Sailboat anchoring vrs powerboat anchoring

[Franklin]

I've seen some nice size (50' 3 decks) powerboats anchor out with me and they didn't have much scope (like 2:1) and not have a problem, but the same night two sailboats drag with at least a 5:1 scope. I always thought the more windage, the more pull on the anchor but this powerboat seemed to defy that. What gives? Do powerboats not pull on anchors as much? Is the weight of the boat a factor? If so, why are anchors sold my length of boat instead of weight or a combination of both? Just trying to make sense of what I saw.NOTE: I didn't see his anchor but he did use all chain but still...2:1...if it was even that. I didn't see any line for a kellet so I'm assuming he didn't have one. Also, the two sailboats were in more protected water then the powerboat who was in the current zone of the anchorage.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Powerboaters just do NOT know how to anchor

at least most of 'em

 

[droopy]

Bigger Anchor and / or more chain

plus they weight more!

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Yep, It was the chain.

And like most powerboaters, pure luck.

 

[Hugh4753]

Powerboat Anchoring

I was at the Fountain powerboat regatta this summer anchored out among powerboats and "yuk" pontoon barges watching the race. Once the race got going and the wakes got the chop up, those of us with sailboats spent as much time trying to tell the power guys that they needed more scope, and fending them off our boats when they started dragging, than watching the race. Apparently their idea is if the waters 8 or 9 feet deep you put out 12-15 feet of anchor line. I agree with the previous posts that powerboaters don't have a clue about anchoring or much of anything else for that matter.

 

[Doug]

Possible

I'm thinking the guy had a reasonable scope and using all chain it was dropping more vertical off the bow making it appear short in scope.

 

[Richard19068]

how do you know?

How do you know they only had 2-1. Did you see them put it out or only assume the scope from the angle of chain entering the water? A lot of time all chain rode will look like it is going straight down due to the weight of the chain even thought there is ample scope. I know you probably took this into account but just thought I would throw it out there.

 

[Joe]

richard and doug are correct...

I don't think it's possible to determine the scope simply by looking at the top 10 feet. All chain is very heavy and will appear nearly vertical when it enters the water. 3 to 1 is adequate scope for all chain anyway.

 

[Benny]

The Captain of a 50 footer

usually knows what they are doing. It is the operator of the 18-25 footer that worries me.

 

[Lyle]

Don't know about that

Just because you have the money to buy a 50 footer doesn't necessarily mean you have the smarts, boating knowledge or experience to operate it safely. I have seen some interesting performances on 50+ foot boats - yes usually power boats but not always!

 

[Franklin]

3:1 is good?

Is it really good enough with all chain? I didn't know that...I was thinking more of a 5:1 with all chain.Yes, I made my estimate from the angle of the chain. I figured with the wind blowing 18 knots and all the windage he had, it would have to have pulled it somewhat tight. That was the puzzling part...it didn't look tight at all and the reason I had to ask this question.

 

[rsn48]

Deeper versus shallower water

In deeper water you can get away with a 3:1 scope, in shallower water you are better off with a 4:1 scope. I have found that many all chain rode guys don't realize they need to have some kind of snubbing system in place for their all chain rode in a bigger blow. In a big blow, chain can straighten out and once that happens, there is nothing to soften the blows of straining rode.In actual fact, it was believed that an all chain rode was superior; now it is beginning to be believed that you might be better with something like 200 feet of chain with around 100+ of nylon rode. This combination of chain and nylon offers natural snubbing ability in a big blow and thus you don't have to worry about snubbing your chain rode. Many guys around here in coastal BC waters seem to carry a limited amount of chain, averaging around 150 feet which really is inadequate for our waters with deeper anchoring requirements than other places in North America. If the guy added another 150 feet of nylon to his 150 chain, he would be much better off. But try telling that to them, I know I have, they know I'm an idiot because clearly all chain is better than a combo - or so they think - and 150 leaves them often with a 3:1 ratio of scope.These guys don't seem to realize that 3:1 is a minimum with an incredibly much higher ratio required in a bad blow. In a serious blow, I'd want a minimum of 7:1 of scope, if I had 150 chain and 200 feet of line, not just 150 feet of chain only. Now some will think that a 7:1 is the minimum recommended with a combo rode, however this combo rode is usually with a minimum of chain anywhere from 12 feet to 35 feet, with a longer 150 chain, the chain acts as a sentinel; in fact in some studies, they have found that more chain is superior to using a sentinel, so a 7:1 scope ratio is different with 150 feet chain, than significantly shorter chain just alluded to in a 7:1 scope.It is my feeling after researching as best I could issues in anchoring, rodes, and scope, there has been little research done as to what works best. And many recommendations, even from anchor manufactures are minimum recommendations for a "working" anchor, not a storm anchor. When scope recommendations are given, the minimum is published so guys interpret the minimum is all they need.I sent an email off to Lawrence requesting the required chain I would need on my Delta plow in a combo rode; the answer I got back was 12 feet; even I knew better than that and added 30 feet, I would have felt better off with one hundred feet of chain, but I didn't want that weight in my 27 Catalina bow. A number of guys here have challenged me saying in their opinion, 30 feet of chain is the minimum and I would be better off with at least 50 feet of chain - I might end up doing this.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

rsn?

