I'm a new O'Day 25 owner with only modest experience sailing solo. My question relates to the choice of sails in heavy winds. A few days ago, I was sailing with my brother (an experienced sailor) out of Marblehead harbor. We sailed in with the jib and full main as the winds were picking up to about 20 knts. , we were healed over but under control. When we sailed out after a break, the wind had picked up more to about 25 knts. so we decided to put up only the jib. We were sailing close to the wind when it started to gust significantly and the boat got pushed off the wind and started to heal quite a bit. I tried to bring the boat into the wind to depower the sail but it couldn't come about because the wind kept pushing it away. It was quite nerve wracking as I felt like the boat was about to go over. We ended up dropping the sail and motoring in. My question is: is it normal for the boat to get pushed off like that with just the jib? Would we have been better off with jib (I don't have a storm jib) and a reefed main? Or even just the main? Also on a related note, I find that the few times that I sailed alone that if i take my hand off of the tiller to adjust a sail or for any other reason, the boat will start to go off course very quickly and i had a few times when the wind was just a little heavy when it again got a little hairy out there. Does that sound like a characteristic of the boat, or maybe my rigging is not tuned correctly, or maybe I should take up golf? I appreciate any feedback you may have.
Sailing in heavy winds
- Thread starter jsachetti
- Start date
- Status
- Jan 22, 2008
- 519
off course which way?
Weather helm is normal in a properly tuned jib and main set up. This means that letting go of the tiller, the boat should slowly round up into the wind and ...stall! If you solo, and fall overboard, this is a good thing... you can then swim to your boat and get back on, assuming you have a swim ladder deployed. Sailing with the jib alone will cause lee helm, when you let go the tiller, the boat rounds downwind, and continues sailing downwind... bad boat! (especially if you have fallen overboard) You did the right thing in this situation, by dropping the jib. Next time if you need to sail with only one sail, use the main, or even a reefed main. In this configuration, the boat will still round up into the wind and stall when you let go the tiller. Rounding up is a good technique for slowing down, regaining control, and reducing heel. You can do the same by letting out the mainsheet or moving the traveller to the lee side. They both have the effect of initially spilling the wind out of the sail, then eventually stalling the sail, and finally putting the boat in irons and stopping all forward motion.
Weather helm is normal in a properly tuned jib and main set up. This means that letting go of the tiller, the boat should slowly round up into the wind and ...stall! If you solo, and fall overboard, this is a good thing... you can then swim to your boat and get back on, assuming you have a swim ladder deployed. Sailing with the jib alone will cause lee helm, when you let go the tiller, the boat rounds downwind, and continues sailing downwind... bad boat! (especially if you have fallen overboard) You did the right thing in this situation, by dropping the jib. Next time if you need to sail with only one sail, use the main, or even a reefed main. In this configuration, the boat will still round up into the wind and stall when you let go the tiller. Rounding up is a good technique for slowing down, regaining control, and reducing heel. You can do the same by letting out the mainsheet or moving the traveller to the lee side. They both have the effect of initially spilling the wind out of the sail, then eventually stalling the sail, and finally putting the boat in irons and stopping all forward motion.
Thanks Roger
Roger, Thanks for the info, I'll keep it in mind next time in a similar situation and hopefully have better results and a more pleasurable experience.
Roger, Thanks for the info, I'll keep it in mind next time in a similar situation and hopefully have better results and a more pleasurable experience.
