I've been checking out some the recent posts to this forum concerning lightning protection during thunderstorms. While this topic seems to generate a lot of opinions I don't see a lot of discussion about sailing tactics in squalls or thunderstorms. Assuming that it's not possible to head into the dock when a storm comes up (which can happen quickly in Florida), what are the best tactics to use for a small water ballast boat like a H240? Is anchoring a good option to ride out a squall? What size, type anchor is recommended and how much rode? Tony
- Status
Rough ride
I haven't run into this yet with this boat but on my old Cat 22 , I ran into a fair amount of very bad weather. Generally I'll just head for the mooring but on a few occasions Ive been more than 3+ hours from home so I double reefed main canned the jib and tried to quarter the waves as much as the wind allowed. This is one reason I love the H22 so much , all that extra ballast!!
I haven't run into this yet with this boat but on my old Cat 22 , I ran into a fair amount of very bad weather. Generally I'll just head for the mooring but on a few occasions Ive been more than 3+ hours from home so I double reefed main canned the jib and tried to quarter the waves as much as the wind allowed. This is one reason I love the H22 so much , all that extra ballast!!
Storm rider.
Tony, sudden summer thunderstorms are a fact of life in NC as well. It is not uncommon to have winds of 60 mph+ as the storm approaches and passes. My preferred tatic, providing I have sea room, is to drop all sail and motor into the wind. On a number of occasions, I have ridden out the storm at anchor (Fortress FX-7). I will typically let out twice as much rode as normal. The 240, like other Hunter models, does want to sail around the anchor. This can lead to some "uncomfortable" heeling due to the high freeboard during the worst of the storm but the boat handles it well. Mark Kissel Kittiwake/98H240
Tony, sudden summer thunderstorms are a fact of life in NC as well. It is not uncommon to have winds of 60 mph+ as the storm approaches and passes. My preferred tatic, providing I have sea room, is to drop all sail and motor into the wind. On a number of occasions, I have ridden out the storm at anchor (Fortress FX-7). I will typically let out twice as much rode as normal. The 240, like other Hunter models, does want to sail around the anchor. This can lead to some "uncomfortable" heeling due to the high freeboard during the worst of the storm but the boat handles it well. Mark Kissel Kittiwake/98H240
It depends....
If I can get behind something that will break the force of the wind and waves and the water is shallow enough, then anchoring with extra scope would be my first choice. If I am in open water, I will drop all sail (with the main reefed and ready to raise just in case the engine fails) and keep the bow into the wind using the motor. I also have a heavy wire braid grounding strap that is connected to the mast and shrouds and ends in a zinc, which goes over the side. Peter S/V Raven
If I can get behind something that will break the force of the wind and waves and the water is shallow enough, then anchoring with extra scope would be my first choice. If I am in open water, I will drop all sail (with the main reefed and ready to raise just in case the engine fails) and keep the bow into the wind using the motor. I also have a heavy wire braid grounding strap that is connected to the mast and shrouds and ends in a zinc, which goes over the side. Peter S/V Raven
Insulated or grounded?
When folks talk about connecting cables, or what have you, to their masts and tossing them in the water for lightning protection, I have to wonder. Wouldn't it be preferable to be isolated from ground as much as possible to be less of a target as opposed to directly grounded? I have even considered lowering my mast during bad weather although I've never actually done it yet. What about putting one of those brush-like thingys on the top of the mast to disipate the charge? Any thoughts? Mark Kissel, aren't you kindofa lightning expert? I seem to remember you having knowledge in regards to that, what do you think? Thanks, BTW, too. Tom
When folks talk about connecting cables, or what have you, to their masts and tossing them in the water for lightning protection, I have to wonder. Wouldn't it be preferable to be isolated from ground as much as possible to be less of a target as opposed to directly grounded? I have even considered lowering my mast during bad weather although I've never actually done it yet. What about putting one of those brush-like thingys on the top of the mast to disipate the charge? Any thoughts? Mark Kissel, aren't you kindofa lightning expert? I seem to remember you having knowledge in regards to that, what do you think? Thanks, BTW, too. Tom
Lightning theory in layman's terms...
