We were out on the Chesapeake on Friday in our 2003 H356 (furling main) and the true wind was getting up over 20 kts and gusting higher. We reefed the main about 1/4 and were still overpowered so we reefed the Genoa about the same. Boat was better behaved but became difficult to get into "the groove", i.e., she was a bit twitchy. Did we do things backwards? What is the best tactic for reefing a B%R rig in higher winds? BTW, at no time did we feel uncomfortable. However, it was a "job" to keep her headed in the desired direction. Our non-sailing guests were hanging on and assumed we knew what we were doing. I think we did but I also think that we need some "polishing".
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Reefing B & R Rig
I usually take the opposite approach. Although the power in the B & R rig is primarily in the main, reefing the headsail is my first step. If that does not solve the problem, I'll reef the main. Just one person's view but it works well for me.
I usually take the opposite approach. Although the power in the B & R rig is primarily in the main, reefing the headsail is my first step. If that does not solve the problem, I'll reef the main. Just one person's view but it works well for me.
When to reef more
. . . is sometimes cued by the inability of the boat to tack properly or maintain desired heading. Sometimes we have to use our Catalina 34 TR motor to control things during the reefing, main then jib, my preference ( to keep center of lift under control ). A good crew reefs both sails within a short time of each other! We have a 150 reefable jib and three reefing points on our main. One can also heave to establishing control when needing to reef more. A gusty wind makes a boat twichy and it is my belief that non sailing friends on board make one more aware of how perceptions of crew comfort drive sail management, sometimes, at the expense, of what the ship really needs to maintain course. When the decision to reef is made more than you think you need can be better, especially when you can read the pending weather.
. . . is sometimes cued by the inability of the boat to tack properly or maintain desired heading. Sometimes we have to use our Catalina 34 TR motor to control things during the reefing, main then jib, my preference ( to keep center of lift under control ). A good crew reefs both sails within a short time of each other! We have a 150 reefable jib and three reefing points on our main. One can also heave to establishing control when needing to reef more. A gusty wind makes a boat twichy and it is my belief that non sailing friends on board make one more aware of how perceptions of crew comfort drive sail management, sometimes, at the expense, of what the ship really needs to maintain course. When the decision to reef is made more than you think you need can be better, especially when you can read the pending weather.
more then just reefing
Hunters (mines a 37.5) sail great with 20-30 kts of wind. Reefing the main at 20 kts usually is all you need to do... the trick is the trimming of the main and headsail so that you are not overpowering the rig. 20-25 knots with gusts hirer I usually do a single reef in main and run it out while also deep reefing the genoa.... I have sailed in 35-40 kts with double reef and deep reef in genoa and the hunter sails great. Just get out into the heavier air and try the different things... have fun
Hunters (mines a 37.5) sail great with 20-30 kts of wind. Reefing the main at 20 kts usually is all you need to do... the trick is the trimming of the main and headsail so that you are not overpowering the rig. 20-25 knots with gusts hirer I usually do a single reef in main and run it out while also deep reefing the genoa.... I have sailed in 35-40 kts with double reef and deep reef in genoa and the hunter sails great. Just get out into the heavier air and try the different things... have fun
Someone once told me that I should GO OUT AND
PLAY with it, not based only on one sail, but MANY, so this is a GREAT excuse for you to go sailing more.
Really, just go out and try different combinations, and until you do you'll never know what works for YOU i different conditions (i.e., wind and waves - either swells or wind-waves).
PLAY with it, not based only on one sail, but MANY, so this is a GREAT excuse for you to go sailing more.
Really, just go out and try different combinations, and until you do you'll never know what works for YOU i different conditions (i.e., wind and waves - either swells or wind-waves).
Just a thought....
When I had my Catalina 30 and at the dock and the winds are already over 20K, I would put in my first reef while still tied up. Then lower the main again and secure it. Then when in the open, I would raise my main, which is now already reefed, then slowly let out the jenny on the roller furling. Its much easier to reef at the dock than out in the open. Now, with a ketch, its a whole different story. I dont even raise the main if its over 25K. Just the jib and mizzen do the trick. Tony B
When I had my Catalina 30 and at the dock and the winds are already over 20K, I would put in my first reef while still tied up. Then lower the main again and secure it. Then when in the open, I would raise my main, which is now already reefed, then slowly let out the jenny on the roller furling. Its much easier to reef at the dock than out in the open. Now, with a ketch, its a whole different story. I dont even raise the main if its over 25K. Just the jib and mizzen do the trick. Tony B
Reef main
I have the 2002 356 with in mast roller furling I tend to reef the main 1st. I find to much main over powers the boat and is harder to control in heavy winds The small hankerchief jib can usually be flown in almost any condition I was out this Saturday in 25+ knot winds, with higher gusts, using just the jib and did very well John
I have the 2002 356 with in mast roller furling I tend to reef the main 1st. I find to much main over powers the boat and is harder to control in heavy winds The small hankerchief jib can usually be flown in almost any condition I was out this Saturday in 25+ knot winds, with higher gusts, using just the jib and did very well John
On our 356
we reef earlier. Usually in 15-18 knots, which means apparents in the low twenties, I'm looking to reduce sail. The main goes first. If its just my wife and I, I'll take a pretty deep reef so that we can easily handle the boat and so that not everything flies all over. Normally, we sail upwind first on an afternoon or evening sail so even with the reef if its still blowing 15 18 we will be doing hull speed when we crack off to go home. I think the B&R rig has a tendency to head up when its windier so I don't mink having a reef in.
we reef earlier. Usually in 15-18 knots, which means apparents in the low twenties, I'm looking to reduce sail. The main goes first. If its just my wife and I, I'll take a pretty deep reef so that we can easily handle the boat and so that not everything flies all over. Normally, we sail upwind first on an afternoon or evening sail so even with the reef if its still blowing 15 18 we will be doing hull speed when we crack off to go home. I think the B&R rig has a tendency to head up when its windier so I don't mink having a reef in.