Reef early when sailing singlehanded
J - Roger is absolutely right about the main and weather helm. I know it sounds sissy but be a real man and reef early - there is a significant difference between Cautious and Reckless - Once the wind starts to pipe up and its looking interesting - its time to reef. Better to stay in control than be trying to drop sails as the wind builds to 25 and above - especially if you are single handed. You have a very capable boat and it will take good care of you but know your own limits and sail to have fun not white knuckle experiences. I strongly recomend that you learn to "Heave-to" this is a great manouever to learn so that when things are going to hell and you have too much sail up you can take a few minutes to collect your thoughts, put the lifevest on and plan the next action. This is especially true when you have crew on board who are not as familiar with the boat as you. Check the archives and you will find some interesting discussions on when to reef, sailing when the wind is building etc etc Welcome and enjoy the rest of this season. James
J - Roger is absolutely right about the main and weather helm. I know it sounds sissy but be a real man and reef early - there is a significant difference between Cautious and Reckless - Once the wind starts to pipe up and its looking interesting - its time to reef. Better to stay in control than be trying to drop sails as the wind builds to 25 and above - especially if you are single handed. You have a very capable boat and it will take good care of you but know your own limits and sail to have fun not white knuckle experiences. I strongly recomend that you learn to "Heave-to" this is a great manouever to learn so that when things are going to hell and you have too much sail up you can take a few minutes to collect your thoughts, put the lifevest on and plan the next action. This is especially true when you have crew on board who are not as familiar with the boat as you. Check the archives and you will find some interesting discussions on when to reef, sailing when the wind is building etc etc Welcome and enjoy the rest of this season. James
cautionary tale
I enjoy sailing solo in a good wind on my Mariner (Rhodes 19 with a keel). I have learned through experience (including broken toes from frantically leaping about trying to change sails underway in a blow) to be very conservative with the sail rig when I set out. If there are wind-caused waves I go with a full reefed main alone and let out a reef if it is prudent. I also wear a pfd if the wind is significantly strong. If the wind is moderate but might increase I will hoist the jib, but keep ties ready to secure the sail if I need to drop it. I found sailing with jib alone to be strange (as noted, you lose the weather helm which is your best friend when solo). I also learned to keep a swim ladder at the ready. I have a rope ladder rolled up and secured to an aft cleat that I can reach up and pull down. I actually had a very bad experience a few years ago that illustrates all of these factors: I was sailing solo on a strong wind without a pfd on (mistake #1) and rigged full main and jib (mistake #2). The wind picked up to the point that I was having trouble controlling the boat, so I decided to douse the jib. I lashed the tiller (mistake #3) and climbed onto the foredeck to drop and secure the jib. While I was crouched down trying to get the hank clips in order one of those lovely big white cabin cruisers flew past throwing a 4' wake(failure to maintain watch, mistake #4) I found myself suspended in the air overboard still holding the jib, which was still attached to the forestay. I performed the quick calculus that if I held onto the jib I would tear it and collide with the bow of the boat when it returned on the next wave, or that I could drop into the water and climb back on astern. I chose the latter and in I went. Because I had lashed the tiller and the main was cleated, the boat sailed on with me swimming after it. I managed to catch it, but how to get aboard? I had not rigged the swim ladder (mistake #5). I had recently read some old book about sailing (One Hand for the Ship, One Hand for Yourself, I think it was) and remembered that you could use the outboard motor to climb aboard. I was able to reach up and flip the lever to drop the outboard (9.9 hp Johnson). With some difficulty I was able to climb the motor and get back into the cockpit. I managed to cut my arm in the process. This all happened directly in front of Sewhanaka Yacht Club, one of the fanciest clubs in the area. If any of the swells at the bar had glanced up they would have had a good show. If I was not able to regain control of the boat they would have had a better show: a small sailboat careening through their mooring field! I had a stern talk with myself when I was safely back at my mooring. At home I went directly to my bookshelf and spent the next few days reading sailing books. I also checked to make sure that my boat insurance was up to date. Lessons learned: *when in doubt, reef the main before heading out *pfd on when you have the least concern *swim ladder rigged at all times underway *never lash the tiller underway heave-to instead, or pick up a vacant mooring *Do not sail on weekend afternoons if possible - that is prime time for big powerboats *be aware of all vessels within sight and avoid constricted passages *read as much as possible *it is very difficult to get blood stains out of a sail, and equally difficult to explain such stains to the wife. Have fun!