I have read most of the posts on this site regarding lightning with great interest, as I live in Florida (lightning capital of the world). I have also read just about everything else I could get my hands on, as I'd like to minimize any damage should the unthinkable occur. Here, in simplest terms, is what I have come to understand. Take it with a grain of salt, as I am neither a lightning specialist, meteorologist, nor an electrical engineer. Many experts agree that lightning strikes occur at points where there is a large difference in charge between a charged cloud (neg charge?) and a charged surface object (pos charge?). When the difference is too great, Momma Nature tries to balance things out a bit by releasing all that energy in the form of a lightning bolt. How do you protect yourself? The two most common methods I've seen are: --Reduce the difference in charge between your rig and the water. I seem to recall that the idea of attaching a large-diameter cable between your rigging and a grounding plate 'over the side' was about trying to _reduce_ the difference in ionic charge (pos or neg) between your rig, the atmosphere, and the water. See, as your mast/rigging passes through the air, it becomes positively (?) charged, in a manner similar to static electricity. As a whole, the water has a generally neutral (or even negative) charge, thus making a good place for a charge to dissipate (ground). With a big honkin' conductor plate over the side, your rig should bleed off any positive charge, and have about the same potential charge as the water (neutral to negative). The reduced positive charge makes your rig less attractive to lightning discharge. -- Install a "brush-type lightning arrestor" at the highest points of your rig (those with schooner/ketch rigs should have two). Again, as your rig passes through the air, it builds up a positive(?) charge (like static electricity). This charge can release itself into the surrounding atmosphere as a steady stream of ions, all from tip of your mast- a ready-made path for a lightning strike. The 'Brush' at the top provides several points for the ions to dissipate into the atmosphere, spreading them out a bit, _reducing_ the likelihood that your mast will be the target of a strike (in hopes that there's something else in the vicinity with higher potential energy?). Again, this is all just my understanding, and may be WAAAY off. Personally, I'm going for the first theory (create a bridge from the rig to the water). Hope this helps... --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind'
I have read most of the posts on this site regarding lightning with great interest, as I live in Florida (lightning capital of the world). I have also read just about everything else I could get my hands on, as I'd like to minimize any damage should the unthinkable occur. Here, in simplest terms, is what I have come to understand. Take it with a grain of salt, as I am neither a lightning specialist, meteorologist, nor an electrical engineer. Many experts agree that lightning strikes occur at points where there is a large difference in charge between a charged cloud (neg charge?) and a charged surface object (pos charge?). When the difference is too great, Momma Nature tries to balance things out a bit by releasing all that energy in the form of a lightning bolt. How do you protect yourself? The two most common methods I've seen are: --Reduce the difference in charge between your rig and the water. I seem to recall that the idea of attaching a large-diameter cable between your rigging and a grounding plate 'over the side' was about trying to _reduce_ the difference in ionic charge (pos or neg) between your rig, the atmosphere, and the water. See, as your mast/rigging passes through the air, it becomes positively (?) charged, in a manner similar to static electricity. As a whole, the water has a generally neutral (or even negative) charge, thus making a good place for a charge to dissipate (ground). With a big honkin' conductor plate over the side, your rig should bleed off any positive charge, and have about the same potential charge as the water (neutral to negative). The reduced positive charge makes your rig less attractive to lightning discharge. -- Install a "brush-type lightning arrestor" at the highest points of your rig (those with schooner/ketch rigs should have two). Again, as your rig passes through the air, it builds up a positive(?) charge (like static electricity). This charge can release itself into the surrounding atmosphere as a steady stream of ions, all from tip of your mast- a ready-made path for a lightning strike. The 'Brush' at the top provides several points for the ions to dissipate into the atmosphere, spreading them out a bit, _reducing_ the likelihood that your mast will be the target of a strike (in hopes that there's something else in the vicinity with higher potential energy?). Again, this is all just my understanding, and may be WAAAY off. Personally, I'm going for the first theory (create a bridge from the rig to the water). Hope this helps... --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind'
Lightning
