What is the future of our sport? What do you think? I've read recently that the National Sporting Goods Association has ranked Sailing 5th on top growth sports last year but noted that over the past 10 years, the sport has declined significantly. Interested in what anyone's thoughts are for grassroot efforts to maintain this wonderful sport and if anyone has any other information supporting the health of it's current state. I'd appreciate comments. Tim
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Nichole
Have you checked the UBS web site lately? Try going to Newport, Rhode Island and see. Sailing is alive, well and thriving here in RI>
Have you checked the UBS web site lately? Try going to Newport, Rhode Island and see. Sailing is alive, well and thriving here in RI>
Another "fringe" sport?
I have been involved in bicycle racing for many of my 60 years. People in the sport agonize when they cannot get TV coverage for the Tour de France. Same with soccer. . .and the same with sailing. But it never bothered me, not the cycling and not the sailing. They are MY sports and if I am the last one out there so be it. That is not to say that I do not enjoy other aspects of both sports, I really do. And I would miss the bull sessions during the week, the little that is on TV, and mostly the technology change. If we didn't buy bikes and sailboats there wouldn't be money for development. And the cost of new boats is directly tied to volume of sales. But when I am out there alone I sure don't worry about it.
I have been involved in bicycle racing for many of my 60 years. People in the sport agonize when they cannot get TV coverage for the Tour de France. Same with soccer. . .and the same with sailing. But it never bothered me, not the cycling and not the sailing. They are MY sports and if I am the last one out there so be it. That is not to say that I do not enjoy other aspects of both sports, I really do. And I would miss the bull sessions during the week, the little that is on TV, and mostly the technology change. If we didn't buy bikes and sailboats there wouldn't be money for development. And the cost of new boats is directly tied to volume of sales. But when I am out there alone I sure don't worry about it.
Sailing is thriving at Lake Stockton
While we don't have the wonderful sailing opportunities of the coasts, sailing is thriving on our 25,000 acre Corps lake. We have a beartiful lake, all natural, no houses, docks or businesses can be built in view of the lake. The water is clean and clear. We can sail about 12-15 miles from the dam to a bridge (too low to sail under) -- our longest run. We have over 400 sailboats slipped on the lake. I think that is a fantastic number and about a 40% gain since we got our slip in 1999. Despite adding new slips at our marina, there are still waiting lists for slips on our lake. We have some darn nice boats on our lake and some very knowledgable skippers. The boat next to me is a "loaded" Beneteau 40CC. There is a Hunter 43 at the next marina, a new Hunter 380, a couple of Morgans. The owner of our marina is the Beneteau dealer, so we see many more new Beneteaus. I see some boats for sale, but no more than usual. Just my .02 cents. Wynn Ferrel S/V Tranquility
While we don't have the wonderful sailing opportunities of the coasts, sailing is thriving on our 25,000 acre Corps lake. We have a beartiful lake, all natural, no houses, docks or businesses can be built in view of the lake. The water is clean and clear. We can sail about 12-15 miles from the dam to a bridge (too low to sail under) -- our longest run. We have over 400 sailboats slipped on the lake. I think that is a fantastic number and about a 40% gain since we got our slip in 1999. Despite adding new slips at our marina, there are still waiting lists for slips on our lake. We have some darn nice boats on our lake and some very knowledgable skippers. The boat next to me is a "loaded" Beneteau 40CC. There is a Hunter 43 at the next marina, a new Hunter 380, a couple of Morgans. The owner of our marina is the Beneteau dealer, so we see many more new Beneteaus. I see some boats for sale, but no more than usual. Just my .02 cents. Wynn Ferrel S/V Tranquility
Too much soccer
Until we do away with soccer and other assorted sports that parents have to drag their kids to, sailing will be in jeopardy. Too bad Mom and Dad have to wait for Junior to go off to college before getting to enjoy sailing.
Until we do away with soccer and other assorted sports that parents have to drag their kids to, sailing will be in jeopardy. Too bad Mom and Dad have to wait for Junior to go off to college before getting to enjoy sailing.
