Sailboat with Original Engine - Ya or Nay?

[smo10018]

Am in the process of selling a smaller sailboat and looking for a larger (38 to 40 foot) boat. For the budget we have we are looking at late 1970's to 1980's era boats and many have original engines - Perkins 4-108 is common with a few having Universal 5432 engines. Our soon to be sold boat was repowered which was definitely a part of the reason we bought it. This time however with a jump in size we don't seem to have that luxury.

Any thoughts on buying a boat with an engine that is 40 some years old? Most seem to indicate lower hours than I would expect so could have rebuilds but am not sure. Can't imagine a 40 plus year old engine could only have 2000 hours on it. Seems off to me.

Is there a particular older engine that you see as having stood the test of time better than another?

Anyhow would appreciate people's thoughts on this.

 

[rgranger]

Sailboats…. Often the engine is only used to get in and out of the slip

 

[JamesG161]

Any thoughts on buying a boat with an engine that is 40 some years old?

Ask @jssailem about his 4-107

Jim...

 

[RoyS]

My Yanmar was made in 1979. I rebuilt it one winter in my basement. If you can run your intended engine and watch for quick starting, no smoke, and no leaks, you should be able to decide

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Sounds like a cliche but I’d rather have an old, well-maintained diesel than a low hours, poorly maintained one.

 

[kloudie1]

Don is right on. Plus, I'd stay away from the sailboat ones that are kinda rare, like Bukh, Saab, BMW, Volkswagen, etc. Those may be a bit difficult to get parts for.

 

[Tally Ho]

Depends on hours and maintenance of the engine.

My 30+ year old Yanmar 2GM20F runs great, is very reliable and starts every time. But she also only has about 2,000 hours on it, and I am the 4th owner. In the great white north of the Great Lakes, the boats sit on the hard half a year…so a whole lot less use.

You could find a good diesel mechanic to run the engine on a boat you are interested in, and get a good idea of the condition. A regular survey won’t tell you much about the engine.

Greg

 

[jssailem]

I bought my 1974 built boat, in 2015. The Perkins 4.107 engine was built in 1973. Pre purchase research indicated the engine had been abused by previous owners without knowledge of diesel engine maintenance. Hours of operation were unavailable. I addressed an over heating issue that plagued the engine by replacing all of the cooling line hoses, the raw water pump impeller, and the engine cooling system pump. I cleaned up the fuel system and put a new gasket on the valve cover. That minimal work gave me an engine that purred for about 500 hours. In the Spring of 2022, the engine seized. I think it was because a 1973 gasket failed and let water seep into 2 of the cylinders. Time for a rebuild. That is what I am doing right now.

When buying the boat, I knew what I could read about the Perkins engines. They were solidly built. They served the trucking industry for the last 50 years as power sources to run refrigeration. They were preferred due to their reliability and long performance time between required maintenance.

As a marine engine they were positive enough for Westerbeke to buy them and fluff them up then sell them to boat owners as an improved engine.

The key is to have the engine examined by a good mechanic (if you are not well versed in diesel engines). Like Don says "an old well maintained diesel" truly is better.

If on examination:

• the engine looks to be well maintained,
• the hoses are in good shape,
• no oil or fuel leaks,
• the temperature runs in the proper range,
• and the Transmission preforms smoothly with out noise,

then I would spend money on a mechanic to give me an opinion or chance it if the boat price is good.

I like the 5 points stressed by John Harries about buying a boat. He calls them his "big 5". They are the essential boat functions in my mind.

• Keep the water out.
• Keep the crew on the boat.
• Keep the keel side down.
• Keep the mast up.
• Keep the rudder on.

If the boat can do that then you are likely to have a decent boat that can carry you on adventures.

 

[JamesG161]

I like the 5 points stressed by John Harries about buying a boat.

Duh I counted 4 on your list.

I know you just had a birthday too.

I will send you an abacus, if needed.

Jim...

PS: finger counting is allowed.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Duh I counted 4 on your list.

The fifth one is in fine print so small you can't read it*

*Something like this but even smaller.

 

[Hollyberry]

Perkins seem to run forever... but also seem to leak oil no matter what you do!