Tom - The electrical potential (voltage) of a lightning bolt is so high, that it would be impossible to effectively isolate the boat from the water. The bolt is already jumping hundreds of feet through the air, it will have no problems jumping the extra couple feet from the isolated rigging to the water. Generally the goal is to provide a path that has very little resistance, thus minimizing the amount of jumping around the electricity does on the boat before it gets to water. Jon - I don't think you can do much to eliminate the charge build-up at the top of the mast by being well grounded to the water. Radio towers are extensively grounded to earth and yet still take hits frequently. Again the idea of a good ground it to give the electricity somewhere to go, rather than have it arcing all over the place. I believe the theory on charge at the top of the mast (or any pointed object) is that there is always a greater charge density around a point than a flat surface. The idea behind the brush type devices is to spread out the charge, creating a lesser charge density. In the world of communications towers there is great debate over whether or not this works. Most wireless providers do not use these devices on their towers, but that doesn't mean they don't work. Better safe than sorry? For safety sake, my focus would be on properly grounding the boat. In an earlier post, Bob Gravenstein said that his H26 took a strike and the bolt dissipated into the water via 4 points just above the water in the hull. I'm guessing that the bolt came down the mast and/or VHF coax. Once it got to the bottom it did not have an easy path to water so it had to arc from the compression post to hull (just a guess). This to me indicates that there is not a good ground path between the mast/compression post and the water. Can you imagine if someone had been in Bob's boat at the time of the strike. We all need to put our heads together and determine what we can do to avoid this danger. Sorry for the long post, but I don't believe we've ever come to any sound resolution on this important issue. Ron M s/v Hydro-Therapy
Tom - The electrical potential (voltage) of a lightning bolt is so high, that it would be impossible to effectively isolate the boat from the water. The bolt is already jumping hundreds of feet through the air, it will have no problems jumping the extra couple feet from the isolated rigging to the water. Generally the goal is to provide a path that has very little resistance, thus minimizing the amount of jumping around the electricity does on the boat before it gets to water. Jon - I don't think you can do much to eliminate the charge build-up at the top of the mast by being well grounded to the water. Radio towers are extensively grounded to earth and yet still take hits frequently. Again the idea of a good ground it to give the electricity somewhere to go, rather than have it arcing all over the place. I believe the theory on charge at the top of the mast (or any pointed object) is that there is always a greater charge density around a point than a flat surface. The idea behind the brush type devices is to spread out the charge, creating a lesser charge density. In the world of communications towers there is great debate over whether or not this works. Most wireless providers do not use these devices on their towers, but that doesn't mean they don't work. Better safe than sorry? For safety sake, my focus would be on properly grounding the boat. In an earlier post, Bob Gravenstein said that his H26 took a strike and the bolt dissipated into the water via 4 points just above the water in the hull. I'm guessing that the bolt came down the mast and/or VHF coax. Once it got to the bottom it did not have an easy path to water so it had to arc from the compression post to hull (just a guess). This to me indicates that there is not a good ground path between the mast/compression post and the water. Can you imagine if someone had been in Bob's boat at the time of the strike. We all need to put our heads together and determine what we can do to avoid this danger. Sorry for the long post, but I don't believe we've ever come to any sound resolution on this important issue. Ron M s/v Hydro-Therapy
Lightening theory = prayer
My theory of lightning living in So Fla is to pray it doesn't hit me. Joking aside, I would think that you'd want the lightning to go straight thru to your keel to be dissapated to ground (water). I would also think that if the lightning did go down the mast/complression post, it would naturally go straight to the keel as the quickest route to ground, as the compression post is close to the keel if not directly on it. If the keel is ground, it doesn't make sense the lightning would arc off the compression post and then bounce out thru the hull. My guess is what more likely what happens is that some or all of the lightning goes down the shrouds. Unless the shrouds are bonded to the keel, when the lightening hit the bottom of the shrouds, where can it go to get to the water? Right thru the hull. Thus, I believe one of the things you could do to make your boat more lightening resistant is to bond the ends of you rigging attachments (shrouds and stays) to the keel via thick cable, the theory being that if lightening travels down the shrouds, it will be directed to the water via your keel instead of thru your hull. I also think that is part of the theory of attaching cables to your shrouds and down to the water externally. That also provides an alternate path for electricity that travels down the shrouds. Assuming my analysis is right (I disclaim expertise also, tho' I think this is essentially what Nigel Calder says in his book "Boat Owners Mechanical and Electrical Manual" which you should buy if you don't have it) if would make sense to attach cables to both sides of the shrouds (and perhaps the back and for/headstay as well) to provide a path to ground.
