So far this has been a great start to the season. My 2005 H33 seems very happy to heel 22-25 degrees just as things start flying around in the salon. What do Hunter owners feel is a good heel without too much stress on the (fractional) rig?
Been there, done that. Actually, our boat, a mast head rig, under full sail has seen 30 plus degree heels and seems quite happy about it. When the rail hits the water at around 45 degrees, in upper twenty winds close hauled, that is when things really get exciting. Been there a few times over the years, but the admiral gets quite upset when we get anything close to 20 degrees. So this solo sailor waits until it is just him and the boat before enjoying times like that.
Be there, done that with the "Admiral" too.
Sporty sails are more reserved for when it is just myself and my 16 year old who likes to push it whenever he can. I find the boat ends up going another few degrees heel whenever he helms. We have a tight marina, so mostly it is 2 of us to handle the sport that is docking on those perfect wind days. I can't help but think your mast head rig with actual backstays would handle the stress better then the fractional rig.Actually, your boat will sail better to windward if you reduce the heel. As a boat heels more and more the keel and sails lose efficiency and the boat will sail a track with more leeway. It varies from boat to boat but I would suggest you experiment with less mains'l (reef) and pointing higher.
Stress on the rig is not a big concern in normal conditions (assuming the rig is in good condition).
The limiting factor (after the admiral and comfort) is reduced control due to the hull shape forcing the boat to turn upwind. As you heel over more and more, you'll find it harder and harder to keep the boat on course. This also results in reduced speed. Modern "flat" bottom boats seem like it best at 15 to 20 degrees. "Blue water", full keel, heavy displacement boats with the round "wine glass" shape like a bit more heel for best performance.
It's sometimes a lot of fun to be heeled over, water splashing over the side, so go for it when you want. If you want to be comfortable and fast, reef a bit.
The limiting factor (after the admiral and comfort) is reduced control due to the hull shape forcing the boat to turn upwind. As you heel over more and more, you'll find it harder and harder to keep the boat on course. This also results in reduced speed. Modern "flat" bottom boats seem like it best at 15 to 20 degrees. "Blue water", full keel, heavy displacement boats with the round "wine glass" shape like a bit more heel for best performance.
It's sometimes a lot of fun to be heeled over, water splashing over the side, so go for it when you want. If you want to be comfortable and fast, reef a bit.
15deg is a good starting point, the comments on leeway are spot on, as the boat heels more it naturally spills wind off the sails, which is a good thing. If you have GPS, try some short experiments on VMG and boat speed as compared to heel angle.
Also try some reefing options, you may find it is easier and more comfortable to sail with no loss in speed. It is exciting to get your heel on, just less efficient.
Also try some reefing options, you may find it is easier and more comfortable to sail with no loss in speed. It is exciting to get your heel on, just less efficient.
Flat is fast, ease and trim for conditions. 20 plus degrees of heel is just "bragging rights". Sounds cool but, not good sailing.
I sailed my old boat (Hunter 280) a bit hard from time to time. In this case, I was over-canvassed, but racing another boat home to the marina. Didn’t want to take the time to reef. Good thing the Admiral was not on board!
I asked the other boat to check my bottom paint ;-)
My current boat (1988 O’Day 322 ) stiffens up around 20 degrees.
Greg
I asked the other boat to check my bottom paint ;-)
My current boat (1988 O’Day 322 ) stiffens up around 20 degrees.
Greg
I did some quick and dirty tests close to beam reaching off fl coast a few months ago. In prob 20ish apparent and 3 foot seas with about 7-8 sec period. Def faster with around 15 deg. I was working on sail trim and found bigger speed difference with minor sail tweaks. My sails are done though which may have some affect also. Leech cupping bad for example
For me, it is not so much the speed, but keeping the boat from turning up into the wind. Plus, keeping the rudder straight and not using it as a brake while trying to keep the boat from turning up into the wind. Letting the sails out just a wee bit will straighten out the rudder, and to help prevent the boat from turning into the wind.
Did I make my point clear about not using the rudder as a break and fighting to keep the boat from turning into the wind? LOL
Did I make my point clear about not using the rudder as a break and fighting to keep the boat from turning into the wind? LOL
Depends on the boat. Consult your naval architect! Some boats were designed to go faster at steep heel angles, like the racing yachts of yore that were cheating the rules by having long overhangs that effectively lengthened the waterline length when heeled. Modern coastal cruisers, not so much; most are designed for pretty much upright sailing, and will go faster and more comfortably, and steer better, at less than 15º or so. So, reef, and trim to take out almost all of the weather helm (you want a little), and you'll go as fast as she can go.
In the OP the main looks pretty deep to me. Once you get to 15 Kts. the outhaul should be tight to reduce drag, and reduce power which translates to more heel and less speed. Racing boats get away with carrying too much sail because they can usually put beef on the rail to flatten the boat. If Brian D didn't make it clear, the rudder is a brake in the condition of excess heel. "Let de bot walk, mon..."
Testing like this is a great way to find out what works best for each boat, based on its hull shape and sail configuration. (And a great excuse to go out sailing.) I’d be curious to know how the results on a beat would compare to the reaches. At 20kts apparent on a reach it should be pretty easy to stay close to hull speed, and it’s easy to compensate for leeway by just pointing higher. So your testing probably showed the best configuration to ride through the waves and accelerate in those conditions, but not necessarily the best all-around. On a beat leeway is lost distance and it’s harder to maintain hull speed, so the optimal configuration might look different.
I would suspect that at hull speed, the windward side of the keel would exhibit low pressure thus giving lift which I would think would negate leeway. If the boat is moving slower in the water leeway would be the rule, but at hull speed, there really should be little leeway. Not completely gone, but minimal.
JMHO
JMHO
I know sailing well-trimmed, without too much weather helm is prefered…as @Brian D says…not having the rudder as a brake…
But, if I am making hull speed in a stiff breeze, does it really matter?
I am guilty of being a lazy sailor, and often not properly trimmed…but if I am making hull speed, I usually don’t care.m
Greg
But, if I am making hull speed in a stiff breeze, does it really matter?
I am guilty of being a lazy sailor, and often not properly trimmed…but if I am making hull speed, I usually don’t care.m
Greg