Safety @ Sea

[bdefrond]

Given the recent Coast Guard recovery story about 45' S/V Moonshine off Block Island, and comments thereon, it looks like there are among us bluewater-savvy sailors who could exchange tips from experience, thus adding to the collective wisdom.

Let's hope more details will come out of Moonshine's skipper and crew, and let's launch the theme of Safety at Sea from there, unless one of us is moved to start on a fresh note.

Note, as many suggested, that safety at sea starts onshore during preparations through the decision to set sail.

Be well on Fair Winds. bdefrond, ASWII 32' ketch Pianissimo

 

[henkmeuzelaar]

As mentioned before, there would seem to be three major categories of factors influencing safety at sea and thereby the probability of completing a successful offshore passage, namely:

(1) technical knowledge and preparation;

(2) vessel design and construction; and

(3) mental and physical condition.

In my experience, accidents at sea almost always involve serious deficiencies in at least one -- and often two -- of these areas.

Although complementary in many ways, and to some degree overlapping, these three areas are sufficiently different that a wide-open discussion of all three of them at the same time is likely to lead to a Babylonian cacophony.

IMHO, it would be better to focus on one of these areas in this thread. Which one was foremost on your mind when you posted this important theme??

Fair winds,

Flying Dutchman

 

[sailingdog]

Umm... you're missing common sense and proper trip planning.

The crew of the s/v Moonshine left, IIRC, just before a serious winter storm was forecast. It isn't really a big surprise that they got their heads handed to them on a stick.....The storm that occurred in the New England area on Friday was forecast for several days before, and the forecast had worsened, if anything, as the storm approached. What possessed the crew of the s/v Moonshine to leave when they did is anyone's guess...but combine an imminent storm with leaving on a Friday—not a big surprise it ended the way it did IMHO.

 

[Franklin]

Which brings me to a point....

How many of us knew which web sites to get good weather information before we got into sailing? How many of us knew how complicated sailing was until we got ourselves into a big mess? How many of us knew what we can take, especially code weather, before we tried?

This is always going to happen in the sailing community. It's a fact of nature. There are some who jump into it head first, and those who test the water with their toes. You can't change mother nature (that includes human nature).

The only thing we can do is try to have a system that helps those who end up in bad situations.

Now I had to say, if I were a CG commander and somebody calls in and it's only 12' seas, there better be somebody freezing or I'm not sending anybody out there. I'd tell them "tough....welcome to sailing".

 

[sailingdog]

Which brings me to a point....

How many of us knew which web sites to get good weather information before we got into sailing? How many of us knew how complicated sailing was until we got ourselves into a big mess? How many of us knew what we can take, especially code weather, before we tried?

The problem, especially in the case of s/v Moonshine, is that it didn't require a good weather site to know the weather was rapidly heading downhill. The normal television forecasts clearly all showed that it was going to get nasty and get nasty relatively fast. These guys, IIRC, left just before a well forecast winter storm hit New England, and people are still without power from that storm. How much intelligence does it take to figure out if the state I'm leaving from is about to get clobbered, I probably should stay in port until the storm doing the clobbering has gone by.

This is always going to happen in the sailing community. It's a fact of nature. There are some who jump into it head first, and those who test the water with their toes. You can't change mother nature (that includes human nature).

The only thing we can do is try to have a system that helps those who end up in bad situations.

Now I had to say, if I were a CG commander and somebody calls in and it's only 12' seas, there better be somebody freezing or I'm not sending anybody out there. I'd tell them "tough....welcome to sailing".

If it weren't for the USCG doing their job so well, the four on s/v Moonshine would probably be getting their Darwins about now... Unfortunately, the USCG generally doesn't have the luxury of saying "You better really be in trouble or.... ". They have to go out for the really stupid ones that just don't know any better as well as the well-prepared ones who get caught out or run into bad luck.

