We had our 1993 Hunter 23.5 out for the first time this weekend. At one point, we were heeled over to 30 degrees (measured by clinometer) and this scared my wife so much I had to drop the sails and motor in. She has never been on a sailboat before and was already a little nervous before this incident occurred. I am wondering what is considered to be a maximum "safe" angle of heel for this boat. I don't think we were anywhere close to flipping but I am new at sailing too, so I really don't know. I am also wondering the correct procedure to correct excessive heeling. What I did when it heeled too much was steer a little into the wind and ease the mainsheet. This stood the boat up instantly. I had the ballast tank full and the centerboard and rudder were all the way down. We were both sitting on the high side of the cockpit. I don't want my wife to be afraid of sailing and am looking for some advice. Thanks.
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Re: Heeling
A 30 degree heel is not going to flip your boat, but it's also not the way to sail efficiently. If the wind is gusting and you are new to sailing you will need to sail with the mainsheet in hand. Heading up and reducing mainsheet tension was the correct thing to do. A reef in your main would also have made controling the boat that much easier. I suggest that you shorten sail early (maybe 12kts) and don't take your wife sailing in gusty conditions until you have mastered handeling the boat in heavier air alone, then both of you will feel more at ease.
A 30 degree heel is not going to flip your boat, but it's also not the way to sail efficiently. If the wind is gusting and you are new to sailing you will need to sail with the mainsheet in hand. Heading up and reducing mainsheet tension was the correct thing to do. A reef in your main would also have made controling the boat that much easier. I suggest that you shorten sail early (maybe 12kts) and don't take your wife sailing in gusty conditions until you have mastered handeling the boat in heavier air alone, then both of you will feel more at ease.
15-20 degrees max
Anything above 15-20 degrees adds stress to your rig and the boat is overpowered.More heal does not mean faster sailing. In constant heavy wind reef and in gusting conditions your already doing the right thing by stearing up or easing the main. Have fun.
Anything above 15-20 degrees adds stress to your rig and the boat is overpowered.More heal does not mean faster sailing. In constant heavy wind reef and in gusting conditions your already doing the right thing by stearing up or easing the main. Have fun.
Alan
Alan... Very good sensible advise. Rick, I don't think putting a frightened woman at the helm would do a lot to calm her nerves!
Alan... Very good sensible advise. Rick, I don't think putting a frightened woman at the helm would do a lot to calm her nerves!
Brian, hear is my advice
I sailed a 21 ft boat for many year. The rudder does not always come out of the water. If there are waves of wake present you will take water over the side making her more scared. The main way to reduce heel is to reef the sails. Reef early when you except strong wind. You will find that a reefed boat is sometimes faster than one that is not reefed because of hull length. If you wife is scared release the main sheet until she feels safe! Droop!
I sailed a 21 ft boat for many year. The rudder does not always come out of the water. If there are waves of wake present you will take water over the side making her more scared. The main way to reduce heel is to reef the sails. Reef early when you except strong wind. You will find that a reefed boat is sometimes faster than one that is not reefed because of hull length. If you wife is scared release the main sheet until she feels safe! Droop!
Good advice
from everyone so far. You will need to ease your wife into sailing. The two of you can learn together if her interest is enough that she wants to join you in the learning process. Let her try her hand at the tiller on days with easy breezes, or when you are motoring to give her the feel of it. Next, heeling much more than 15 degrees is not efficient as you have been told. At that angle, the keel is giving you some lift. There are experts that know more about this than I do. Further, when the water is beginning to show white caps, it is time to take some of your rags out of the air. Start by reducing the sail area of the main by reefing, but do yourself a favor and buy a book on sail trim. There is a Don something that has appeared on this site that has an excellent book on sail trim apropriate to various weather conditions. I know I have repeated much of everything that has been offered. I have a timid wife and have learned when it is fun for me it is not fun for her. You've got to look after the Admiral. Good sailing.
from everyone so far. You will need to ease your wife into sailing. The two of you can learn together if her interest is enough that she wants to join you in the learning process. Let her try her hand at the tiller on days with easy breezes, or when you are motoring to give her the feel of it. Next, heeling much more than 15 degrees is not efficient as you have been told. At that angle, the keel is giving you some lift. There are experts that know more about this than I do. Further, when the water is beginning to show white caps, it is time to take some of your rags out of the air. Start by reducing the sail area of the main by reefing, but do yourself a favor and buy a book on sail trim. There is a Don something that has appeared on this site that has an excellent book on sail trim apropriate to various weather conditions. I know I have repeated much of everything that has been offered. I have a timid wife and have learned when it is fun for me it is not fun for her. You've got to look after the Admiral. Good sailing.
