removehtml]I was wondering if anyone has attempted to sail (especially a Classic Mac26) with an empty ballast tank? Last week I went sailing in VERY light air, and I was thinking if my boat was 1200 pounds lighter I may have gained a knot or more in speed. I realize the risk but there is SOME permanent ballast there, and if the wind picked up it wouldn't be hard to fill er up (not talking about a squall here). Has anyone done it? Is that how the classics win races? ; ) Yes I saw the story about the 26x motoring that capsized. Thanks for the feedback, I know I will get many warnings, specifically I want to know if anyone has tried it and what the results were. What if we had a "sub" ballast tank we could fill, with say 600 pounds of water for lighter air sailing? Just curious. Error: Error: expected [/URL], but found [/removehtml] instead[/removehtml]
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I also thought about this... Using the mac 26 S as a trawler.
I remember jumping in my mac when the ballast was empty (very tippy w my 210lb) but, I thought about taking the mast off and motoring without the ballast and mast. I have a 9.9 yamaha HT. I thought about using the mac as a trawler on windless hot summer days where it is exhasting to put up the mast. I might leave my mast on the driveway to save weight and time launhing in windless days. Will it plane a little? I figured the hull speed would change since the displacement/waterline would be less and lighter. Im looking to move 9-10 knots of improvment. Has anyone done it?
I remember jumping in my mac when the ballast was empty (very tippy w my 210lb) but, I thought about taking the mast off and motoring without the ballast and mast. I have a 9.9 yamaha HT. I thought about using the mac as a trawler on windless hot summer days where it is exhasting to put up the mast. I might leave my mast on the driveway to save weight and time launhing in windless days. Will it plane a little? I figured the hull speed would change since the displacement/waterline would be less and lighter. Im looking to move 9-10 knots of improvment. Has anyone done it?
My $.02
Disconecting the shrouds and removing the mast from the boat is more work than raising the mast. As to sailing without ballast or with reduced ballast, I have had the weather change so fast that I didn't have time to reef. I would not have wanted to be caught in some of these situations without all 1200# of it. But I am a very cautious, "Be Prepared" ex boy scout type. I just hate the thought of having to be rescued. It would be even worse to have to be rescued and then try to explain why you were sailing without the ballast.
Disconecting the shrouds and removing the mast from the boat is more work than raising the mast. As to sailing without ballast or with reduced ballast, I have had the weather change so fast that I didn't have time to reef. I would not have wanted to be caught in some of these situations without all 1200# of it. But I am a very cautious, "Be Prepared" ex boy scout type. I just hate the thought of having to be rescued. It would be even worse to have to be rescued and then try to explain why you were sailing without the ballast.
rescued
John, You know how cold it is in Yellowstone Lake. If you're swamped in the middle, you need a rescue. My apologies to Arabella. My take on this thread is doing nothing to add to the knowledge that you are hoping to find. And despite what I said in the above post, I find the idea of a 600# ballest tank for light air an interesting idea. I will be looking forward to reading other posts on the subject.
John, You know how cold it is in Yellowstone Lake. If you're swamped in the middle, you need a rescue. My apologies to Arabella. My take on this thread is doing nothing to add to the knowledge that you are hoping to find. And despite what I said in the above post, I find the idea of a 600# ballest tank for light air an interesting idea. I will be looking forward to reading other posts on the subject.
26 X
I tried our 26x without water ballast in light air. It may not be a good comparison because we have tons of junk in her. Anyway, she sailed just like full ballast only faster. By faster I mean speed and reaction. She sailed well but healed quickly to 20 degrees and went to 25 occasionally. This is normal for an X in higher winds with ballast. I figured that was safe so continued for quite a while. We do have the luxury of the 50 hp iron wind to overcome rising winds if things start to turn bad. It didn't for us but when we got 5 miles offshore, I did put in ballast.
I tried our 26x without water ballast in light air. It may not be a good comparison because we have tons of junk in her. Anyway, she sailed just like full ballast only faster. By faster I mean speed and reaction. She sailed well but healed quickly to 20 degrees and went to 25 occasionally. This is normal for an X in higher winds with ballast. I figured that was safe so continued for quite a while. We do have the luxury of the 50 hp iron wind to overcome rising winds if things start to turn bad. It didn't for us but when we got 5 miles offshore, I did put in ballast.
Turn turtle
The water balast on a 26S is part of the righting force of the design. If the boat turned turtle with an empty tank, there is nothing to right itself. With slime on the bottom, I don't think you can sit on the bottom to wait for SAR.
