How does one rig the lines (straps) that one should clip your safety harness to in order not to fall overboard? I have seen some layouts but am afraid that if one fell overboard you would be virtually keelhauled. I want to have a layout so that my crew (wife) feels confident to go forward to reef or douse a sail. She and I both have Sospenders with harness.
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Jacklines.
Stephen: What you are looking for are Jacklines. They are made from high strength nylon web. They usually attach to the bow cleat and to another cleat on the stern. I would have to agree with you that their is the possibility that one would be could be dragged through the water. It advantage is that you know where your victim is located. This may not be the case if they fall overboard. I have also seen a method where the owner has attached life vinyl coated line cable to the cabin. This would provide less movement of the for deck, so it would not be my choice.
Stephen: What you are looking for are Jacklines. They are made from high strength nylon web. They usually attach to the bow cleat and to another cleat on the stern. I would have to agree with you that their is the possibility that one would be could be dragged through the water. It advantage is that you know where your victim is located. This may not be the case if they fall overboard. I have also seen a method where the owner has attached life vinyl coated line cable to the cabin. This would provide less movement of the for deck, so it would not be my choice.
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David
Stephen
The jacklines are usually attached to padeyes not cleats. The tether from the jackline to the harness should have a length that keeps you from being dragged in the water. That is the purpose of correctly installed jacklines.
The jacklines are usually attached to padeyes not cleats. The tether from the jackline to the harness should have a length that keeps you from being dragged in the water. That is the purpose of correctly installed jacklines.
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Mark
What we do?
We have different systems on our yachts however on the 260 we run Nylon webbing attached to the mainsheet U bolt on the cockpit floor up and around the mast and back to the U bolt again. Have not had anyone go over yet but I figure this is the best solution. I would not recommend the cleats at all. With the line going around the mast it means you can clip on and reach the bow.. It also means a shorter jackstay so less stretch.
We have different systems on our yachts however on the 260 we run Nylon webbing attached to the mainsheet U bolt on the cockpit floor up and around the mast and back to the U bolt again. Have not had anyone go over yet but I figure this is the best solution. I would not recommend the cleats at all. With the line going around the mast it means you can clip on and reach the bow.. It also means a shorter jackstay so less stretch.
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Terry
Hi Stephen, most articles that I've read...
suggest that you install two jack lines, port and starboard between a bow cleat and stern cleat. In practice the experienced opinions tell you to always clip onto the windward jack line to reduce the chance of being "keel hauled". Terry
suggest that you install two jack lines, port and starboard between a bow cleat and stern cleat. In practice the experienced opinions tell you to always clip onto the windward jack line to reduce the chance of being "keel hauled". Terry
Why wouldn't one use the cleats?
I am curious why some have suggested that you do NOT use the cleats. They are reinforced at some of strongest attachment points on the boat. The mfg of the jack lines also recommend either the cleats or a pad eye. If you do some research, there are complaints with the webbing that it does stretch. Some article that I have reviewed recommend that you soak the lines in water and then attach them at the bow & stern attachment point. Stephens concerns are justified!
I am curious why some have suggested that you do NOT use the cleats. They are reinforced at some of strongest attachment points on the boat. The mfg of the jack lines also recommend either the cleats or a pad eye. If you do some research, there are complaints with the webbing that it does stretch. Some article that I have reviewed recommend that you soak the lines in water and then attach them at the bow & stern attachment point. Stephens concerns are justified!
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David
Windward
attaching of the harness tether is a good point Terry. Cleats are for docking lines, fenders, running rigging, etc Steve. Padeyes, properly installed, not only free up cleats but also place the jacklines where you want them.
attaching of the harness tether is a good point Terry. Cleats are for docking lines, fenders, running rigging, etc Steve. Padeyes, properly installed, not only free up cleats but also place the jacklines where you want them.
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Mickey and Debbie McHugh
Clip Forward, Cleat Aft
The 45 foot jacklines I got at WM have a large S/S clip on one end, so that clips to the forward most perforation (hole) in the toetail, and then I make the aft end fast to a stern cleat. This way, I can get them really tight and they lay right down on the flat deck so less chance of tripping on them. Don't use a regular line, since you might fall if you step on it and it rolls. (decks should always be kept as clear as possible) Install a padeye forward if you don't have a perforated toerail or other solid attachment point, but DO use the aft cleat. The web around the cleat stays tight and lays flat, so the stern cleat is still very usable if you need to put a line on top of it. If both ends have a clip, then it would be difficult to get/keep your jacklines tight. Whatever forward attachment point you use, be sure it allows you can go as far forward as you might be required to go. I wouldn't want to re-clip while on the bow.