'Robert' as I recall. Are you planning to be anchored during 'blows' this winter? Whew. We have 200' as the primary on our H34. Works great. Love it, but we have yet to anchor out in a blow. Up your way this summer anchoring was the easiest part. Then came stern tying. Sure glad we had the RIB with the 25 horse Yamaha. Very useful for pushing not only our boat sideways but the neighbors too.Oh! More on anchor drills. This summer at Princess Louisa we were able to get a spot on the pier. Good because of the pups. Two boats had problems. One was a new 60 footer. He was anchored with one-to-one scope in front of Chatterbox Falls. His boat went due south after he went ashore. The skipper of another power boat (that we buddie boated with the rest of the month) dingied out to the yacht, hopped aboard, started the engines and hovered for FOUR HOURS until the owner returned. Who, by the way, just shrugged and said thanks. On the other boat the skipper was aboard. It was even larger. He was anchored in the outfall of the Falls. The wind overcame the current from the falls and pushed him onto the beach as the tide went out. He spent the afternoon on the gravel. He was aboard the whole time. And his kids just kept playing with their jet ski's. He didn't have a clue what to do. Must of been a 100 footer. New of course. Both of these boat where, (you guessed it) power boats.

 

[Fred Ficarra]

And another story;

Back in the late '80s we joined a local yacht club. (it shall remain nameless) One man spearheaded the reconstruction of the floats. He was the local 'old salt'. He was a power boater. A mid-thirties boat, low free-board classic of some sort. He did a great job on the floats and also supervised the work crews. He even wore a Greek fishermen's hat and was never seen without it. One day after we were moored there for about six months, I was engaged in a friendly conversation with him at the bow of my boat. He was interested in my boat for some reason. Then out of the blue he said "Fred, how do you anchor?". My jaw dropped. He didn't want to know how I did it, he wanted to know HOW. In thiry years, he had never anchored. He just went from dock to dock.

 

[Ross]

The secret is all in the chain

not the length only but in the weight. 300 feet of 1/4 " chain won't "do" nearly as well as 100 feet of 3/8" chain and 200 feet of nylon. and any rode that is still in the locker is no help at all.

 

[rsn48]

in like a lamb, out like a lion

Fred, my name is Rick, should put it in my signature somewhere. I adopted rsn48 as a company name, when I couldn't have just rsn (regional sports network in Eastern States); the 48 is my birth year. I'm not that well known here but I kept the rsn48 in forums and in model railroad forums where I am well known, so when I came here I just kept my "public" name.As you can tell, I moor in Horseshoe Bay and do some sailing in Howe Sound, towards Squamish, particularly day sails. Howe Sound is a pussy cat in the summer, but the Squamish wind, famous in these parts, can kick up quite a fuss in the off season. Most people sail in the "good" months and so "working" anchors and shorter rodes with less scope will work just fine. But as soon as you hit the "shoulder" sailing season, or sail "off" season around here you'd better be prepared; a typical late fall to early spring day in Johnson Strait is gail force winds.In an area I called the "training bra" area in Howe Sound, there is a marine park called "Plumper's Cove;" (a cove at Keats Island just off of Gibson's) a piece of cake to moor in during the summer months, but get caught with a Squamish wind blowing down the Sound then bending over to Plumper's Cove in the "off" season and you can have an interesting time if you haven't learned proper anchoring techniques.I love sailing in the off season and during our "winter" months, more like our monsoon season. The problem isn't the weather, but getting crew who are as crazy as I am about sailing off season.How did you like Princess Louisa area; it's where I plan to go next summer after I am over my hip replacement surgery, which I had this past mid-May.

 

[Peter]

Princess Louisa in Winter

RSN48,also consider going up to Princess Louisa in the Winter. Yes it's cold, and you definitely need heat in the boat, but its an absolutely stunning run with all the snow. From where you are, you can drop anchor in Green Bay and then run up the next day to Malibu Rapids (long day). We've been up 8 or 9 times in February, and believe it or not, I've never been up in the summer. And, we have never been the only ones at the dock.Peter

 

[rsn48]

Peter and Fred - You done convinced me

Well with two such sailors as you both, Peter and Fred, waxing so poetically about Princess Louisa, and in the winter, you've done sweet talked me into giving it a try in this off season. Now all I need is a crazy crew mate... lol!I've been doing some cleaning up, re-painting, adding golf cart batteries, radar and chart plotter, etc, I'll need an excuse to try it all out. I've just been spending a bit of money upgrading my old Catalina into the twenty first century with both ships power and shore power - what were they thinking of in the 70's to leave all this off - so that now I can run my new small microwave and other goodies over a couple of days.I was at the doctor's yesterday complaining about some post operative problems with my new hip only to be told to ignore the pain and "motor on." So I can now go out and play with my boat as I watch others pack theirs away for the winter...lol!

 

[Fred Ficarra]

Rick, how about a picture of your boat.

Name too. Maybe we'll meet-up. Oh, LOL.

 

[rsn48]

Pics not quite yet

The boat still needs some TLC on the outside, but overall is in good shape. I will be more inclined to take pics of it in a year or so when more work has been done on it. I have been working on the inside mostly so things like bright work have been ignored.The name of the boat is the "leaky Cauldron" from the Harry Potter series. No one will get the title except for some 13 year old girl. The Leaky Cauldron is a pub in the Potter books where you can go in one door from the non-wizard side, and enter the wonderful magical world of wizardry through a wall at the back of the pub.The name isn't on the boat yet as I took the old one off, which was Petril - a sea going bird - but everyone asked me why I had a boat named after "gasoline."