My theory of lightning living in So Fla is to pray it doesn't hit me. Joking aside, I would think that you'd want the lightning to go straight thru to your keel to be dissapated to ground (water). I would also think that if the lightning did go down the mast/complression post, it would naturally go straight to the keel as the quickest route to ground, as the compression post is close to the keel if not directly on it. If the keel is ground, it doesn't make sense the lightning would arc off the compression post and then bounce out thru the hull. My guess is what more likely what happens is that some or all of the lightning goes down the shrouds. Unless the shrouds are bonded to the keel, when the lightening hit the bottom of the shrouds, where can it go to get to the water? Right thru the hull. Thus, I believe one of the things you could do to make your boat more lightening resistant is to bond the ends of you rigging attachments (shrouds and stays) to the keel via thick cable, the theory being that if lightening travels down the shrouds, it will be directed to the water via your keel instead of thru your hull. I also think that is part of the theory of attaching cables to your shrouds and down to the water externally. That also provides an alternate path for electricity that travels down the shrouds. Assuming my analysis is right (I disclaim expertise also, tho' I think this is essentially what Nigel Calder says in his book "Boat Owners Mechanical and Electrical Manual" which you should buy if you don't have it) if would make sense to attach cables to both sides of the shrouds (and perhaps the back and for/headstay as well) to provide a path to ground.
H240 Grounding path
Ron, I agree, I'd love to have some resolution on this dangerous issue; Unfortunately, I'm not sure anyone understands it well enough to provide the correct-for-everyone response. And you're right about the radio towers being hit; I hadn't considered that. Time to revise my theories a little... About the 240/260/H26 not having a good path from the compression post to the water- If memory serves, there is not a path with a good conductor between the compression post and the water. I'm not sure what material the swing keel is built out of, but unless it's a good conductor and connected to the compression post, then the base of the compression post is the end of the line for conductive materials... and an arc from there could be deadly. I'm also glad no one was aboard (or injured) when it happened. Bryan C., You may be right about the path down the shrouds, and I think that's what bonding the rigging, lifelines, stanchions, and any other metal hardware on deck is all about- If it's all connected together, and then to a good ground (the keel), then it should be a considerable factor in preventing that lightning strike from doing the worst possible damage. Hey, this thread was supposed to be about sailing tactics! HOW'd we get side-tracked? ;o) --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' (Avoiding lightning this week by having her mast down in the yard while the bottom gets painted! ;o)
Ron, I agree, I'd love to have some resolution on this dangerous issue; Unfortunately, I'm not sure anyone understands it well enough to provide the correct-for-everyone response. And you're right about the radio towers being hit; I hadn't considered that. Time to revise my theories a little... About the 240/260/H26 not having a good path from the compression post to the water- If memory serves, there is not a path with a good conductor between the compression post and the water. I'm not sure what material the swing keel is built out of, but unless it's a good conductor and connected to the compression post, then the base of the compression post is the end of the line for conductive materials... and an arc from there could be deadly. I'm also glad no one was aboard (or injured) when it happened. Bryan C., You may be right about the path down the shrouds, and I think that's what bonding the rigging, lifelines, stanchions, and any other metal hardware on deck is all about- If it's all connected together, and then to a good ground (the keel), then it should be a considerable factor in preventing that lightning strike from doing the worst possible damage. Hey, this thread was supposed to be about sailing tactics! HOW'd we get side-tracked? ;o) --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' (Avoiding lightning this week by having her mast down in the yard while the bottom gets painted! ;o)
Lightning continued
Another title for this message could be "Reasons to be Fearful, Part Two." (a little word play on the old Ian Dury and the Blockheads song) On a more serious note, I think we do have some good ideas starting to flow here. Let's not stop. The logical side of my brain says that hanging jumper cables or chain from the shrouds into the water won't work. Lightning likes straight or smoothly curved electrical paths and good strong connections between conductors. If you don't give it what it wants it jumps around. But the emotional side says hey, there might be something to that idea. Bottom line is it can't hurt, unless it gives you a false sense of security. I'm new to the H240/260/26 line, but I believe the keel (centerboard) is just fiberglass and thus doesn't provide a ground. I think Dave Condon once mentioned that the keel bolt is in the water, but is there any connection between the compression post and the bolt? On larger boats, all major metal parts are sometimes interconnected with gounding cables, which ultimately terminate in some sort of ground plate below the water or perhaps the keel itself. I don't know how you'd go about retrofitting our Hunters with such a grounding system. Any ideas? Ron M s/v Hydro-Therapy
Another title for this message could be "Reasons to be Fearful, Part Two." (a little word play on the old Ian Dury and the Blockheads song) On a more serious note, I think we do have some good ideas starting to flow here. Let's not stop. The logical side of my brain says that hanging jumper cables or chain from the shrouds into the water won't work. Lightning likes straight or smoothly curved electrical paths and good strong connections between conductors. If you don't give it what it wants it jumps around. But the emotional side says hey, there might be something to that idea. Bottom line is it can't hurt, unless it gives you a false sense of security. I'm new to the H240/260/26 line, but I believe the keel (centerboard) is just fiberglass and thus doesn't provide a ground. I think Dave Condon once mentioned that the keel bolt is in the water, but is there any connection between the compression post and the bolt? On larger boats, all major metal parts are sometimes interconnected with gounding cables, which ultimately terminate in some sort of ground plate below the water or perhaps the keel itself. I don't know how you'd go about retrofitting our Hunters with such a grounding system. Any ideas? Ron M s/v Hydro-Therapy
Grounding Cable
My 240 has a heavy grounding cable attached to the mast plate, what's that for? Isn't it to ground the mast? I be interested in what Hunter has to say about this subject. John
My 240 has a heavy grounding cable attached to the mast plate, what's that for? Isn't it to ground the mast? I be interested in what Hunter has to say about this subject. John
Lightning protectors sold here!
