I currently own a H-27 with the 4'3" draft keel. (Deep for that boat) I am considering trading in the boat for a 36' with a 5'draft. The question I have is will I still be able to sail the great sout bay? We are currently in Bay Shore, and have relatively no problem with the 4'3", so what's another 9 inches gonna do? I need to know soon, because the marina cannot hold the new larger beam slip for me much longer. Any helpw will be greatly appreciated! Thanks, John Giaccio H-27
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Charts ???
John, Just a little bit curious. If you sail there now, what do you use for charts? I would think that you could use your own "local knowledge" plus a good set of charts covering the area you sail in to judge the extra keel depth. Ron Parkes s/v Contemplation H320 - 4'3"
John, Just a little bit curious. If you sail there now, what do you use for charts? I would think that you could use your own "local knowledge" plus a good set of charts covering the area you sail in to judge the extra keel depth. Ron Parkes s/v Contemplation H320 - 4'3"
I have charts Ron!!
However: I've only been sailing the area for less than a year. Would have liked to get a response from someone who has sailed the area for years and could provide me with some pros & cons about the deeper draft. Obviously I looked at the charts and it can be done, but to what level of enjoyment? Will I be alienating myself from some of the popular spots on Fire Island, or some of the beautiful overnight spots on the Connetiquat River. These are some questions that I am looking forward to getting opinions on, not some answer that insinuates that I am not smart enough to have looked at my chart!!!!!!!!! IDIOT!!!!!!!!!
However: I've only been sailing the area for less than a year. Would have liked to get a response from someone who has sailed the area for years and could provide me with some pros & cons about the deeper draft. Obviously I looked at the charts and it can be done, but to what level of enjoyment? Will I be alienating myself from some of the popular spots on Fire Island, or some of the beautiful overnight spots on the Connetiquat River. These are some questions that I am looking forward to getting opinions on, not some answer that insinuates that I am not smart enough to have looked at my chart!!!!!!!!! IDIOT!!!!!!!!!
Charts Don't Show 100%
Just because one has the latest edition government chart don't be lulled into a false sense of security thinking that everything is shown. The chart can be a brand new 2001 edition but based on a survey back in 1927 with a lead line spot depths and lat and long based on who-knows-what accuracy. The new surveys are light-years ahead of the accuracy of some of the old surveys but just because the chart is "new" doesn't mean a new survey was done. Case in point #1: Location in my home waters, Bainbridge Island, Pudget Sound. One of the largest ferries in the fleet which runs to Seattle runs aground on an uncharted rock!! Ferries have been going in and out of the channel to Eagle Harbor for decades but on this trip a rock was discovered. Case in point #2: Bristol Bay in Alaska, this is in the Bearing Sea. Even though one can be a hundred miles away from shore there are areas which are shoal and may even dry at low tied. The old fisning boats in the area were typically relatively flat-bottom as a result of their fishing grounds. These shoal areas are known to shift or change in elevation/depth so if one counts on using a chart exclusively they could be asking for trouble. If I had limited experience in a new area I'd value input from people with good local knowledge and some of the best people to get this from are commercial fishermen. Personally, I like lots of water under the keel and only test the depth when going v e r y slow, and on a rising tide. Since our water is murkey a lead line on the bow helps too.
Just because one has the latest edition government chart don't be lulled into a false sense of security thinking that everything is shown. The chart can be a brand new 2001 edition but based on a survey back in 1927 with a lead line spot depths and lat and long based on who-knows-what accuracy. The new surveys are light-years ahead of the accuracy of some of the old surveys but just because the chart is "new" doesn't mean a new survey was done. Case in point #1: Location in my home waters, Bainbridge Island, Pudget Sound. One of the largest ferries in the fleet which runs to Seattle runs aground on an uncharted rock!! Ferries have been going in and out of the channel to Eagle Harbor for decades but on this trip a rock was discovered. Case in point #2: Bristol Bay in Alaska, this is in the Bearing Sea. Even though one can be a hundred miles away from shore there are areas which are shoal and may even dry at low tied. The old fisning boats in the area were typically relatively flat-bottom as a result of their fishing grounds. These shoal areas are known to shift or change in elevation/depth so if one counts on using a chart exclusively they could be asking for trouble. If I had limited experience in a new area I'd value input from people with good local knowledge and some of the best people to get this from are commercial fishermen. Personally, I like lots of water under the keel and only test the depth when going v e r y slow, and on a rising tide. Since our water is murkey a lead line on the bow helps too.
John, John, John...
Your unfortunate response does nothing to counteract the impression of you that you fear is being insinuated. We strive for a high level of politesse on this site. Name calling is well below this level. Behavior of this type guarantees that you will get no helpful replies to any of your questions. Perhaps you might be asked to move on.
Your unfortunate response does nothing to counteract the impression of you that you fear is being insinuated. We strive for a high level of politesse on this site. Name calling is well below this level. Behavior of this type guarantees that you will get no helpful replies to any of your questions. Perhaps you might be asked to move on.
Police Brutality!