The 45 foot jacklines I got at WM have a large S/S clip on one end, so that clips to the forward most perforation (hole) in the toetail, and then I make the aft end fast to a stern cleat. This way, I can get them really tight and they lay right down on the flat deck so less chance of tripping on them. Don't use a regular line, since you might fall if you step on it and it rolls. (decks should always be kept as clear as possible) Install a padeye forward if you don't have a perforated toerail or other solid attachment point, but DO use the aft cleat. The web around the cleat stays tight and lays flat, so the stern cleat is still very usable if you need to put a line on top of it. If both ends have a clip, then it would be difficult to get/keep your jacklines tight. Whatever forward attachment point you use, be sure it allows you can go as far forward as you might be required to go. I wouldn't want to re-clip while on the bow.
why "jacklines"
Any particular reason why we have to use the webbing-type lines that are marketed as ad hoc "jacklines"? Why not just extra-low-stretch yacht braid? Forgive the stupidity of this question but I am considering rigging a boat with harness gear only for the first time, and I have no experience making decisions about this part. JC
Any particular reason why we have to use the webbing-type lines that are marketed as ad hoc "jacklines"? Why not just extra-low-stretch yacht braid? Forgive the stupidity of this question but I am considering rigging a boat with harness gear only for the first time, and I have no experience making decisions about this part. JC
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Chuck Wayne
jacklines
Use the Jacklines-not only are they very high strength, but they lie flat on the deck-a round line is a slipping hazard if someone steps on it- usually, people clip on the bow and tie off the bitter end on an aft cleat- make sure that the aft end is inboard enough so that if someone is tethered and washes aft, they stay on the boat when they come to the end of their tether. it's really hard to recover someone if they go over the stern
Use the Jacklines-not only are they very high strength, but they lie flat on the deck-a round line is a slipping hazard if someone steps on it- usually, people clip on the bow and tie off the bitter end on an aft cleat- make sure that the aft end is inboard enough so that if someone is tethered and washes aft, they stay on the boat when they come to the end of their tether. it's really hard to recover someone if they go over the stern
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Stephen Ord
Harness Length
Why is then that they make the Line from your harness so long? Most I have seen are about 6 - 10 feet. In order to avaoid being swept over the Jackline should stop 10 feet from the stern. Right?
Why is then that they make the Line from your harness so long? Most I have seen are about 6 - 10 feet. In order to avaoid being swept over the Jackline should stop 10 feet from the stern. Right?
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Colin
I like shorter tethers.
I plan on experimenting with shorter tethers next time I use them. I use nylon webbing for the jack line and find it stretches and don't like the idea of plasic covered wire rope. I think with a 2' long tether on a correctly positioned jack line I could reach every where on my deck.
I plan on experimenting with shorter tethers next time I use them. I use nylon webbing for the jack line and find it stretches and don't like the idea of plasic covered wire rope. I think with a 2' long tether on a correctly positioned jack line I could reach every where on my deck.
Need to clip on in the cockpit.
Stephen: You need to clip on in the cockpit and be able to steer the boat and go to the bow. You need to be able to get to the jib and the main sail. All of this needs to be done without unclipping from your jacklines. The majority of the tethers are about 6' long. This pretty much dictates that you either have a double tether (two clips if you want the jack lines to stop at the cockpit) or have the lines run close to the stern.
Stephen: You need to clip on in the cockpit and be able to steer the boat and go to the bow. You need to be able to get to the jib and the main sail. All of this needs to be done without unclipping from your jacklines. The majority of the tethers are about 6' long. This pretty much dictates that you either have a double tether (two clips if you want the jack lines to stop at the cockpit) or have the lines run close to the stern.
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Bruce Mulford
What about running the jackline.....
From a bow cleat aft right down the center of my H410 to the top of the arch, directly over the helm. With a 6' tether it seems like I could clip on as I leave the cabin, get to the wheel, but be safe from going very far over the side (13'10" beam). Only problem I can think of is in going to the bow I have to get around the inner shroud, and the mast depending on which side of the mast the line is on. This could probably be dealt with with a double clip on the tether. The 410 is brand new and I have the harness, tether and web jackline but am not sure how best to hook it up. Comments and ideas welcome.
From a bow cleat aft right down the center of my H410 to the top of the arch, directly over the helm. With a 6' tether it seems like I could clip on as I leave the cabin, get to the wheel, but be safe from going very far over the side (13'10" beam). Only problem I can think of is in going to the bow I have to get around the inner shroud, and the mast depending on which side of the mast the line is on. This could probably be dealt with with a double clip on the tether. The 410 is brand new and I have the harness, tether and web jackline but am not sure how best to hook it up. Comments and ideas welcome.
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Mark F. Arena
How I plan to get my sorry butt back on the boat.