(Disclaimer: Yes, I am an electrical engineer...a forensic electrical engineer. And yes, I have been accused of being a lightning expert..."ex" for has been, "spurt" for drip under pressure...ok, I qualify. And no, I don't have the answers you seek. If you are killed by a lightning strike, please tell your relatives to sue Mother Nature, not me.) If I'm not mistaken, the 240, has a rather large gauge grounding conductor connected between the mast step and centerboard pivot bolt. Is this enough? The definitive answer is, "maybe". One factor to consider is the randomness of lightning discharges. It takes just the right conditions, the right charge build-up in the cloud, the right opposing charge build-up on the ground, the right place and the right time for a strike to initiate. That "right" place may be the oak tree in your backyard today, and the farmer's cow down the road tomorrow. Weather forecasters are getting better, but there's still no way to know when and where the right conditions will occur. The random nature of discharges makes it really difficult to tell what works and what doesn't. For example, suppose I sell each of you a large rubberband for $500 each. I tell you to fasten it to the masthead and your boat will be completely protected from lightning. The vast majority of you will likely go through your entire lifetime without a lightning strike. Voila! My lightning protectors work! Okay, for those few of you that do experience a strike, well...you get a refund. As I've often said, even though lightning may tend to defy our simple logic at times, it still follows the laws of physics. Period. Electricity is electricity regardless of whether Mother Nature generates it or your local utility company (of course, Ma Nature has a much larger generator). A lightning discharge WILL follow the path of least resistance to ground. Since we can't "see" resistance without a meter, it may not be apparent why it took a particular path. If lightning hits your mast...the mast, shrouds, stays, and any other metal attached will be elevated to the potential of the strike (typically 10-20 million volts or more). At that point, it must find a path to ground. That path may be through a wet deck and hull, through wet skin, or through a cable attached to the stays and dropped in the water. I'm not sure about you guys, but I'd like to make sure the skin path is not an option. The bottom line is, the better a path is created to ground, the better it will take that path. Grounding cables should have smooth curves because, as someone mentioned, the charge concentration per square inch of surface area is greater at sharp bends. I have seen radio towers bristling with ion dissipators, (the toilet brush looking things) often called air terminals, get struck by lightning. Why? Proximity! If you shuffle your feet on the carpet, point your finger at the door knob, and stand three feet away, nothing happens. But move your finger closer and closer and eventually, the static charge in your body will leap across the air gap between your finger and the knob. Your own personal lightning! Towers, trees, and masts are closer to the clouds and thus present a better target, distance-wise, for discharge. How do I protect my boat? I don't. I foolishly count on the randomness of Mother Nature. Anyone want to buy a rubberband? Mark Kissel Kittiwake/98H240
(Disclaimer: Yes, I am an electrical engineer...a forensic electrical engineer. And yes, I have been accused of being a lightning expert..."ex" for has been, "spurt" for drip under pressure...ok, I qualify. And no, I don't have the answers you seek. If you are killed by a lightning strike, please tell your relatives to sue Mother Nature, not me.) If I'm not mistaken, the 240, has a rather large gauge grounding conductor connected between the mast step and centerboard pivot bolt. Is this enough? The definitive answer is, "maybe". One factor to consider is the randomness of lightning discharges. It takes just the right conditions, the right charge build-up in the cloud, the right opposing charge build-up on the ground, the right place and the right time for a strike to initiate. That "right" place may be the oak tree in your backyard today, and the farmer's cow down the road tomorrow. Weather forecasters are getting better, but there's still no way to know when and where the right conditions will occur. The random nature of discharges makes it really difficult to tell what works and what doesn't. For example, suppose I sell each of you a large rubberband for $500 each. I tell you to fasten it to the masthead and your boat will be completely