FWIW we had VW conversions in our last two boats since 1992... one a Pathfinder the other Brazilian. There's something to be said about being able to get a FWC pump for $60 from NAPA! .. parts will be come a challenge, however, as most of these are from '80s Rabbits engines. The specialty VW shops can be very helpful and at non-marine prices.

Now in the Volvo world.. and the '2000' series - which by all accounts are not particularly well regarded. Starts every time, though!

 

[Alan Gomes]

Sailboats…. Often the engine is only used to get in and out of the slip

And if that's the case, those are the engines to avoid. A diesel hates being run for short durations when it cannot get up to temperature. They like to be run hard.

 

[PaulK]

Our last boat had a 1982 Yanmar 3gm, raw water cooled. Keeping up with oil changes, belts and hoses seemed to keep it happy for the 24 years we used it. A couple of issues with fuel line leaks, but nothing dire; easily fixed.

 

[Rich Stidger]

I have a 25 year old Volvo diesel (MD22L-B), 2.0 liter, that is based upon a Perkins block. I have owned it since new with just over 3000 hours on it. Starts instantly, even after a winter layup, runs perfectly. It does use a little oil (unchanged from brand new), but it looks and runs like new. Engine and transmission oil change once per year. Fuel filters as required.
I would look for an engine that has a paper trail of service records and has been owned by a knowledgeable sailor who understands diesel maintenance.
We cruise and probably motor or motor-sail 80% of the time, so the engine is used on a regular basic during the season.

 

[jssailem]

My bad, James...
#5

• Keep the crew on the boat.

I would look at the engine space. Consider maintenance of the boat.
Is it easy to maintain the engine? Can you reach all the serviceable parts? Can I reach and service the transmission & shaft.

 

[smo10018]

Thanks everyone, definitely some great advice in there. No specific boat to focus on yet, hopefully which ever we set our sights on has a maintenance log. The boat we are selling certainly does.

I know the basics so will most likely hire someone to do a mechanic's survey.

Sean

 

[Kings Gambit]

Any thoughts on buying a boat with an engine that is 40 some years old? Most seem to indicate lower hours than I would expect so could have rebuilds but am not sure. Can't imagine a 40 plus year old engine could only have 2000 hours on it. Seems off to me.

Recreational boats and consequently recreational boat engines are generally under-utilized. Fifty engine hours average per year is probably in the lower mid-range for a sailboat’s diesel unless an owner has made some long or frequent trips largely under power. There might be long periods where the boat was not used at all, perhaps in the last 5 yr before being sold, etc. I would not say that the hours are “off.” For comparison, my boat of 23 yr age has 2,600 engine hours which may not be even 1/2 of its service life. But to the question of condition, that you’d have to assess mechanically. How it is cooled could be a factor.

 

[shemandr]

Is the OP financially prepared to re-power? If the engine fails he has a pretty expensive large asset that just turned into a liability. He'll still have yard and storage fees and won't be able to sell it. Hope is eternal, as is the large liability. He's got to consider the price of the boat to include a re-power and not rely on wishful thinking.

 

[Sandy Stone]

Is the OP financially prepared to re-power? If the engine fails he has a pretty expensive large asset that just turned into a liability. He'll still have yard and storage fees and won't be able to sell it. Hope is eternal, as is the large liability. He's got to consider the price of the boat to include a re-power and not rely on wishful thinking.

I think a careful examination of the existing engine would count as more than just "wishful thinking". But of course, nothing is certain - especially with boats.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

If you are buying a boat that has an engine that has an age of 40 to 50 years, I would expect that the purchase price reflects that fact and you should have the expectation going into it that a re-power may be necessary. If the engine lasts forever, great! That's a bonus. To rely on it without being prepared financially to re-power if necessary would be folly. I'm not saying that you should be successful in negotiating downward based on an assumption that you will re-power. The seller may have his/her own reasons for disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that you should be prepared financially for that outcome because there is probably a better-than-even chance that you will eventually have to face that reality if you are going to purchase a boat with an engine that old. You take your best look at it and decide! I bought our 20-year old boat with some trepidation over the engine, just based on appearance (everything proved to be up-to-par during sea trial). I find after three seasons that I have no worries so far, but I did purchase about $1,000 in Yanmar parts the first winter to do an overhaul and clean her up. You have to be willing and able to spend money when necessary!