I enjoy sailing solo in a good wind on my Mariner (Rhodes 19 with a keel). I have learned through experience (including broken toes from frantically leaping about trying to change sails underway in a blow) to be very conservative with the sail rig when I set out. If there are wind-caused waves I go with a full reefed main alone and let out a reef if it is prudent. I also wear a pfd if the wind is significantly strong. If the wind is moderate but might increase I will hoist the jib, but keep ties ready to secure the sail if I need to drop it. I found sailing with jib alone to be strange (as noted, you lose the weather helm which is your best friend when solo). I also learned to keep a swim ladder at the ready. I have a rope ladder rolled up and secured to an aft cleat that I can reach up and pull down. I actually had a very bad experience a few years ago that illustrates all of these factors: I was sailing solo on a strong wind without a pfd on (mistake #1) and rigged full main and jib (mistake #2). The wind picked up to the point that I was having trouble controlling the boat, so I decided to douse the jib. I lashed the tiller (mistake #3) and climbed onto the foredeck to drop and secure the jib. While I was crouched down trying to get the hank clips in order one of those lovely big white cabin cruisers flew past throwing a 4' wake(failure to maintain watch, mistake #4) I found myself suspended in the air overboard still holding the jib, which was still attached to the forestay. I performed the quick calculus that if I held onto the jib I would tear it and collide with the bow of the boat when it returned on the next wave, or that I could drop into the water and climb back on astern. I chose the latter and in I went. Because I had lashed the tiller and the main was cleated, the boat sailed on with me swimming after it. I managed to catch it, but how to get aboard? I had not rigged the swim ladder (mistake #5). I had recently read some old book about sailing (One Hand for the Ship, One Hand for Yourself, I think it was) and remembered that you could use the outboard motor to climb aboard. I was able to reach up and flip the lever to drop the outboard (9.9 hp Johnson). With some difficulty I was able to climb the motor and get back into the cockpit. I managed to cut my arm in the process. This all happened directly in front of Sewhanaka Yacht Club, one of the fanciest clubs in the area. If any of the swells at the bar had glanced up they would have had a good show. If I was not able to regain control of the boat they would have had a better show: a small sailboat careening through their mooring field! I had a stern talk with myself when I was safely back at my mooring. At home I went directly to my bookshelf and spent the next few days reading sailing books. I also checked to make sure that my boat insurance was up to date. Lessons learned: *when in doubt, reef the main before heading out *pfd on when you have the least concern *swim ladder rigged at all times underway *never lash the tiller underway heave-to instead, or pick up a vacant mooring *Do not sail on weekend afternoons if possible - that is prime time for big powerboats *be aware of all vessels within sight and avoid constricted passages *read as much as possible *it is very difficult to get blood stains out of a sail, and equally difficult to explain such stains to the wife. Have fun!