Nobody has addressed my biggest fear re this issue-so I will: I sail Lake Erie solo quite a bit, and have become concerned about reentering the boat if trapped at either port or starboard stern (I picture me OB, sliding back along a jack line, ending up at either rear corner of the boat, in the H2O<--brrrr). Proposed solution: I am thinking of installing single steps at each corner, mounted on the corner rails, with a tether hanging down on each side to just above H2O level. OB?-NP-tug your tether, raise your sorry self into the boat, open beer. Any comments/criticism before I proceed?
Nobody has addressed my biggest fear re this issue-so I will: I sail Lake Erie solo quite a bit, and have become concerned about reentering the boat if trapped at either port or starboard stern (I picture me OB, sliding back along a jack line, ending up at either rear corner of the boat, in the H2O<--brrrr). Proposed solution: I am thinking of installing single steps at each corner, mounted on the corner rails, with a tether hanging down on each side to just above H2O level. OB?-NP-tug your tether, raise your sorry self into the boat, open beer. Any comments/criticism before I proceed?
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David Foster
Docklines as jacklines on h27
We attach 25' docklines to each of our two bow and stern cleats. On departing the dock, while motoring out of the marina, we tie the docklines that were in use into a jackline. First we put a bowline loop in the end of the bow line around a bight (loop) of the stern line. we then haul on the stern line around the stern cleat to tension the line, and tie it off on the cleat. The unused docklines on the other side are already made up in this way. This keeps the docklines on deck, but out of the way while underway. When returning to port, we just undo the lines as required, once we are out of the seaway. At anchor/mooring, they stay in place. While the round lines could be a tripping hazard, they do line right against the cabin on our '77 h27, and have not caused a problem yet. The Admiral comments that we are always mangaing the tether along the jackline when moving along it, so it's unlikely to step on it. Our decks have good width (the shrouds attach outboard along the toerail), and against the cabin roof is not a natural foot placement. The bowline knot makes a natural stop against being swept too far aft. It's clear with our 6 foot tethers that a fall over the lifelines would still leave one dragging in the water. I have hooked on to the jackline on the opposite side to prevent this while single handing in five footers. In any case, overboard and attached is a whole lot better than overboard and adrift! By the way, the same system worked just fine on the modern h340 we chartered this summer in the North Channel. Our standard MOB recovery is to move the vang (on snap shackles) to the end of the boom, and attach it to the harness, or lifesling to provide a 4 fold advantage in lifting one of us back onboard. We also have a pad eye in the cockpit to clip on there. You can get outside the lifelines, but not in the water from this point, and we spend 95% of our heavy weather time hooked up there. (Of course, the other 5% is the most hazardous time when going forward.) David Lady Lillie
We attach 25' docklines to each of our two bow and stern cleats. On departing the dock, while motoring out of the marina, we tie the docklines that were in use into a jackline. First we put a bowline loop in the end of the bow line around a bight (loop) of the stern line. we then haul on the stern line around the stern cleat to tension the line, and tie it off on the cleat. The unused docklines on the other side are already made up in this way. This keeps the docklines on deck, but out of the way while underway. When returning to port, we just undo the lines as required, once we are out of the seaway. At anchor/mooring, they stay in place. While the round lines could be a tripping hazard, they do line right against the cabin on our '77 h27, and have not caused a problem yet. The Admiral comments that we are always mangaing the tether along the jackline when moving along it, so it's unlikely to step on it. Our decks have good width (the shrouds attach outboard along the toerail), and against the cabin roof is not a natural foot placement. The bowline knot makes a natural stop against being swept too far aft. It's clear with our 6 foot tethers that a fall over the lifelines would still leave one dragging in the water. I have hooked on to the jackline on the opposite side to prevent this while single handing in five footers. In any case, overboard and attached is a whole lot better than overboard and adrift! By the way, the same system worked just fine on the modern h340 we chartered this summer in the North Channel. Our standard MOB recovery is to move the vang (on snap shackles) to the end of the boom, and attach it to the harness, or lifesling to provide a 4 fold advantage in lifting one of us back onboard. We also have a pad eye in the cockpit to clip on there. You can get outside the lifelines, but not in the water from this point, and we spend 95% of our heavy weather time hooked up there. (Of course, the other 5% is the most hazardous time when going forward.) David Lady Lillie
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David
Mark
I guess you didn't read all the posts. It was suggested that the tether be short enough to not allow you to go overboard.
I guess you didn't read all the posts. It was suggested that the tether be short enough to not allow you to go overboard.