protected from lightning. The vast majority of you will likely go through your entire lifetime without a lightning strike. Voila! My lightning protectors work! Okay, for those few of you that do experience a strike, well...you get a refund. As I've often said, even though lightning may tend to defy our simple logic at times, it still follows the laws of physics. Period. Electricity is electricity regardless of whether Mother Nature generates it or your local utility company (of course, Ma Nature has a much larger generator). A lightning discharge WILL follow the path of least resistance to ground. Since we can't "see" resistance without a meter, it may not be apparent why it took a particular path. If lightning hits your mast...the mast, shrouds, stays, and any other metal attached will be elevated to the potential of the strike (typically 10-20 million volts or more). At that point, it must find a path to ground. That path may be through a wet deck and hull, through wet skin, or through a cable attached to the stays and dropped in the water. I'm not sure about you guys, but I'd like to make sure the skin path is not an option. The bottom line is, the better a path is created to ground, the better it will take that path. Grounding cables should have smooth curves because, as someone mentioned, the charge concentration per square inch of surface area is greater at sharp bends. I have seen radio towers bristling with ion dissipators, (the toilet brush looking things) often called air terminals, get struck by lightning. Why? Proximity! If you shuffle your feet on the carpet, point your finger at the door knob, and stand three feet away, nothing happens. But move your finger closer and closer and eventually, the static charge in your body will leap across the air gap between your finger and the knob. Your own personal lightning! Towers, trees, and masts are closer to the clouds and thus present a better target, distance-wise, for discharge. How do I protect my boat? I don't. I foolishly count on the randomness of Mother Nature. Anyone want to buy a rubberband? Mark Kissel Kittiwake/98H240
Safety in a lightning storm
Sounds like bonding the stays and mast to the keel (or some other ground) would be one of things that would be nice to have but no guarantee. I would think it would not be a good idea to be standing on the deck barefoot hanging on to the shrouds in a thunderstorm. Probably a good idea to have everyone stay away possibly conductive metal objects - i.e. mast, compression post, shroud terminals. The wheel is not in the most logical path but I would rely on lightning to do the logical thing. If you must steer, probably a good idea to wear rubber shoes and I have heard of folks who have those thick rubber electricians gloves for thunderstorm area. These things may help but I would imagine the safest place is below decks. As for sailing tactics (the original issue), if it's not obvious by now, get those sails down (or at least reefed) when you see those black clouds rolling in for a summer storm. Learned the lesson the hard way one summer day on my dad's 40 a few years back. In light winds, had full sails up when a roller came in. By the time we noticed the winds picking up, we couldn't get the jenny in (part of which I attributed to that damned continuous line furler I never liked). Wind kicked up to 40 knots and shredded the jenny.
Sounds like bonding the stays and mast to the keel (or some other ground) would be one of things that would be nice to have but no guarantee. I would think it would not be a good idea to be standing on the deck barefoot hanging on to the shrouds in a thunderstorm. Probably a good idea to have everyone stay away possibly conductive metal objects - i.e. mast, compression post, shroud terminals. The wheel is not in the most logical path but I would rely on lightning to do the logical thing. If you must steer, probably a good idea to wear rubber shoes and I have heard of folks who have those thick rubber electricians gloves for thunderstorm area. These things may help but I would imagine the safest place is below decks. As for sailing tactics (the original issue), if it's not obvious by now, get those sails down (or at least reefed) when you see those black clouds rolling in for a summer storm. Learned the lesson the hard way one summer day on my dad's 40 a few years back. In light winds, had full sails up when a roller came in. By the time we noticed the winds picking up, we couldn't get the jenny in (part of which I attributed to that damned continuous line furler I never liked). Wind kicked up to 40 knots and shredded the jenny.
