sail this evening. No windometer, but a nice, roughly 10mph breeze. Ballast was drained. Wifey and myself. Being cautious, I let out the furler only about 75%. Sailed nicely! Then let it all out. No problem at all. Main was not put up. (because the sun was going down and I was lazy and ready to fire up the grill for supper). Real glad I tried it. Barely inclined 5 degrees. Have to go on road trip for a week, and then am anxious to do more. And was basically sailing on a beam reach and upwind. No downwinder.
I took an evening sail this evening. No windometer, but a nice, roughly 10mph breeze. Ballast was drained. Wifey and myself. Being cautious, I let out the furler only about 75%. Sailed nicely! Then let it all out. No problem at all. Main was not put up. (because the sun was going down and I was lazy and ready to fire up the grill for supper). Real glad I tried it. Barely inclined 5 degrees. Have to go on road trip for a week, and then am anxious to do more. And was basically sailing on a beam reach and upwind. No downwinder.
Why?
I am not being sarcastic or snotty in anyway, but I just don't know why you would want to sail her like that. One designs or some other small sailing boats sure, I learned to sail on small unballasted centerboard boats, but a 26 footer with a lot of sail area? Maybe I am just a strict traditionalist, I sail a 78 Venture 25 and a Nordica 16, occasionally an Allied Princess 36, and I always believed that bigger sailboats should have a ballasted keel. Even my little N16 has a full keel. Your Mac, when used as a power boat under planing conditions, I can see the advantage, but I don't see it under sail. Just for a little thrill? You can certainly get your Mac to heel and put the rail in the water with the ballast onboard. Don't get me wrong, I too enjoy a thrilling sail with a well heeled boat and salt spray in my face. 15-20 knot winds are alot of fun to to sail in. What would the actual benefit be to make you override the risk? In my opinion the risk is simple, boats are slower to respond when ballasted and therefore allow you time to gain control or change trim, thus preventing problems. Without the ballast it would seem to me that she would be VERY tender and likely to blow over BEFORE you could spill any wind. Capt. K said--"Most folks already have a fair amount of ballast in the form of supplies, equipment, tools and other extras in the holds not to mention batteries and gas/water tanks so there may be a safety margin there." Movable items such as these can't be relied upon as ballast. When heeled these things can and WILL likely move, plus under a capsize or near situation these things will cause more problems by shifting and adding to the top heavy situation very suddenly. Just my .02. I could be wrong.
I am not being sarcastic or snotty in anyway, but I just don't know why you would want to sail her like that. One designs or some other small sailing boats sure, I learned to sail on small unballasted centerboard boats, but a 26 footer with a lot of sail area? Maybe I am just a strict traditionalist, I sail a 78 Venture 25 and a Nordica 16, occasionally an Allied Princess 36, and I always believed that bigger sailboats should have a ballasted keel. Even my little N16 has a full keel. Your Mac, when used as a power boat under planing conditions, I can see the advantage, but I don't see it under sail. Just for a little thrill? You can certainly get your Mac to heel and put the rail in the water with the ballast onboard. Don't get me wrong, I too enjoy a thrilling sail with a well heeled boat and salt spray in my face. 15-20 knot winds are alot of fun to to sail in. What would the actual benefit be to make you override the risk? In my opinion the risk is simple, boats are slower to respond when ballasted and therefore allow you time to gain control or change trim, thus preventing problems. Without the ballast it would seem to me that she would be VERY tender and likely to blow over BEFORE you could spill any wind. Capt. K said--"Most folks already have a fair amount of ballast in the form of supplies, equipment, tools and other extras in the holds not to mention batteries and gas/water tanks so there may be a safety margin there." Movable items such as these can't be relied upon as ballast. When heeled these things can and WILL likely move, plus under a capsize or near situation these things will cause more problems by shifting and adding to the top heavy situation very suddenly. Just my .02. I could be wrong.
Be Scared
Sailed without ballast (at least to start) in 5-10 predicted wind. In those conditions the boat will move almost 2 knots, but most of the time will be less than 1. Very nice to take little naps but not real exciting. Started with double reefed main, moving 2 knots, shook out reefs, up to three, and then unfurled genoa to shrouds, and occasionally hit 4 knots in less than 10 knots of apparent wind on beam reaches. Boat accelerated very quickly with puffs, I kept the sheets loose, very little heeling, and I watched the water for gusts like my life depended on it. Gust came up to 16 knots, boat heeled 15 degrees, I got scared, headed up wind, released sheets and opened ballast. All in all I felt like I was watching for rogue waves off of cape horn. When similar conditions present itself (as in most of the time) I will do it again. Hopefully I will remain just as scared. (The boat is paid for).