Alive and well
I remember a similar discussion about 12 years ago on an old Gopher discussion group. (Gopher was like a really old school text only internet application; there was no generally used www at that point). After some initial growth, snowboard sales had stagnated and then declined slightly while the number of mountains willing to let snowboarders onto them had reverted somewhat. Those of us into the sport were worried about its future. As anyone who's even been near a ski resort knows, we needn't have worried. Sailing is similar. Some of the numbers I saw while working at an evil chain marine supplier confirm the assertion that sailing is growing quickly now, but suffered a decline in the last ten years. The early 1990's were brutal to the sailing industry. Almost every U.S. sailboat manufacturer went bankrupt. Those that survived were almost all reorganized. Nobody bought new boats or very much gear from 1988 until about 1994. Until about a year ago the sailing industry was in great shape. New boat sales were the highest in recreational sailing history and equipment sales matched. Now no one's buying - are you? Not me. But we needn't worry. The sailing industry relies on our continued discretionary income. The sport doesn't. Our boats are not consumable - sails and other parts may be - but the basic structure will be intact. As long as there are people who cannot help but stare at the water, there will be sailors. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
I remember a similar discussion about 12 years ago on an old Gopher discussion group. (Gopher was like a really old school text only internet application; there was no generally used www at that point). After some initial growth, snowboard sales had stagnated and then declined slightly while the number of mountains willing to let snowboarders onto them had reverted somewhat. Those of us into the sport were worried about its future. As anyone who's even been near a ski resort knows, we needn't have worried. Sailing is similar. Some of the numbers I saw while working at an evil chain marine supplier confirm the assertion that sailing is growing quickly now, but suffered a decline in the last ten years. The early 1990's were brutal to the sailing industry. Almost every U.S. sailboat manufacturer went bankrupt. Those that survived were almost all reorganized. Nobody bought new boats or very much gear from 1988 until about 1994. Until about a year ago the sailing industry was in great shape. New boat sales were the highest in recreational sailing history and equipment sales matched. Now no one's buying - are you? Not me. But we needn't worry. The sailing industry relies on our continued discretionary income. The sport doesn't. Our boats are not consumable - sails and other parts may be - but the basic structure will be intact. As long as there are people who cannot help but stare at the water, there will be sailors. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
"Fringe" addendum.
Something I have always attributed to lack of growth in cycling is also true in sailing, it's a hard sport. Try riding your bike 75 to 100 miles a day at least five days a week. That's just so you can stay with the main bunch. I was reminded of this the other day when I was talking to a fellow in the marina head who was visiting. He was apologetic about owning a powerboat, he said he could never handle a sailboat. People love to sail when you are doing the work. They ask, "how do you know where all those ropes go and what they control"? I explain that it is part of the beauty of sailing, knowing how to use all those ropes to harness the wind. They just shake their heads. But by the time all the docklines are secure, the main is flaked, the sailcovers are in place, and the hatchboards are locked I am one tired puppy!
Something I have always attributed to lack of growth in cycling is also true in sailing, it's a hard sport. Try riding your bike 75 to 100 miles a day at least five days a week. That's just so you can stay with the main bunch. I was reminded of this the other day when I was talking to a fellow in the marina head who was visiting. He was apologetic about owning a powerboat, he said he could never handle a sailboat. People love to sail when you are doing the work. They ask, "how do you know where all those ropes go and what they control"? I explain that it is part of the beauty of sailing, knowing how to use all those ropes to harness the wind. They just shake their heads. But by the time all the docklines are secure, the main is flaked, the sailcovers are in place, and the hatchboards are locked I am one tired puppy!
Sailing is *My* Future
As far as the sport's future as a whole, I could not care less how popular it is, or how much it is growing. It's all about my boat, on my patch of water. I kinda wish it would shrink a little, to tell the truth. Ever try to get a weekend berth at an east coast marina? Sailing will never, ever, ever appeal to the masses. Along with being expensive, it's too slow, too difficult, too cerebral. The same reasons that drew most of us to the sport keep nearly everyone else away. In that sense, it's perfect.
As far as the sport's future as a whole, I could not care less how popular it is, or how much it is growing. It's all about my boat, on my patch of water. I kinda wish it would shrink a little, to tell the truth. Ever try to get a weekend berth at an east coast marina? Sailing will never, ever, ever appeal to the masses. Along with being expensive, it's too slow, too difficult, too cerebral. The same reasons that drew most of us to the sport keep nearly everyone else away. In that sense, it's perfect.
let it die off
If you found a gold mine would you tell everyone where it is? no "waiting lists" for moorings or dock space,less crowded anchorages, no waiting at the fuel/water dock, more good used boats available for the diehards. sounds good to me andy
If you found a gold mine would you tell everyone where it is? no "waiting lists" for moorings or dock space,less crowded anchorages, no waiting at the fuel/water dock, more good used boats available for the diehards. sounds good to me andy
Let it die off? NO WAY!