Reduced sail on an O'Day 25
I too own an O'Day 25. You didn't mention what year it was, so I'm going to assume it's an older one (mine is a 1976 model). When I first got my boat, I experimented around with different configurations for reduced sail. I didn't know much, so I didn't know many different things to try, and eventually settled into three configurations: 1 Full sail - mainsail and 150 genoa 2 Reduced for light wind - 150 genoa only 3 Reduce for heavy wind - mainsail only Experience since then (I've had the boat 2 1/2 years, and sail a LOT) has shown that of the above setups, only the first is right, and that only part of the time. What follows is what I BELIEVE from experience. I could be mistaken about any of it, and if someone with more experience than me knows differently, or even BELIEVES differently, please feel free to correct me. My boat is designed with the jib sail as the main "engine". The main serves basically to stablize the boat. If you take the main down, the boat (as mentioned by others) tends to lee helm badly. It is also much less responsive to any attempts to bring it into the wind. As a side note, when I sail, I set the jib for what I believe to be optimum, and then set the main to best serve the jib (IE set to allow the jib full wind instead of "stealing" the jib's wind). This seems to work very well for us. When we take the jib down, and sail with only the main, the boat reacts to the rudder very poorly on all directions, but especially when the wind is abeam or on a run. The boat sideslips terribly, and is very unresponsive when turning. Some of the stitching on the Genoa came loose, so we were using the largely unused smaller jib (110) while it was being repaired. I was amazed at the difference. Gone were the 25-35 thrillin heels in the wind, but the boat pointed better, was more responsive and less tiring. I'm one of these kind of people that like to have everything working the way it was designed to work, and then start building my understanding of things after that. When I got my boat, I noticed the grommet holes in the main for reefing, but really didn't use them. The on time I tried to reef (early one), I just tying small ropes through them. Seemed a lot of trouble, and I didn't see much difference (at the time, I was only using the main, now "not making much difference" makes sense). I also noticed several blocks on the boom that weren't being used. I finally found that the O'Day 25 came equipped with a jiffy-reefing system. I did some some research, and found that all that was really missing on mine was a snatch block and some line. I got the jiffy reef system reinstalled, and learned to use it. One day in a sudden storm on our lake (that fortunately only lasted about 10 minutes), we had a really hard time getting the Genoa down. After that, I installed a downhaul. It's made a world of difference for my wife who usually drops sails, and me who is usually the one getting chewed out for not holding into the wind long enough, or losing my patience when she's taking too long. Now, she really likes me "helping" her pull the jib down. Now, to tie all that together, I learned a bunch of lessons that make my sailing experience better. I have two basic setups that I go with: 15 knots or less 150 genoa & main sail. I reef the main sail if I find myself having to regularly over compensate for weather helm. If that doesn't help, or if the winds pick up significantly, we drop the Genoa and put up the 110. The downhaul helps tremendously with dropping the jib. 15 knots or more 110 jib, and main sail reefed. We unreef if the winds let up, or we feel comfortable doing so. The only time I sail with only one sail (the main) is when we decide to sail into our marina slip instead of motoring. I do this because the prevailing winds usually are at our back and slightly from the port side, and it's blocked well enough to prevent any surprises. The one time I made the mistake of leaving it up all the way into the slip, when I turned into the slip, the boat kept sliding sideways. I didn't bang it up, but only because my brother was on board, and jumped on to the dock to push me over. Now, I power until right before I turn, have the wife quickly drop the sail, and coast in. I NEVER do this single handed, for that I use the motor. All this to say, I don't believe the O'Day 25 was designed to sail well with only one sail. I think you're better off putting up the proper jib, then reefing the mainsail as needed. If someone had told me that 2 years ago, I would have smiled and kept doing what I did back then. However, back then I was just a new boat owner, now I'm more of a sailor.
I too own an O'Day 25. You didn't mention what year it was, so I'm going to assume it's an older one (mine is a 1976 model). When I first got my boat, I experimented around with different configurations for reduced sail. I didn't know much, so I didn't know many different things to try, and eventually settled into three configurations: 1 Full sail - mainsail and 150 genoa 2 Reduced for light wind - 150 genoa only 3 Reduce for heavy wind - mainsail only Experience since then (I've had the boat 2 1/2 years, and sail a LOT) has shown that of the above setups, only the first is right, and that only part of the time. What follows is what I BELIEVE from experience. I could be mistaken about any of it, and if someone with more experience than me knows differently, or even BELIEVES differently, please feel free to correct me. My boat is designed with the jib sail as the main "engine". The main serves basically to stablize the boat. If you take