 

[larryw]

This situation is very similar to another I see quite a lot; guy decides he wants a motorcycle. Doesn't know how to ride, never rode anything but a bicycle, yet he buys a big, heavy, powerful Harley, and before you can say "wannabebadass" he's dropped the bike and maybe hurt himself and/or someone else. Wouldn't listen when other told him to start on a smaller, lighter, less powerful bike, improve his skills, then move up. Guy wants a sailboat, doesn't want to start small and hone his skills, wants a 40something footer, and before you can say "wannabesailor..." Happens all the time.

 

[DanW9494]

Mal de Mer

seems to be the limiting factor in recent rescues. Motion sickness. It can be mild and just fatigue the crew, probably a factor for Skip Allen, or more pronounced like Ronnie who didn't use his drogue, or incapacitating for Moonshine's crew.

Crystallized ginger or ginger snaps may be good for mild weather, but who really can prepare their inner ear for breaking waves, frequent knockdowns, perpetual broaching. Our land based body is the weak link in our safety at sea.

Do you really know if you can control a little boat in a huge sea if you are dizzy, vomiting, dehydrated, and drowsy. How about a little less of those symptoms, but with side effects of antihistamines or scopalamine that interfere with your ability to think or make decisions.

I am not trying to change the conversation to prevention or treatment of sea sickness.

I am trying to point out that NASA weeds out wonderfully prepared people for this reason, and how do you know that you can function in horrible weather unless you have been there and done that.

I think very few sailors have experienced those conditions in their little sailboat. Maybe they did in the Navy or Merchant Marine service, but those ships have orders of magnitude less motion due to their size relative to the waves.

I think this has to be a primary reason for using weather windows, because you may be physically unable to reef your sails, set out your drogue, etc.. It is easy to critique the rescues and think how we would have been better prepared. But even Admiral Nelson could not leave his bed in high seas.

 

[Jentine]

I am amazed at the amount of "ink" given to the most stupid feat I have seen in decades. The simple captain and his stupid crew have one hell of a nerve to ask others to rescue them from a situation that would never have occured had the captain and crew used the common sense they were born with. There is no requirement for the Coast Guard or any towing company to risk their lives to save morons. According to the newspaper article, they were drifting southwesterly. Had they been left alone, they would have washed ashore somewhere on Long Island. They could have then called a taxi to come out in the raging snow storm to pick them up at the scene of their grounding. That would, indeed, be their just desert.

Jim

 

[Franklin]

I never get sick when sailing in the bay. I used to only get sick sailing offshore when it was rough overnight. Now I've been sick so many times that sometimes and it seems to take less each time, I get that feeling in the stomach just thinking about the rough weather.

Most of the time I'm single handed and I make it back ok and I still man the boat but I do have to take naps and sip water to keep me hydrated. Somtimes it goes away on it's own. But for soon to be voyage, I'd stocked up on the patch, which the one time I did use it, it cleared up a 3.5 days of sea sickness.

Hopefully a few offshore voyages with the patch and the feeling will go away when I think of the bad weather. Funny how the mind can play with ya.

 

[sailingdog]

Unfortunately, it doesn't take too many times getting really seasick to get conditioned into getting seasick in circumstances that wouldn't normally get you seasick. Prevention is really the best idea. One of my sailing friends tried to tough it out one too many times and now gets violently seasick because his body is "conditioned" to do so.... It's taken him about a year of "de-conditioning" his brain to get back to sailing as much as he'd like.

I never get sick when sailing in the bay. I used to only get sick sailing offshore when it was rough overnight. Now I've been sick so many times that sometimes and it seems to take less each time, I get that feeling in the stomach just thinking about the rough weather.

Most of the time I'm single handed and I make it back ok and I still man the boat but I do have to take naps and sip water to keep me hydrated. Somtimes it goes away on it's own. But for soon to be voyage, I'd stocked up on the patch, which the one time I did use it, it cleared up a 3.5 days of sea sickness.

Hopefully a few offshore voyages with the patch and the feeling will go away when I think of the bad weather. Funny how the mind can play with ya.