sailing to windward - no-sail angle

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DaveC426913

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May 9, 2011
10
Mac MAc26X n/a
I understand that Mac 26s leave something to be desired when sailing to windward. (I also understand that Mac owners may tend to be protective of Macs ;)), but I'd like the straight poop.

What - in your opinion/experience - is the typical no-sail angle of a Mac compared to other boats? (I understand that a 90 degree no-sail zone is pretty typical of sailboats but can range from 60 to 100.)
 
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doehunter

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Sep 26, 2010
808
Macgregor 1993 26S Houston
Not sure I understand. If you have a 90 deg no sail angle, does that mean 45 deg to wind is the best you can do? I'm not sure about mine but it feels a lot better than that. Of course the apparent wind tends to make it feel like you are going a lot higher than you really are.
I would assume that the angles would be different for individual boats, do to sail condition, sail shape, etc.
Also I think you can't expect the little swing keel on our boats to generate as much lift as a big thick fixed keel, so they aren't going to point like those boats. But then those guys can't beach theirs either!
I used a public ramp yesterday, and I believe the water was less than 3 ft in places between the ramp and the channel. No problem for me. A J boat couldn't even get off the trailer!
Jim
 
MrBill_FLL

MrBill_FLL

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May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
When you are asking about a 26s, are you really asking about a 26X? (your sig)

my 26D (classic) points rather well, but and from the windex on my mast, I can point just slightly more that 45degrees to weather (apparent wind)

I doubt the X models point as high with their hull design.

normally 45 degrees is the standard. -but you know that...

what are we comparing a 26S to? a J24? or a catalina 25?
 
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Robspan

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Apr 30, 2006
610
Macgregor 26s Kemah, TX
I see you have an M26X. Was your question addressed to M26's in general or to the M26s, as opposed to the 26D, 26X or the 26M?

If to the former, I'd start off by saying that if I wanted to get to the windward mark faster than anyone else in boats of 26 feet or less, I'd probably be sailing a J24 or something like that. With that said, I think my 26s points pretty well in light to moderate air with the stock fairleads. I'd estimate something like 110 degrees, give or take, from tack to tack.
If I wanted to lessen the angle, I'd get tracks and a barber haul, take off the roller furling, have turnbuckles on the side and backstays, and get that headstay tight. I'd also recruit some movable ballast for high side weight in a breeze. I'm sure I forgot a lot of things.
But that's not why I got the boat. If I need to get upwind in a hurry, I hit the button on the iron spinnaker.
 
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doehunter

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Sep 26, 2010
808
Macgregor 1993 26S Houston
Robspan said:
I see you have an M26X. Was your question addressed to M26's in general or to the M26s, as opposed to the 26D, 26X or the 26M?

If to the former, I'd start off by saying that if I wanted to get to the windward mark faster than anyone else in boats of 26 feet or less, I'd probably be sailing a J24 or something like that. With that said, I think my 26s points pretty well in light to moderate air with the stock fairleads. I'd estimate something like 110 degrees, give or take, from tack to tack.
If I wanted to lessen the angle, I'd get tracks and a barber haul, take off the roller furling, have turnbuckles on the side and backstays, and get that headstay tight. I'd also recruit some movable ballast for high side weight in a breeze. I'm sure I forgot a lot of things.
But that's not why I got the boat. If I need to get upwind in a hurry, I hit the button on the iron spinnaker.
Click to expand
How do you rig the sheets?
At first I rigged my jib to the forward fairleads and then inside the shrouds.
That didn't work on the genoa, so I rigged it on the outside of the shrouds, and only to the aft fairleads. Then I just started rigging my jib the same way.
 
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Mike B1026

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Jun 17, 2007
402
MacGregor Mac26S Victoria Tx
The jib runs through the forward fairleads. The genoa runs through the rear ones, on the cabin's top, outside the shrouds.

I have a roller furling and run those through the rear fairleads, although it should point better running through the forward ones, when rolled up to the size of a jib. Since I'm a cruiser, I'm not that worried about it.
 