the main down, the boat (as mentioned by others) tends to lee helm badly. It is also much less responsive to any attempts to bring it into the wind. As a side note, when I sail, I set the jib for what I believe to be optimum, and then set the main to best serve the jib (IE set to allow the jib full wind instead of "stealing" the jib's wind). This seems to work very well for us. When we take the jib down, and sail with only the main, the boat reacts to the rudder very poorly on all directions, but especially when the wind is abeam or on a run. The boat sideslips terribly, and is very unresponsive when turning. Some of the stitching on the Genoa came loose, so we were using the largely unused smaller jib (110) while it was being repaired. I was amazed at the difference. Gone were the 25-35 thrillin heels in the wind, but the boat pointed better, was more responsive and less tiring. I'm one of these kind of people that like to have everything working the way it was designed to work, and then start building my understanding of things after that. When I got my boat, I noticed the grommet holes in the main for reefing, but really didn't use them. The on time I tried to reef (early one), I just tying small ropes through them. Seemed a lot of trouble, and I didn't see much difference (at the time, I was only using the main, now "not making much difference" makes sense). I also noticed several blocks on the boom that weren't being used. I finally found that the O'Day 25 came equipped with a jiffy-reefing system. I did some some research, and found that all that was really missing on mine was a snatch block and some line. I got the jiffy reef system reinstalled, and learned to use it. One day in a sudden storm on our lake (that fortunately only lasted about 10 minutes), we had a really hard time getting the Genoa down. After that, I installed a downhaul. It's made a world of difference for my wife who usually drops sails, and me who is usually the one getting chewed out for not holding into the wind long enough, or losing my patience when she's taking too long. Now, she really likes me "helping" her pull the jib down. Now, to tie all that together, I learned a bunch of lessons that make my sailing experience better. I have two basic setups that I go with: 15 knots or less 150 genoa & main sail. I reef the main sail if I find myself having to regularly over compensate for weather helm. If that doesn't help, or if the winds pick up significantly, we drop the Genoa and put up the 110. The downhaul helps tremendously with dropping the jib. 15 knots or more 110 jib, and main sail reefed. We unreef if the winds let up, or we feel comfortable doing so. The only time I sail with only one sail (the main) is when we decide to sail into our marina slip instead of motoring. I do this because the prevailing winds usually are at our back and slightly from the port side, and it's blocked well enough to prevent any surprises. The one time I made the mistake of leaving it up all the way into the slip, when I turned into the slip, the boat kept sliding sideways. I didn't bang it up, but only because my brother was on board, and jumped on to the dock to push me over. Now, I power until right before I turn, have the wife quickly drop the sail, and coast in. I NEVER do this single handed, for that I use the motor. All this to say, I don't believe the O'Day 25 was designed to sail well with only one sail. I think you're better off putting up the proper jib, then reefing the mainsail as needed. If someone had told me that 2 years ago, I would have smiled and kept doing what I did back then. However, back then I was just a new boat owner, now I'm more of a sailor.
reef
The previous accounts all have some valuable info. I've found reefing the main early helps. Changing to smaller jib if possible keeps everything balanced. If alone, a downhaul on genny at least gets the sail on deck w/out having to go forward. My boat, a Mariner, balances pretty well under reefed main alone even if it can't point very well. If it gets really nasty I pull it all down & motor.
The previous accounts all have some valuable info. I've found reefing the main early helps. Changing to smaller jib if possible keeps everything balanced. If alone, a downhaul on genny at least gets the sail on deck w/out having to go forward. My boat, a Mariner, balances pretty well under reefed main alone even if it can't point very well. If it gets really nasty I pull it all down & motor.
thanks guys!
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions, the info is great. This past weekend I was able to get out on the water for a total of 10-12 hours in light to moderate winds. I used some of your info to experiment with the boat ie: letting go of the tiller and seeing what happens under different sails, it helped me to become a little more comfortable with the boat and hopefully a better sailor but of course there is much to learn. This site is a great resource and I look forward to further communication in the future.
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions, the info is great. This past weekend I was able to get out on the water for a total of 10-12 hours in light to moderate winds. I used some of your info to experiment with the boat ie: letting go of the tiller and seeing what happens under different sails, it helped me to become a little more comfortable with the boat and hopefully a better sailor but of course there is much to learn. This site is a great resource and I look forward to further communication in the future.
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