I think the general trend is that people are turning to power boats more than sail boats...the last thing I want to deal with is more stupid powerboaters who take up all of the moorings anyway, don't have a clue about marine ediquitte and offer me a nice 3' wake everytime they pass by. I say we should promote the virtues of sailing, thank you very much. Allen Schweitzer s/v Drambuie C-30 Hull# 632
I think the general trend is that people are turning to power boats more than sail boats...the last thing I want to deal with is more stupid powerboaters who take up all of the moorings anyway, don't have a clue about marine ediquitte and offer me a nice 3' wake everytime they pass by. I say we should promote the virtues of sailing, thank you very much. Allen Schweitzer s/v Drambuie C-30 Hull# 632
If the sport is not popular
If the sport is not popular, I sure am. There is always a waiting list of friends who want to go with us and thier kids. Although the kids cant sail by themselves, they are proud to help and see Dad as skipper in front of thier friends. I bought and totally restored a 1975 Oday 25 and am proud of her. My wife and kids helped too. People think it is a new boat (although real sailors know its not). Even my wife likes to go and is learning to sail. What a perfect family activity. There is only a finite amount of water in the world and adding extra boats will not enhance my experience. Us ceribrial old hippies like participating in an eclectic sport. Glad all you do too. Ric "comes a time" 1975 Oday 25, #152 Amherst, NH
If the sport is not popular, I sure am. There is always a waiting list of friends who want to go with us and thier kids. Although the kids cant sail by themselves, they are proud to help and see Dad as skipper in front of thier friends. I bought and totally restored a 1975 Oday 25 and am proud of her. My wife and kids helped too. People think it is a new boat (although real sailors know its not). Even my wife likes to go and is learning to sail. What a perfect family activity. There is only a finite amount of water in the world and adding extra boats will not enhance my experience. Us ceribrial old hippies like participating in an eclectic sport. Glad all you do too. Ric "comes a time" 1975 Oday 25, #152 Amherst, NH
Definate growth
There will be growth in the sport. Two Reasons: 1. Population growth! 2. There is an interest for family oriented activities. Sailing is a great option. I as many of my sailing friends love to take sailing "virgins" out on the water. Neighbors and folks from church as well as business associates think it is wonderful. Skip "Kid Napper" Cat 27
There will be growth in the sport. Two Reasons: 1. Population growth! 2. There is an interest for family oriented activities. Sailing is a great option. I as many of my sailing friends love to take sailing "virgins" out on the water. Neighbors and folks from church as well as business associates think it is wonderful. Skip "Kid Napper" Cat 27
Growth... I hope not.
I have been sailing off and on since I was a kid in the '60's... remember them??? As much as I now enjoy sailing and boating again I do hope the sport/recreation does not experience much, if any growth. Growth seems to breed ignorance and there is already too much of that on the water now. I went through the camper and RV boom along with the NASCAR thing early on and really am fed up with the ignorant crowd that popularity attracts. Sailing is giving me back some of the solitude and freedom of my youth and although I do not mind sharing the experience and joys with others I just am not as patient with the disrespectful as I used to be. The waterways are home to many species and we are not the only ones out there. The sun and wind are the last few of God's gifts that we, as species, have not totally raped. The waters can be saved with some help and consideration. To all, happy sailing, and enjoy the freedom of the seas, and respect each other sail and powerboats alike.
I have been sailing off and on since I was a kid in the '60's... remember them??? As much as I now enjoy sailing and boating again I do hope the sport/recreation does not experience much, if any growth. Growth seems to breed ignorance and there is already too much of that on the water now. I went through the camper and RV boom along with the NASCAR thing early on and really am fed up with the ignorant crowd that popularity attracts. Sailing is giving me back some of the solitude and freedom of my youth and although I do not mind sharing the experience and joys with others I just am not as patient with the disrespectful as I used to be. The waterways are home to many species and we are not the only ones out there. The sun and wind are the last few of God's gifts that we, as species, have not totally raped. The waters can be saved with some help and consideration. To all, happy sailing, and enjoy the freedom of the seas, and respect each other sail and powerboats alike.