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Robspan

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Apr 30, 2006
610
Macgregor 26s Kemah, TX
What Mike said. Jim, it sounds like you're doing it the way I would. I would only run the jib sheets to the outboard eyes if I were going downwind.
 
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Faris

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Apr 20, 2011
232
Catalina 27 San Juan Islands
I have no experience with the 26, only the 22, and you can't really say anything about the 26 based on that. But, I asked the previous owner about windward performance. He said that it wasn't great but that he could point about 50 degrees off the wind. I didn't really get to test that since there were no winds to speak of. However, the next day, I was messing about in the cabin and noticed that the keel was almost all the way up.

The previous owner commented that he didn't know how well the winch worked because he had never used it.

I put the keel down and sailed it that day in 10-15 kts. Pointed great!
 
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DaveC426913

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May 9, 2011
10
Mac MAc26X n/a
MrBill_FLL said:
When you are asking about a 26s, are you really asking about a 26X? (your sig)
Click to expand
Sorry, I meant 26's. i.e. all the motorsailors.

I'm comparing them to all boats in general of similar size. I'm not looking for racing performance here, I'm just a sailor who doesn't want to have to start the engine (the iron spinnaker :D) every time I want to go upwind.

(My last boat had an atrocious no-sail zone of about 160 degrees! :eek:)


Macs are great for what they are; I'm trying to figure out what liabilities I'm in for.
 
Justin_NSA

Justin_NSA

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Jul 7, 2004
8,481
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
DaveC426913 said:
(My last boat had an atrocious no-sail zone of about 160 degrees! :eek:)
Click to expand
I am assuming that is 80 degrees each side of the wind. If that were the case you could never sail upwind. What did you have, an old square-sailed rig?;)
 
MrBill_FLL

MrBill_FLL

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May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
DaveC426913 said:
Sorry, I meant 26's. i.e. all the motorsailors.
Click to expand
AGAIN: PLEASE CLARIFY YOUR QUESTION!!!

I, and many others' here have macgregor 26' boats that are NOT motor sailors. basically boats built before 1994 (IIRC).

boats built after 1995 were motorsailors, and I don't think they point (go to weather very well). ( the last generation seems to do better).

the classic boats, pre 1994 do go to weather quite well, and are pretty seaworthy boats.



*you may want to ask more powersailor owners at the macgregor-sailor.com site...

(NOTE: sticky top of page:
http://forums.macgregor.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=103649)
 
timebandit

timebandit

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Jun 3, 2004
1,863
Macgregor 25 So. Cal.
What was your last boat and the condition of the sails?

You might want to check the internet for hints on sail trim.

DaveC426913 said:
Sorry, I meant 26's. i.e. all the motorsailors.

I'm comparing them to all boats in general of similar size. I'm not looking for racing performance here, I'm just a sailor who doesn't want to have to start the engine (the iron spinnaker :D) every time I want to go upwind.

(My last boat had an atrocious no-sail zone of about 160 degrees! :eek:)


Macs are great for what they are; I'm trying to figure out what liabilities I'm in for.
Click to expand
 
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DaveC426913

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May 9, 2011
10
Mac MAc26X n/a
Justin_NSA said:
I am assuming that is 80 degrees each side of the wind. If that were the case you could never sail upwind. What did you have, an old square-sailed rig?;)
Click to expand
Yeah.

It seemed to do OK on a Close Haul yet when I checked my GPS, it was showing virtually no way-made-good. (i.e. each tack was about 160 degrees). These two factors would suggest she was pointing OK but there was a lot of drift to leeward (I forget the term).

It was a 40-year-old boat. A combination of old sails (I think they may have been the originals :eek:) and an inexperienced skipper. Also, she was flat-bottomed like a canoe, and six axe-handles wide (resulting her jib fairleads being way too far out to give good sail shape). She also had a drop keel with a bulb.

But that's not what this is about! You're getting me all distracted.
 
oreana123

oreana123

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Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
a drop keel with a bulb? sounds like a drug abuser or a troll.
let's see: joined in

may 2011
 
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