Did you read the lucid, articulate response that John Nantz wrote to my question? Now there's a thinking man for ya'. Time for the behavior police to hit the doughnut shop!
Did you read the lucid, articulate response that John Nantz wrote to my question? Now there's a thinking man for ya'. Time for the behavior police to hit the doughnut shop!
Great south Bay
Any of the waters from Jones Inlet right out to the peconic stink. When I had a 38 ft trawler,I was thinking about putting wheels on it. I had my charts and chartploter,gps and even the capn. I actually wore down the bottom of the skeg and it started leaking at the Lindenhurst cut and just made it. The north shore been much better for boating, you can go anyplace. I think they place the bouys anyplace so they can get rid of them. When I bought my sailboat,a 450,I couldnt get to the gas dock at high tide we had to use a line. DISCUSTED And you guys better watch your tongue you nasty you.
Any of the waters from Jones Inlet right out to the peconic stink. When I had a 38 ft trawler,I was thinking about putting wheels on it. I had my charts and chartploter,gps and even the capn. I actually wore down the bottom of the skeg and it started leaking at the Lindenhurst cut and just made it. The north shore been much better for boating, you can go anyplace. I think they place the bouys anyplace so they can get rid of them. When I bought my sailboat,a 450,I couldnt get to the gas dock at high tide we had to use a line. DISCUSTED And you guys better watch your tongue you nasty you.
Sailing there now
John, I have sailed the Great South Bay since I was 12 years old (That's quite a few years ago!) - everything from dinks up to thirty-two foot mono and multihulls. I am presently in a Catalina 30 that draws 4' 6". I occassionally "bump" if I do not pay attention in a close spot, but all in all, I have no real problems sailing in the bay. Most of the Fire Island spots you may be interested in should still be open to you. I tend to use Sailor's Haven and Atlantique a good deal. At Sailor's Haven you just have to "play" the tides like they used to do in the "good old days." At Atlantique there are no problems at all. I also occassionally anchor in the Connectquot River (spelling?) for the day after sailing from Bay Shore, and then sail home in the evening. Just a few words in defense of Great South Bay sailing...No matter what others may say, the bay is a great place to sail and it always has plenty of wind. Why else would the bay have the rich racing tradition taht it has? In fact, those "deep water" north shore sailors are usually quite surprised at the performance we get on the south shore when they sail with me. Of course, we also have easy access to the ocean where sailing becomes incomparable! I'd stay away from Babylon and Lindenhurst and all points west though with the draft you are considering. There's plenty of sailing to be done from Bay Shore across to Fire Island and out to Patchogue without much fear of running aground as long as you stay alert, which we should all do all of the time anyway, right?
John, I have sailed the Great South Bay since I was 12 years old (That's quite a few years ago!) - everything from dinks up to thirty-two foot mono and multihulls. I am presently in a Catalina 30 that draws 4' 6". I occassionally "bump" if I do not pay attention in a close spot, but all in all, I have no real problems sailing in the bay. Most of the Fire Island spots you may be interested in should still be open to you. I tend to use Sailor's Haven and Atlantique a good deal. At Sailor's Haven you just have to "play" the tides like they used to do in the "good old days." At Atlantique there are no problems at all. I also occassionally anchor in the Connectquot River (spelling?) for the day after sailing from Bay Shore, and then sail home in the evening. Just a few words in defense of Great South Bay sailing...No matter what others may say, the bay is a great place to sail and it always has plenty of wind. Why else would the bay have the rich racing tradition taht it has? In fact, those "deep water" north shore sailors are usually quite surprised at the performance we get on the south shore when they sail with me. Of course, we also have easy access to the ocean where sailing becomes incomparable! I'd stay away from Babylon and Lindenhurst and all points west though with the draft you are considering. There's plenty of sailing to be done from Bay Shore across to Fire Island and out to Patchogue without much fear of running aground as long as you stay alert, which we should all do all of the time anyway, right?
John Nantz, Great Post
I really didn't see anything wrong with your post. It was informative and essential, especially for our area. Sean
I really didn't see anything wrong with your post. It was informative and essential, especially for our area. Sean
Make your own waypoints
Just a thought, If you have a GPS and Depthsounder. Make a few "personal" observations of depths. I always like to get as close to shore as is prudent and safe when anchoring. This works for me and could help you make your decision on a deeper draft vessel. Sorry I don't sail in your location, but I have kept my boat on a lake that has an average depth of 10 feet or less. My "personal" waypoints and depths have kept me from running aground with my 5'3" draft! If you miss the channel by more than 10 feet you are sure to get in the mud! I hate to say it but I still had a few "groundings".
Just a thought, If you have a GPS and Depthsounder. Make a few "personal" observations of depths. I always like to get as close to shore as is prudent and safe when anchoring. This works for me and could help you make your decision on a deeper draft vessel. Sorry I don't sail in your location, but I have kept my boat on a lake that has an average depth of 10 feet or less. My "personal" waypoints and depths have kept me from running aground with my 5'3" draft! If you miss the channel by more than 10 feet you are sure to get in the mud! I hate to say it but I still had a few "groundings".
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