don't scare her
Hello, If you want your wife to sail with you, don't scare her. Last year we (me, wife, 3 kids under 10) bought a Catalina 22. I didn't know anything about sailing. I sailed with a friend the first time to get some experience, then my wife and I took a short sailing course. Out for the first time on our boat we were careful to pick gentle conditions (5-10 kts wind). I read lots of books, and tried to put what I read into practice. For the first few months, whenever the boat heeled more than 15 degrees my wife (and 2 kids, the third one loved it) would be very uncomfortable and wanted the boat to heel less. I explained that the boat could not flip over and not to worry, but it didn't help. My wife refused to handle the tiller in conditions like that. On the C22 the main sheet is all the way aft, so she could not handle that either. Anyway, when the boat would heel more than 15 I could pop the main sheet out of the cam cleat, let the main out and let the boat come back upright. After some time she stopped being nervous (and the kids picked up her feelings) about heeling. This year, with a bigger boat, she doesn't mind heeling 20 degrees. When it gets to 30 she is unhappy, but not nervous. When it gets over 30 *I* get nervous! So pick your first days carefully, be prepared to let the main out quickly (if you as the helmsman can reach it), shorten sail if it gets windy when you're out there (roll up the headsail if you can, it's quick, easy, and effective, then practice reefing the main), and write back in 6 months. Good luck and enjoy, Barry
Hello, If you want your wife to sail with you, don't scare her. Last year we (me, wife, 3 kids under 10) bought a Catalina 22. I didn't know anything about sailing. I sailed with a friend the first time to get some experience, then my wife and I took a short sailing course. Out for the first time on our boat we were careful to pick gentle conditions (5-10 kts wind). I read lots of books, and tried to put what I read into practice. For the first few months, whenever the boat heeled more than 15 degrees my wife (and 2 kids, the third one loved it) would be very uncomfortable and wanted the boat to heel less. I explained that the boat could not flip over and not to worry, but it didn't help. My wife refused to handle the tiller in conditions like that. On the C22 the main sheet is all the way aft, so she could not handle that either. Anyway, when the boat would heel more than 15 I could pop the main sheet out of the cam cleat, let the main out and let the boat come back upright. After some time she stopped being nervous (and the kids picked up her feelings) about heeling. This year, with a bigger boat, she doesn't mind heeling 20 degrees. When it gets to 30 she is unhappy, but not nervous. When it gets over 30 *I* get nervous! So pick your first days carefully, be prepared to let the main out quickly (if you as the helmsman can reach it), shorten sail if it gets windy when you're out there (roll up the headsail if you can, it's quick, easy, and effective, then practice reefing the main), and write back in 6 months. Good luck and enjoy, Barry
everyone reacts differently
we have four children(now grown) One girl and one boy loved sailing and liked the rail in the water. One girl loved to sit to the leeward and put her hair in the water when we were heeled. The other girl was terrified. Same with the boys but the scared one won't admit fear. My wife at first didn't like heeling now when she is at the helm she tends to heel more than I. The best thing that I ever did for the wife was to give her the helm. At first she would scream if we heeled too much wanting me to take over. Now she handles the boat in all conditions. Even the terrified daughter likes to sail now even though she is still frightened if it gets too rough. Heeling is a lot of fun but as others have noted it doesn't give you the most speed and may strain the rigging and sails.
we have four children(now grown) One girl and one boy loved sailing and liked the rail in the water. One girl loved to sit to the leeward and put her hair in the water when we were heeled. The other girl was terrified. Same with the boys but the scared one won't admit fear. My wife at first didn't like heeling now when she is at the helm she tends to heel more than I. The best thing that I ever did for the wife was to give her the helm. At first she would scream if we heeled too much wanting me to take over. Now she handles the boat in all conditions. Even the terrified daughter likes to sail now even though she is still frightened if it gets too rough. Heeling is a lot of fun but as others have noted it doesn't give you the most speed and may strain the rigging and sails.
All sound advice, when I took my wife out on
windy days I would ease into it by first running with just the main for a while with her at the helm. When comfortable I would suggest a little jib and would unfurl to about 100%, when she was good with that we would finish unfurling and everything was fine. She started out not wanting to go much over 2.5 Kts. and a few months later she's not happy at less than 4.5 She had sailed small centerboard boats all her life (her dad raced Thistles) but started as hiking ballast and had been capsized a couple times, took a while to develop confidence in the boat and me.
windy days I would ease into it by first running with just the main for a while with her at the helm. When comfortable I would suggest a little jib and would unfurl to about 100%, when she was good with that we would finish unfurling and everything was fine. She started out not wanting to go much over 2.5 Kts. and a few months later she's not happy at less than 4.5 She had sailed small centerboard boats all her life (her dad raced Thistles) but started as hiking ballast and had been capsized a couple times, took a while to develop confidence in the boat and me.