The water balast on a 26S is part of the righting force of the design. If the boat turned turtle with an empty tank, there is nothing to right itself. With slime on the bottom, I don't think you can sit on the bottom to wait for SAR.
Thank you
Thanks Alex, I was expecting warnings. I don't have any slime on my bottom, I'm a trailer sailer. : ) Still, I don't want to turtle, but I do know there is some permanent ballast in addition to the tank. Maybe I will do some testing at the dock myself on an empty tank if no one else has tried it. Then again, I'm not sure if I'm THAT curious. Still, thanks for your interest.
Thanks Alex, I was expecting warnings. I don't have any slime on my bottom, I'm a trailer sailer. : ) Still, I don't want to turtle, but I do know there is some permanent ballast in addition to the tank. Maybe I will do some testing at the dock myself on an empty tank if no one else has tried it. Then again, I'm not sure if I'm THAT curious. Still, thanks for your interest.
It depends
Yes, I regularly motor and sail without ballast in my X when wind is less than 5 knots forecast AND in my own assessment of local conditions. One can sail, not drift, in winds of two or three knots without ballast. However, local terrain and sea state is an important consideration. Hills, headlands, river mo uths, or buildings can funnel winds as can bridges sometimes to increase a local speed by a factor of two or three. One must be more mindful of the wake of very large vessels. When motoring, at least with a 50 hp, the motion of the boat is faster so turns need to be taken either more slowly (lower speed) or more gently (greater arc) to avoid umpleasant or dangerous heeling. ON the ocean, swells as well as seas should be read and accounted for. Anything more than a 1 ft. sea or a 3 foot swell I think calls for ballast to be on the safe side. Oc ourse one never puts in any less than full ballast under any conditions. IF in doubt ballast, just like if in doubt, reef.
Yes, I regularly motor and sail without ballast in my X when wind is less than 5 knots forecast AND in my own assessment of local conditions. One can sail, not drift, in winds of two or three knots without ballast. However, local terrain and sea state is an important consideration. Hills, headlands, river mo uths, or buildings can funnel winds as can bridges sometimes to increase a local speed by a factor of two or three. One must be more mindful of the wake of very large vessels. When motoring, at least with a 50 hp, the motion of the boat is faster so turns need to be taken either more slowly (lower speed) or more gently (greater arc) to avoid umpleasant or dangerous heeling. ON the ocean, swells as well as seas should be read and accounted for. Anything more than a 1 ft. sea or a 3 foot swell I think calls for ballast to be on the safe side. Oc ourse one never puts in any less than full ballast under any conditions. IF in doubt ballast, just like if in doubt, reef.
Sales literature says
For a 26X,"If the 1,400 lbs of water ballast is drained, the boat becomes an even faster sailboat. However, like most small sailboats or catamarans, without ballast it can be capsized if you are not watchful. For protected waters or when sailing near shore, the added speed can make for fun. Here are your sailing choices: (1) With the water ballast tank full and conservative sails, the 26 is an extremely stable sailboat, ideal for a beginner. (2) With the big Genoa jib or spinnaker, it is a conventional self righting sailboat with outstanding sailing speed. (3)Unballasted, it is one of the wildest and potentially fastest sailboats around." The sales literature for the 26 C makes no claims of this sort nor does the literature for the 26 M however the 26 M does have 300 pounds of permanent ballast. Hmmmmm, I wounder why? How many 26 X's had to capsized to learn this. My first boat had no ballast except the crew and it only weighed 400 pounds. A full crew of four weighed more than the boat! Crew position was extremely important to keep the the boat up-right. I've sailed my 26 M unballasted, but only down wind so far. The X and M boats can dump their ballast while motoring over 6 mph. Can this be done with a 26 C? How much time and distance does it take to drop the motor, dump the ballast, raise the motor and then continue on course? Is your crew willing and able to move when needed? I'm not trying to dis-courage you but only trying to give information that might help. Steve
For a 26X,"If the 1,400 lbs of water ballast is drained, the boat becomes an even faster sailboat. However, like most small sailboats or catamarans, without ballast it can be capsized if you are not watchful. For protected waters or when sailing near shore, the added speed can make for fun. Here are your sailing choices: (1) With the water ballast tank full and conservative sails, the 26 is an extremely stable sailboat, ideal for a beginner. (2) With the big Genoa jib or spinnaker, it is a conventional self righting sailboat with outstanding sailing speed. (3)Unballasted, it is one of the wildest and potentially fastest sailboats around." The sales literature for the 26 C makes no claims of this sort nor does the literature for the 26 M however the 26 M does have 300 pounds of permanent ballast. Hmmmmm, I wounder why? How many 26 X's had to capsized to learn this. My first boat had no ballast except the crew and it only weighed 400 pounds. A full crew of four weighed more than the boat! Crew position was extremely important to keep the the boat up-right. I've sailed my 26 M unballasted, but only down wind so far. The X and M boats can dump their ballast while motoring over 6 mph. Can this be done with a 26 C? How much time and distance does it take to drop the motor, dump the ballast, raise the motor and then continue on course? Is your crew willing and able to move when needed? I'm not trying to dis-courage you but only trying to give information that might help. Steve