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Clyde
Jack Line use
The purpose of the Jack Lines and a safety harness is to prevent the sailboat from sailing away without you if you happen to fall overboard. The lifelines and/or safety netting on the sailboat’s stanchion is the last line of defense to keep you in the boat. Most of the times when sailors fall over board, they fall over the lifelines and not under them. Some sailors have added a third lifeline or safety netting to decrease the chance of sliding under the lifelines. If you need to use a safety harness attached to the Jack lines, then the harness line needs to be long enough to allow you free movement. Some sailors have talked about shortening the length of the harness safety line to keep them in the boat, but shortening the line may increase your chances of being pulled and losing your balance by the safety harness as you move forward if it is too short. If you are using the Jack lines when sailing solo, then by all means add some sort of rope ladder or step to help you re-entering the sailboat from the stern. The big danger when using the Jack line is falling under the lifelines and being hung up on a stanchion at the bow and having no way to re-enter the boat. That’s the reason most solo sailors add netting or a third lifeline to ensure that if you fall overboard, you do not fall under the lifelines and get caught up forward on a stanchion. Another thing is that the Jack line must be continuous from the bow to the stern. If you have it segmented, than you might again be hung up forward away from your ladder at the stern. And if you use the Jack line on the opposite side, then the same danger of being hung up and dangling forward and away from the rope ladder or step at the stern of the boat if you are sailing solo. Remember if you fall overboard using a safety harness and Jack line, you must drift to the stern of the boat and re-enter the boat at the stern using a rope ladder or step, unless you are physically able to haul yourself before than by using just the web harness line. Dock lines are not rated as a life safety device. You should use Jack lines that approved by the Offshore Racing Council (ORC) as a life safety device. These are just one sailor’s opinion, how you use Jack line if up to you. Fair Winds. Clyde
The purpose of the Jack Lines and a safety harness is to prevent the sailboat from sailing away without you if you happen to fall overboard. The lifelines and/or safety netting on the sailboat’s stanchion is the last line of defense to keep you in the boat. Most of the times when sailors fall over board, they fall over the lifelines and not under them. Some sailors have added a third lifeline or safety netting to decrease the chance of sliding under the lifelines. If you need to use a safety harness attached to the Jack lines, then the harness line needs to be long enough to allow you free movement. Some sailors have talked about shortening the length of the harness safety line to keep them in the boat, but shortening the line may increase your chances of being pulled and losing your balance by the safety harness as you move forward if it is too short. If you are using the Jack lines when sailing solo, then by all means add some sort of rope ladder or step to help you re-entering the sailboat from the stern. The big danger when using the Jack line is falling under the lifelines and being hung up on a stanchion at the bow and having no way to re-enter the boat. That’s the reason most solo sailors add netting or a third lifeline to ensure that if you fall overboard, you do not fall under the lifelines and get caught up forward on a stanchion. Another thing is that the Jack line must be continuous from the bow to the stern. If you have it segmented, than you might again be hung up forward away from your ladder at the stern. And if you use the Jack line on the opposite side, then the same danger of being hung up and dangling forward and away from the rope ladder or step at the stern of the boat if you are sailing solo. Remember if you fall overboard using a safety harness and Jack line, you must drift to the stern of the boat and re-enter the boat at the stern using a rope ladder or step, unless you are physically able to haul yourself before than by using just the web harness line. Dock lines are not rated as a life safety device. You should use Jack lines that approved by the Offshore Racing Council (ORC) as a life safety device. These are just one sailor’s opinion, how you use Jack line if up to you. Fair Winds. Clyde
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Clyde
Jack Line use cont.
If you are sailing short handed, i.e. with only one other crewmember, then whenever someone needs to leave the cockpit and go forward, the other crewmember must be in the cockpit. The crewmember in the cockpit prepares a man overboard retrieval sling that is ready to be deployed. If the crewmember up forward should fall overboard, the crewmember in the cockpit must not leave the cockpit. The second crewmember must heave-to and performs a MOB. The crewmember that falls overboard must swim; push-off the side of the hull if the sailboat is heeled over and does whatever it takes to get to the stern of the sailboat. If the second crewmember leaves the cockpit and goes to the aid of the first crewmember up forward, the possibility that both crewmembers being hung up forward and being lost is greatly increased. Fair Winds. Clyde
If you are sailing short handed, i.e. with only one other crewmember, then whenever someone needs to leave the cockpit and go forward, the other crewmember must be in the cockpit. The crewmember in the cockpit prepares a man overboard retrieval sling that is ready to be deployed. If the crewmember up forward should fall overboard, the crewmember in the cockpit must not leave the cockpit. The second crewmember must heave-to and performs a MOB. The crewmember that falls overboard must swim; push-off the side of the hull if the sailboat is heeled over and does whatever it takes to get to the stern of the sailboat. If the second crewmember leaves the cockpit and goes to the aid of the first crewmember up forward, the possibility that both crewmembers being hung up forward and being lost is greatly increased. Fair Winds. Clyde
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Stephen Ord
The best explanation I have seen yet
Clyde - Thank you for the best explanation of why the Jacklines are set up as most books describe but do not explain why. I would think the only problem would be the stanchions getting in the way.
Clyde - Thank you for the best explanation of why the Jacklines are set up as most books describe but do not explain why. I would think the only problem would be the stanchions getting in the way.
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