Hunter 23.5
I owned a '87 Hunter 23.5 and it was a handful under heavy wind conditions. The other boats that I have owned would round up if you pushed it to its limits. The Hunter tended to do the opposite and you had a unintentional jibe on your hands if you were not careful. Mine had a fixed keel but if yours has a centerboard, make sure it is down. In heavy conditions you can turtle top a small boat if your centerboard is retracted. With that boat learn to use your reefing system and use it in strong wind conditions.
I owned a '87 Hunter 23.5 and it was a handful under heavy wind conditions. The other boats that I have owned would round up if you pushed it to its limits. The Hunter tended to do the opposite and you had a unintentional jibe on your hands if you were not careful. Mine had a fixed keel but if yours has a centerboard, make sure it is down. In heavy conditions you can turtle top a small boat if your centerboard is retracted. With that boat learn to use your reefing system and use it in strong wind conditions.
Dip her hair in the water!
Admittedly this is a little extreme, not for everyone, and I would only intentionally do it sailing in lakes. But once you realize that ballasted monohulls are almost "unflippable" it can allow a much more relaxed manner towards heeling. Realizing that excessive heel hinders performance...,we hit heels of 40-45 quite a bit (get those windows in the water!), it is, for us, part of the fun.
Admittedly this is a little extreme, not for everyone, and I would only intentionally do it sailing in lakes. But once you realize that ballasted monohulls are almost "unflippable" it can allow a much more relaxed manner towards heeling. Realizing that excessive heel hinders performance...,we hit heels of 40-45 quite a bit (get those windows in the water!), it is, for us, part of the fun.
Wife at the helm
Our 27' Starwind has a wheel and with the jib cleated behind the bimini post and the main sheet cam cleat forward of the pedestal, it is too difficult for me to handle sheets and the helm simultaneously during windy conditions. Sailing is new to my wife this summer, so the power that the wind generates and the heeling effect was a shock to her, understandably. When it is windy, we found it best that she take the helm and I man the sheets, because she can respond a lot more quickly when I say simple things like "head up a bit" or "bear off". I never want her to respond too drastically and she now knows that we can maintain a comfortable angle of heel if we work together. She hasn't learned much about the sail trim yet, and her response to gusts is still too slow, so that's why I think we are safer and my wife is more comfortable, with me handling the sails. The funny part is, she gets the biggest kick when we get the highest speed reading when she is at the helm. She takes all the credit even though it's a team effort! ;D
Our 27' Starwind has a wheel and with the jib cleated behind the bimini post and the main sheet cam cleat forward of the pedestal, it is too difficult for me to handle sheets and the helm simultaneously during windy conditions. Sailing is new to my wife this summer, so the power that the wind generates and the heeling effect was a shock to her, understandably. When it is windy, we found it best that she take the helm and I man the sheets, because she can respond a lot more quickly when I say simple things like "head up a bit" or "bear off". I never want her to respond too drastically and she now knows that we can maintain a comfortable angle of heel if we work together. She hasn't learned much about the sail trim yet, and her response to gusts is still too slow, so that's why I think we are safer and my wife is more comfortable, with me handling the sails. The funny part is, she gets the biggest kick when we get the highest speed reading when she is at the helm. She takes all the credit even though it's a team effort! ;D
I speak for experience
Do whatever you can not to scare your wife. If you do she will not like sailing and she will try to get you to do other things other than sailing that she wants to do. You have a little boat that is tender in windy conditions. If you want to sail in windy conditions do it alone if your wife does not like it or get a heavier boat. There are classes for women only that teach sailing, pay to have her go. They will get her confidence up. Then sail in light wind conditions or get a boat that sails well in heavy wind. If your sailing your boat in windy conditions keep a shrp eye on the surface of the water and you can see the wind coming across the water. Keep a hand on the mainsail sheet in condtions like this so you can ease the sheets when needed to keep the boat upright. Any boat will sail better upright, there is no benifit to putting a boat over anywhere near 30 deg. Do not ever scare your wife again or you will pay for it in the long run.