Engine Ballast
I have not sailed my 26M without ballast yet, but I have motored with empty ballast. The M does have 300# of permanent ballast to help stability while motoring but one has to wonder what the engine and battery constitute. A 200# plus engine and a 35# battery (maybe two) not to mention water in the porta-pottie, or galley water and other drinking water, this adds up to additional ballast. That engine and battery sit pretty low, you are probably looking at over 500# of permanent ballast. As I said, I have not sailed without ballast yet, but I do plan to try it some day when conditions warrant it, for now I simply refuse to hoist the sails if winds are not strong enough to drive a fully ballasted boat above 2-3 knots. I may try it when I have a heavy crew for rail meat just to see what the performance gain is.
I have not sailed my 26M without ballast yet, but I have motored with empty ballast. The M does have 300# of permanent ballast to help stability while motoring but one has to wonder what the engine and battery constitute. A 200# plus engine and a 35# battery (maybe two) not to mention water in the porta-pottie, or galley water and other drinking water, this adds up to additional ballast. That engine and battery sit pretty low, you are probably looking at over 500# of permanent ballast. As I said, I have not sailed without ballast yet, but I do plan to try it some day when conditions warrant it, for now I simply refuse to hoist the sails if winds are not strong enough to drive a fully ballasted boat above 2-3 knots. I may try it when I have a heavy crew for rail meat just to see what the performance gain is.
classics
The 26D with no ballast in it is fairly tippy, as it has no permanent ballast. Also I have noticed that the water balast valve on the X is really far forward almost under the Vberth right? The water balast intake on the D is right under the cabin stairs and would not be lifted out of the water to drain by the 9.9hp that most of them carry.
The 26D with no ballast in it is fairly tippy, as it has no permanent ballast. Also I have noticed that the water balast valve on the X is really far forward almost under the Vberth right? The water balast intake on the D is right under the cabin stairs and would not be lifted out of the water to drain by the 9.9hp that most of them carry.
plumb in a pump?
while it would be 'cheating' I wonder if plumbing in a Hi volume Low pressure pump might give an advantage in light air. dumping SOME (not all) balast. or maybe... its been done, and nobody's talking???
while it would be 'cheating' I wonder if plumbing in a Hi volume Low pressure pump might give an advantage in light air. dumping SOME (not all) balast. or maybe... its been done, and nobody's talking???
Danger Will Robinson, Danger
Filling with partial ballast is about the most dangerous practice one could undertake. Imagine a half full tank sloshing over to the leeward side as the boat heeled and making it heel even moreso to the point of capsizing because the water weight would be concentrated on the leeward side. It is either full ballast or empty ballast but definitely not partial.
Filling with partial ballast is about the most dangerous practice one could undertake. Imagine a half full tank sloshing over to the leeward side as the boat heeled and making it heel even moreso to the point of capsizing because the water weight would be concentrated on the leeward side. It is either full ballast or empty ballast but definitely not partial.
Permanent Ballast
I agree with Jenni on this one. There is no permanent ballast on the 26C or X models, unless you define "permanent ballast" to include outboards, batteries, water, ect., as Capt. Kermie did in his post. I don't think that these items would act as effective ballast if the water ballast tank was empty. Think about it, you have a boyant air filled chamber on the bottom of the the boat, with heavy items above it. If the boat goes over, whats going to float to the top?
I agree with Jenni on this one. There is no permanent ballast on the 26C or X models, unless you define "permanent ballast" to include outboards, batteries, water, ect., as Capt. Kermie did in his post. I don't think that these items would act as effective ballast if the water ballast tank was empty. Think about it, you have a boyant air filled chamber on the bottom of the the boat, with heavy items above it. If the boat goes over, whats going to float to the top?
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