OK Mark....
so I am kinda surprised you take no measures for lightning protection, you, of all people! Maybe that says something about, as you put it, the randomness of MaNature. That being the case, and if you, or others, would not recommend the cables in the water tactic, then maybe we should talk about other tactics/scenarios. I don't know, but the thought of being in the cabin for shelter and having a strike arc/bounce around the interior, personally scares the bejeebers out of me. I can just picture myself trying to do the Mexican hat dance around arcs of blazing electricity with little head room; then get my wife in there too? I need a bigger dance floor! Seriously though, if at anchor, maybe get in the dinghy, if you have one, and head for shore? Perhaps huddle in the farthest reaches of the aft/Vee berth away from as much metal as possible? What do you guys think you might do if and when it gets serious? Interesting string. I appologize for getting us off the original subject matter. safe sailing to all Tom M.
so I am kinda surprised you take no measures for lightning protection, you, of all people! Maybe that says something about, as you put it, the randomness of MaNature. That being the case, and if you, or others, would not recommend the cables in the water tactic, then maybe we should talk about other tactics/scenarios. I don't know, but the thought of being in the cabin for shelter and having a strike arc/bounce around the interior, personally scares the bejeebers out of me. I can just picture myself trying to do the Mexican hat dance around arcs of blazing electricity with little head room; then get my wife in there too? I need a bigger dance floor! Seriously though, if at anchor, maybe get in the dinghy, if you have one, and head for shore? Perhaps huddle in the farthest reaches of the aft/Vee berth away from as much metal as possible? What do you guys think you might do if and when it gets serious? Interesting string. I appologize for getting us off the original subject matter. safe sailing to all Tom M.
More on Lightning
Not sure I should admit to this or not, but back on the 10th, I got caught out in a squall...35 knots acc to Thomas Pt Light. It was scary. 1 - I have an 86 23, and sometimes wish it were a 22 as the 22 has a bunch more ballast. 2 - Does your main have 2-3 reefs ? If not, then you may as well take it down in anything over 25knots, and anchor or motor (I prefer). 3 - I think having a storm jib is good, and you could actually run downwind with only it, or bare poles, if you have the searoom. 4 - Since the squall I was in, I will run all my lines aft, plus run downhauls I think. That way, I can take down both sails from the cockpit, and haul them down so they stay down. I had to go up front and take both sails down at 35 knots - not fun. Then the jib started creeping back up so I went up front again. 5 - think about lazyjacks...they'll keep the main in place mostly. One concern I have is my outboard. Will it run with the engine cover on ? I think so. Reason is, it needs air to run, not seawater ! And if you're motoring , sometimes the engine comes close to being underwater. All this and I am confident next time I will be ready...maybe even fun WITHOUT lightning that is. A fully prepared boat may have clip on chain lines to drag from the shrouds ? They don't have to be bolted I don't think as the lightning will find it's way across a 1/16" gap, I'm sure of that. If they were rubber coated they would mess up the boat too much in the waves either. I always wondered, with the cost of new boats, why don't they have hydraulic masts, when the lightning comes, push a button, and down goes the mast !
Not sure I should admit to this or not, but back on the 10th, I got caught out in a squall...35 knots acc to Thomas Pt Light. It was scary. 1 - I have an 86 23, and sometimes wish it were a 22 as the 22 has a bunch more ballast. 2 - Does your main have 2-3 reefs ? If not, then you may as well take it down in anything over 25knots, and anchor or motor (I prefer). 3 - I think having a storm jib is good, and you could actually run downwind with only it, or bare poles, if you have the searoom. 4 - Since the squall I was in, I will run all my lines aft, plus run downhauls I think. That way, I can take down both sails from the cockpit, and haul them down so they stay down. I had to go up front and take both sails down at 35 knots - not fun. Then the jib started creeping back up so I went up front again. 5 - think about lazyjacks...they'll keep the main in place mostly. One concern I have is my outboard. Will it run with the engine cover on ? I think so. Reason is, it needs air to run, not seawater ! And if you're motoring , sometimes the engine comes close to being underwater. All this and I am confident next time I will be ready...maybe even fun WITHOUT lightning that is. A fully prepared boat may have clip on chain lines to drag from the shrouds ? They don't have to be bolted I don't think as the lightning will find it's way across a 1/16" gap, I'm sure of that. If they were rubber coated they would mess up the boat too much in the waves either. I always wondered, with the cost of new boats, why don't they have hydraulic masts, when the lightning comes, push a button, and down goes the mast !
metal tiller/wet skin/thunder storm
Didn't like that combination-replaced metal tiller last year on "96 h26 with a great looking wooden one and removed one part of the equation.