Variable winds
Steve one of the problems on Friday was the winds were variable. One minute blowing like stink, the next moment dropping way off as well as shifting all over the place. With conditions like that it makes it difficult to trim and meet all the conditions. Sometimes your just better off setting her up for the average and accepting it. If you have and experienced crew on board then you can trim for the puffs and lulls and see the results. Non sailing guests make it tough to work at it as they're either scared to death or in the way. Bottom line is Friday was the kind of day you go home and feel like you never had things right and that's most likely because you never did, due to the high variability in wind. It was fun though, wasn't it? Mike
Steve one of the problems on Friday was the winds were variable. One minute blowing like stink, the next moment dropping way off as well as shifting all over the place. With conditions like that it makes it difficult to trim and meet all the conditions. Sometimes your just better off setting her up for the average and accepting it. If you have and experienced crew on board then you can trim for the puffs and lulls and see the results. Non sailing guests make it tough to work at it as they're either scared to death or in the way. Bottom line is Friday was the kind of day you go home and feel like you never had things right and that's most likely because you never did, due to the high variability in wind. It was fun though, wasn't it? Mike
Watch your 'draft stripes' ... if you have them
A furling mainsail can have a problem ..... the maximum (relative amount of) draft gets 'larger' when you furl. The 'relative' amount of draft will generally become larger when you partly furl ... eg. the cord of the sail tends to become baggier even though you have furled ... this will generate a 'powered-up' shape. Generally (and including slab reefing) if the boat gets 'cranky' when reefed because of gusts, etc. you really need to 'play' the traveller: dropping the traveller in the gusts and hauling in the traveller in the relative 'lows'. You 'play' the traveller in-and-out versus the amount of boat heel, adjusting the traveller to keep a constant angle of heel. Notice the amount of weather helm you get when reefed and in gusts. If you are noticing a momentary noticeable increase of weather helm (that you feel) during a gust then its time to 'play' the traveller. Leave the mainsheet cleated, and simply 'play' the traveller ... will reduce the 'crankiness', keep the boat at a constant angle of heel, keeps the boat at constant speed, keeps the helm pressure more or less constant, ..... as you 'blade-out' the mainsail.
A furling mainsail can have a problem ..... the maximum (relative amount of) draft gets 'larger' when you furl. The 'relative' amount of draft will generally become larger when you partly furl ... eg. the cord of the sail tends to become baggier even though you have furled ... this will generate a 'powered-up' shape. Generally (and including slab reefing) if the boat gets 'cranky' when reefed because of gusts, etc. you really need to 'play' the traveller: dropping the traveller in the gusts and hauling in the traveller in the relative 'lows'. You 'play' the traveller in-and-out versus the amount of boat heel, adjusting the traveller to keep a constant angle of heel. Notice the amount of weather helm you get when reefed and in gusts. If you are noticing a momentary noticeable increase of weather helm (that you feel) during a gust then its time to 'play' the traveller. Leave the mainsheet cleated, and simply 'play' the traveller ... will reduce the 'crankiness', keep the boat at a constant angle of heel, keeps the boat at constant speed, keeps the helm pressure more or less constant, ..... as you 'blade-out' the mainsail.
Main First
Reef the main first. Bring it in until the boat is standing up, like 20 degrees heeled. It's probably a bigger reef than you first think. This is not a boat that sails well on its ear. It should balance up very nicely with a large reef in the main and full jib, in the winds you described. As someone else suggested, you can start by bringing the jib all the way in and going mainsail only, but handling to windward will suffer, and you could find you'll be making a lot of leeway. You'd probably also have a lot of weather helm, and you still have that big main up if a gust hits. I'd much rather reef the main and sail the boat nice and balanced, on its lines.
Reef the main first. Bring it in until the boat is standing up, like 20 degrees heeled. It's probably a bigger reef than you first think. This is not a boat that sails well on its ear. It should balance up very nicely with a large reef in the main and full jib, in the winds you described. As someone else suggested, you can start by bringing the jib all the way in and going mainsail only, but handling to windward will suffer, and you could find you'll be making a lot of leeway. You'd probably also have a lot of weather helm, and you still have that big main up if a gust hits. I'd much rather reef the main and sail the boat nice and balanced, on its lines.
Reef main first than jib if needed
Hey Steve, we too have a 03 356 in the chesapeake. I've found that reefing the main first is teh way to go. If the conditions call for it, we have sailed under jib alone. If we have both out and things get heavier, we typically pull inthe main about 1/3 and see what happens. If I still have a lit of weather helm, I typically pull the main in some more (to about 1/2) and roll of teh job some. The jib rolled up is horrible because it has no shape at that point, hence I wait until I have to to roll it in. I also use the traveler alot to handle the puffs.
Hey Steve, we too have a 03 356 in the chesapeake. I've found that reefing the main first is teh way to go. If the conditions call for it, we have sailed under jib alone. If we have both out and things get heavier, we typically pull inthe main about 1/3 and see what happens. If I still have a lit of weather helm, I typically pull the main in some more (to about 1/2) and roll of teh job some. The jib rolled up is horrible because it has no shape at that point, hence I wait until I have to to roll it in. I also use the traveler alot to handle the puffs.
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