I agree with Paul and Ric
The east coast may not reflect the conditions in the rest of the country, but here I feel there is little growth. I am baseing that on the number of sailboats I became aware of when I went looking for mine. You can't give away a fixed keel boat up here. I saw a bright and shiney 24'er for $1500. There are piles of boats that have been sitting in yards for YEARS waiting to be sold. Newport 27, diesel, solid deck, asking $5500, you could probably get it for $3750, perhaps less and a 23' '83 O'Day with CDI and outboard, in excellent shape, $3000, maybe a little less with cash. That's just two boats from one yard. I got my 25' 1976 O'Day with inboard vire 7 for $3500, and I probably could have done better if I tried. I'm following Ric's footsteps with the restoration ordeal. I was even lucky enough to meet him and see his boat. It just seems to me there isn't enough macho posturing, horespower and noise, to satisfy the younger crowd. I sailed alot with my dad when I was a teenager. He's too old to even get into a boat today. Somehow I feel like I'm returning to a better time and my head is in a better place when I sail. Oh sure, still have the "bigger is better" thing going on and I'm happier with the 25' than I was with my 16'. (I haven't even launched it yet. We'll see how long that "bigger is better" happiness lasts after I get the 25'er on and off the trailer a few times!) I do agree with Paul. Too much to learn, too quiet. It's a personal challenge and not a high profile activity. Too Zen! I doubt my kids will go sailing a second time unless I can figure out how to install a nintendo so they don't get bored. I'm hopeing that if I sail long enough, they'll finally get bored with the electric toys and come up on deck and learn something. It would be a great day for us all.
The east coast may not reflect the conditions in the rest of the country, but here I feel there is little growth. I am baseing that on the number of sailboats I became aware of when I went looking for mine. You can't give away a fixed keel boat up here. I saw a bright and shiney 24'er for $1500. There are piles of boats that have been sitting in yards for YEARS waiting to be sold. Newport 27, diesel, solid deck, asking $5500, you could probably get it for $3750, perhaps less and a 23' '83 O'Day with CDI and outboard, in excellent shape, $3000, maybe a little less with cash. That's just two boats from one yard. I got my 25' 1976 O'Day with inboard vire 7 for $3500, and I probably could have done better if I tried. I'm following Ric's footsteps with the restoration ordeal. I was even lucky enough to meet him and see his boat. It just seems to me there isn't enough macho posturing, horespower and noise, to satisfy the younger crowd. I sailed alot with my dad when I was a teenager. He's too old to even get into a boat today. Somehow I feel like I'm returning to a better time and my head is in a better place when I sail. Oh sure, still have the "bigger is better" thing going on and I'm happier with the 25' than I was with my 16'. (I haven't even launched it yet. We'll see how long that "bigger is better" happiness lasts after I get the 25'er on and off the trailer a few times!) I do agree with Paul. Too much to learn, too quiet. It's a personal challenge and not a high profile activity. Too Zen! I doubt my kids will go sailing a second time unless I can figure out how to install a nintendo so they don't get bored. I'm hopeing that if I sail long enough, they'll finally get bored with the electric toys and come up on deck and learn something. It would be a great day for us all.
Tom!
Think about the Game boy Advance or color models. Also there are new flat screens for some game systems that use very little 12 volt power. My youngest loves to sail and my older two still like going for rides and swimming off the boat. Do anything you can to make it fun. Frank
Think about the Game boy Advance or color models. Also there are new flat screens for some game systems that use very little 12 volt power. My youngest loves to sail and my older two still like going for rides and swimming off the boat. Do anything you can to make it fun. Frank
Agree With Tom
.. too slow, not enough action and just not the current thing. And, lost a lot of its luster. Owners scruffier. Lots of otherwise lost-soul homeless guys in old sailboats as cheap housing. Slips and amenities built in the late 50's through the mid 70's deteriorating. Older owners moving upscale. Racing expensive and hyper competitive. Systems very complex. But, there is often a cyclicality to these things. The time/speed issue will probably always be with us though. Rick D.
.. too slow, not enough action and just not the current thing. And, lost a lot of its luster. Owners scruffier. Lots of otherwise lost-soul homeless guys in old sailboats as cheap housing. Slips and amenities built in the late 50's through the mid 70's deteriorating. Older owners moving upscale. Racing expensive and hyper competitive. Systems very complex. But, there is often a cyclicality to these things. The time/speed issue will probably always be with us though. Rick D.