Do whatever you can not to scare your wife. If you do she will not like sailing and she will try to get you to do other things other than sailing that she wants to do. You have a little boat that is tender in windy conditions. If you want to sail in windy conditions do it alone if your wife does not like it or get a heavier boat. There are classes for women only that teach sailing, pay to have her go. They will get her confidence up. Then sail in light wind conditions or get a boat that sails well in heavy wind. If your sailing your boat in windy conditions keep a shrp eye on the surface of the water and you can see the wind coming across the water. Keep a hand on the mainsail sheet in condtions like this so you can ease the sheets when needed to keep the boat upright. Any boat will sail better upright, there is no benifit to putting a boat over anywhere near 30 deg. Do not ever scare your wife again or you will pay for it in the long run.
The best move we ever made was
For both of us to take sailing lessons. I had sailed for years but my wife was a total novice. We both took the Basic Coastal Cruising class from CYA and are now certified as skippers. It was a huge benefit. She has total confidence in her abilities and neither of us have to worry if something incapaciates the other. Either of us are capable of handling the boat. For me the plus was to actually practice the maneuvers you read about, heaving to, man overboard, power maneuvers, docking etc. An added bonus was that since we both took the course from the same person, we both speak the same language. I used to say "Sheet in the Main" She says "Harden the Main" Now we both say "Harden the Main" and we know exactly what we mean. Its a small thing but critical in big wind etc. I would reccomend that if you take classes that you not take them together so that any tendancy to take over by either of you is removed. Just my two cents worth. David
For both of us to take sailing lessons. I had sailed for years but my wife was a total novice. We both took the Basic Coastal Cruising class from CYA and are now certified as skippers. It was a huge benefit. She has total confidence in her abilities and neither of us have to worry if something incapaciates the other. Either of us are capable of handling the boat. For me the plus was to actually practice the maneuvers you read about, heaving to, man overboard, power maneuvers, docking etc. An added bonus was that since we both took the course from the same person, we both speak the same language. I used to say "Sheet in the Main" She says "Harden the Main" Now we both say "Harden the Main" and we know exactly what we mean. Its a small thing but critical in big wind etc. I would reccomend that if you take classes that you not take them together so that any tendancy to take over by either of you is removed. Just my two cents worth. David
Thanks alot everyone
I really appreciate all the great advice. I think that part of the problem was that my wife had no confidence in my ability to handle the boat (nor should she). She says that she will feel better after I have some sailing experience. So I am going to take a friend of mine out to teach me, he's a guru. I hope that a combination of all ideas presented here will help my wife feel comfortable on the boat. I guess I really should have reefed the main, but I have never done that before so I am going to have to figure out how that works. Thanks again everyone.
I really appreciate all the great advice. I think that part of the problem was that my wife had no confidence in my ability to handle the boat (nor should she). She says that she will feel better after I have some sailing experience. So I am going to take a friend of mine out to teach me, he's a guru. I hope that a combination of all ideas presented here will help my wife feel comfortable on the boat. I guess I really should have reefed the main, but I have never done that before so I am going to have to figure out how that works. Thanks again everyone.
Take lessons TOGETHER
reread David's post. You need to do it together or else later on you'll b teaching her, and you know what they say about teaching your wife to drive.... Stu
reread David's post. You need to do it together or else later on you'll b teaching her, and you know what they say about teaching your wife to drive.... Stu
Together but apart
You both need to take lessons but I would recommend taking them at different times. Some may disagree but the man will tend to take over during the lessons. Our instructor told usthis and I have heard it from other instructors. If you and your wife take lessons from the same person you get the same learnings in your own way.
You both need to take lessons but I would recommend taking them at different times. Some may disagree but the man will tend to take over during the lessons. Our instructor told usthis and I have heard it from other instructors. If you and your wife take lessons from the same person you get the same learnings in your own way.
Further
Even though I had been sailing since I was 14, I still took the basic class. Yes some of it was very basic review but lots of it was very helpful. If you have not sailed much before you owe it to yourself and to the safety of those that will sail with you to get some professional training. Sailing friends are good but they will have bad habits, just like in driving. Their habits may not have tripped them up but they they may trip you up as you have less experience and therefore are less aware of potential dangers. Not a commentary on your abilities just a fact of life. ASA is likely a good place to start for those in the US. Again, my 2 cents worth. David
Even though I had been sailing since I was 14, I still took the basic class. Yes some of it was very basic review but lots of it was very helpful. If you have not sailed much before you owe it to yourself and to the safety of those that will sail with you to get some professional training. Sailing friends are good but they will have bad habits, just like in driving. Their habits may not have tripped them up but they they may trip you up as you have less experience and therefore are less aware of potential dangers. Not a commentary on your abilities just a fact of life. ASA is likely a good place to start for those in the US. Again, my 2 cents worth. David
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