Sailed without ballast (at least to start) in 5-10 predicted wind. In those conditions the boat will move almost 2 knots, but most of the time will be less than 1. Very nice to take little naps but not real exciting. Started with double reefed main, moving 2 knots, shook out reefs, up to three, and then unfurled genoa to shrouds, and occasionally hit 4 knots in less than 10 knots of apparent wind on beam reaches. Boat accelerated very quickly with puffs, I kept the sheets loose, very little heeling, and I watched the water for gusts like my life depended on it. Gust came up to 16 knots, boat heeled 15 degrees, I got scared, headed up wind, released sheets and opened ballast. All in all I felt like I was watching for rogue waves off of cape horn. When similar conditions present itself (as in most of the time) I will do it again. Hopefully I will remain just as scared. (The boat is paid for).
how would you????????
How would you right the boat if there is no water in the ballast compartment?? cobraearl
How would you right the boat if there is no water in the ballast compartment?? cobraearl
tipping point is???? 10 degrees? 15? or more?
I think the important note is wind speed, or how much heel will the boat take BEFORE tipping. kinda like flying a hull in a hobie.... except you will probably not be able to dump sail fast enough, or hike out when needed. of course its dangerous, and could lead many possible problems. so becareful!
I think the important note is wind speed, or how much heel will the boat take BEFORE tipping. kinda like flying a hull in a hobie.... except you will probably not be able to dump sail fast enough, or hike out when needed. of course its dangerous, and could lead many possible problems. so becareful!
I don't really see the point...
To me it would be like sailing my M25 with the keel winched all the way up. You lose directional stability and it changes your C of G, both of which are performance and safety issues. Good luck getting the boat back upright after a knock-down. There's a reason the water ballast is there.
To me it would be like sailing my M25 with the keel winched all the way up. You lose directional stability and it changes your C of G, both of which are performance and safety issues. Good luck getting the boat back upright after a knock-down. There's a reason the water ballast is there.
26 Caapize
There was a number of follow up articles to that capize where the children were killed. The tank was empty and the owner was jailed (he was also drunk).
There was a number of follow up articles to that capize where the children were killed. The tank was empty and the owner was jailed (he was also drunk).
capsized 26 was not sailing...
there were way too may people (on the bow/with booze...)on board to not have the water ballast in. This terrible incident had nothing to do with the qualities of the boat...but everything to do with the qualities of the captain.
there were way too may people (on the bow/with booze...)on board to not have the water ballast in. This terrible incident had nothing to do with the qualities of the boat...but everything to do with the qualities of the captain.
Let's not kid ourselves
There is a reason for everything in life, especially engineered designs. You wouldn't take a wing off your small plane to fly with less drag. Don't think about sailing with the ballast tank empty, I can't see any purpose in that. Matter of fact I suspect your insurance is void while doing this. I believe control will be lost and good puff could get someone hurt and or you could lose control. You know Murphy lives and this is just asking for trouble in my humble opinion. Steve P.
There is a reason for everything in life, especially engineered designs. You wouldn't take a wing off your small plane to fly with less drag. Don't think about sailing with the ballast tank empty, I can't see any purpose in that. Matter of fact I suspect your insurance is void while doing this. I believe control will be lost and good puff could get someone hurt and or you could lose control. You know Murphy lives and this is just asking for trouble in my humble opinion. Steve P.
quote from Mac sailboat booklet
A couple of thoughts. (1) Why do it? Many sailors have sailed smaller, more agile craft. I have windsurfed, catamaraned, Lazored, sunfished, etc.. Lighter usually means more responsive, hence,...more fun. If it can be improved on this boat safely, why not?! (2) QUOTE from Mac 26X booklet.."If the 1,400 lbs of water ballast is drained, the boat becomes an even faster sailboat. However, like most small sailboats or catamarans, without ballast it can be capsized if you are not watchful. For protected waters or when sailing near shore, the added speed can make for fun." and, "Unballasted, it is one of the wildest and potentially fastest sailboats around." Those quotes are from the the manufacturer, assuming the designer also.
A couple of thoughts. (1) Why do it? Many sailors have sailed smaller, more agile craft. I have windsurfed, catamaraned, Lazored, sunfished, etc.. Lighter usually means more responsive, hence,...more fun. If it can be improved on this boat safely, why not?! (2) QUOTE from Mac 26X booklet.."If the 1,400 lbs of water ballast is drained, the boat becomes an even faster sailboat. However, like most small sailboats or catamarans, without ballast it can be capsized if you are not watchful. For protected waters or when sailing near shore, the added speed can make for fun." and, "Unballasted, it is one of the wildest and potentially fastest sailboats around." Those quotes are from the the manufacturer, assuming the designer also.
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