Didn't like that combination-replaced metal tiller last year on "96 h26 with a great looking wooden one and removed one part of the equation.
too much wind and electricity
I met a guy at the marina where I bought a 26 a while back. He got a great deal on a 270 without the inboard (yes I violated some commandment and coveted my nieghbors boat!). Anyway he showed me a large gauge wire bolted from the compression post to the keel. Retrofitting the 26 would certainly be appealing but what would be the best way? As far as getting caught out in too much wind, well tried to go out at 30+ knots once when I got back one of the dealers looked at me crosseyed. I was single handed and had the 8 horse power motor at 3/4 throttle. I was barely making headway and fighting the helm to stay into the wind. Having sailed the day before alone in 25 knot winds with the large single reef in, I didn't even try to raise the sail as even with that it was uncomfortable. Will probably get a second higher reef placed after the season.
I met a guy at the marina where I bought a 26 a while back. He got a great deal on a 270 without the inboard (yes I violated some commandment and coveted my nieghbors boat!). Anyway he showed me a large gauge wire bolted from the compression post to the keel. Retrofitting the 26 would certainly be appealing but what would be the best way? As far as getting caught out in too much wind, well tried to go out at 30+ knots once when I got back one of the dealers looked at me crosseyed. I was single handed and had the 8 horse power motor at 3/4 throttle. I was barely making headway and fighting the helm to stay into the wind. Having sailed the day before alone in 25 knot winds with the large single reef in, I didn't even try to raise the sail as even with that it was uncomfortable. Will probably get a second higher reef placed after the season.
grounding wire
I've got that braided wire connecting the compression post to the keel, but it seems to be connected only to the wooden compression post. What good is this doing.............or is there metal inside that post that it's bolted to?
I've got that braided wire connecting the compression post to the keel, but it seems to be connected only to the wooden compression post. What good is this doing.............or is there metal inside that post that it's bolted to?
Faraday Cage
Below is a discussion of a Faraday cage: http://www.tcmall.com/nauticalknowhow/tips.htm Years ago I was a ranger at Wind Cave National Park in So. Dakota. The fire towers are manned during hot dry months when there are horrendous lightning storms. Located on top of metal towers, there is a special seat that looks like a throne for the observer to sit in during lightning storms. It is totally insulated from the entire tower, the four corners of the chair sitting on four large glass balls. Kind of an electric chair in reverse
The strategy there was simply to insulate the observer from all metal. From this I have deduced part of my own strategy--during lightning storm touch metal as little as possible.
Below is a discussion of a Faraday cage: http://www.tcmall.com/nauticalknowhow/tips.htm Years ago I was a ranger at Wind Cave National Park in So. Dakota. The fire towers are manned during hot dry months when there are horrendous lightning storms. Located on top of metal towers, there is a special seat that looks like a throne for the observer to sit in during lightning storms. It is totally insulated from the entire tower, the four corners of the chair sitting on four large glass balls. Kind of an electric chair in reverse
The strategy there was simply to insulate the observer from all metal. From this I have deduced part of my own strategy--during lightning storm touch metal as little as possible.Monday, Wednesday, Faraday
That's interesting, Greg. Did you ever hear of anyone sitting on the "throne" when the tower was hit? Faraday cages will protect whatever is inside from external electrical forces. Your automobile, for example, is a pretty good Faraday cage. More importantly, something called the "skin effect" protects you in your car. Almost all of the electrical charge flowing through a metal is carried on its surface (skin). If you are inside of a metal cage, that means nearly all of the charge flows on the outside. So, even if you touched the metal inside your car at the moment it was struck by lightning, you would likely not be injured. Mark Kissel Kittiwake/98H240
That's interesting, Greg. Did you ever hear of anyone sitting on the "throne" when the tower was hit? Faraday cages will protect whatever is inside from external electrical forces. Your automobile, for example, is a pretty good Faraday cage. More importantly, something called the "skin effect" protects you in your car. Almost all of the electrical charge flowing through a metal is carried on its surface (skin). If you are inside of a metal cage, that means nearly all of the charge flows on the outside. So, even if you touched the metal inside your car at the moment it was struck by lightning, you would likely not be injured. Mark Kissel Kittiwake/98H240
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