Sport vs recreation
It may be interesting to understand the criteria the NSGA used to define a sport , and how they classified the members of the group knows as sailboaters (yes, I'm a market researcher). While I think we would all agree that a 15 year old kid racing a Laser is clearly sport, I'm not sure that me with a beer in a Passage 42 would qualify, either in our minds or their study. It is a recreation to me. Key drivers of this recreation would be economy and demographics. I would bet there would be a decline coming soon if the economy continues to suffer through another boating season, and the aging population moves throught the prime sailing years. Never forget the impact the baby boomer bubble has on America. As we age, we all act pretty much in a predicatable fashion. As we came into extra money and a love of sailing, we bought sailboats. As we age out of mainline sailing age we will sell the boats and get out of boating or buy powerboats. My guess is that this may be a decent explanation for all the damn powerboats I see. Gettin' too old to sail, gotta buy that Sea Ray! As the bubble ages there are fewer people coming behind us in the immediate generation to fill the holes (the Social Security problem), therefore I bet sailing will decline because like everything else, we are the peak of the bubble. Now, I know there will be a string of posts similar to "Not me, Bruce!!! I'll always sail!" For those people, and I hope to hell I am one of them, we will be content in being the old guy at the end of the dock who always has a smile on his face, because we are the sailors. If I don't make it, I'll keep my wake down to 3 feet as I go by!!!!
It may be interesting to understand the criteria the NSGA used to define a sport , and how they classified the members of the group knows as sailboaters (yes, I'm a market researcher). While I think we would all agree that a 15 year old kid racing a Laser is clearly sport, I'm not sure that me with a beer in a Passage 42 would qualify, either in our minds or their study. It is a recreation to me. Key drivers of this recreation would be economy and demographics. I would bet there would be a decline coming soon if the economy continues to suffer through another boating season, and the aging population moves throught the prime sailing years. Never forget the impact the baby boomer bubble has on America. As we age, we all act pretty much in a predicatable fashion. As we came into extra money and a love of sailing, we bought sailboats. As we age out of mainline sailing age we will sell the boats and get out of boating or buy powerboats. My guess is that this may be a decent explanation for all the damn powerboats I see. Gettin' too old to sail, gotta buy that Sea Ray! As the bubble ages there are fewer people coming behind us in the immediate generation to fill the holes (the Social Security problem), therefore I bet sailing will decline because like everything else, we are the peak of the bubble. Now, I know there will be a string of posts similar to "Not me, Bruce!!! I'll always sail!" For those people, and I hope to hell I am one of them, we will be content in being the old guy at the end of the dock who always has a smile on his face, because we are the sailors. If I don't make it, I'll keep my wake down to 3 feet as I go by!!!!
That's good Bruce.
I like that we are the "peak of the bubble". And you are absolutely correct about the age thing. It is directly connected with my previous two posts on this topic, the "recreation" of sailing is hard work. There is an aging group that will not be put off by this. They already don't leave the slip, the boat is the weekend cabin. They are very content to spend the weekend socializing at the marina. So will they always count as sailors? And will they continue to buy new, bigger sailboats? I think they will.
I like that we are the "peak of the bubble". And you are absolutely correct about the age thing. It is directly connected with my previous two posts on this topic, the "recreation" of sailing is hard work. There is an aging group that will not be put off by this. They already don't leave the slip, the boat is the weekend cabin. They are very content to spend the weekend socializing at the marina. So will they always count as sailors? And will they continue to buy new, bigger sailboats? I think they will.
The future of sailing is...,
The future of sailing is, in part, up to you... I fell in love with sailing as a early teenager, when I got to go out regularly on a freind's old 24' sailboat. I now consider myself to be an advocate of sailing and do what I can to introduce new people to the sport. I especially take every opportunity to invite young people out for daysails. I've hooked one already. He has has just finished college and is planning to get a 20' to 22' daysailer in the next few years.
The future of sailing is, in part, up to you... I fell in love with sailing as a early teenager, when I got to go out regularly on a freind's old 24' sailboat. I now consider myself to be an advocate of sailing and do what I can to introduce new people to the sport. I especially take every opportunity to invite young people out for daysails. I've hooked one already. He has has just finished college and is planning to get a 20' to 22' daysailer in the next few years.
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