S2 6.8 Exciter Swing keel is stuck up.

[Nick6.8Exciter]

Hi all.

This is my first post about my first sailboat. I purchased an S2 6.8 recently. It is a project boat. I did not spend much money for it. It sails well and is dry as long as it does not rain, however I have one major issue. I can not get the centerboard to drop. To make matters worse I broke the cable when I tried to unstick it by lifting it higher than it was willing to go. So now I have a stuck keel with no cable to support it. My investigation into this issue has revealed that the keel is between 5 and 6 hundred pounds.

I want to get it down, but I do not want to spend alot of money on the process. I have a place I can careen the boat which I plan to do very soon. I am going to paint the bottom while careened as well as, hopefully, get the keel down. I am looking for any advice or considerations I may not have considered yet. I have considered the danger to me and the boat of dropping that big hunk of iron. I am hoping by careening it to mitagate that danger.

Anyway, has anyone dealt with this issue before and have any advice for a new S2 owner. All tidbits of information will be greatly appreciated.

 

["SevenSundays"]

Do you have a trailer for this boat?

 

[Nick6.8Exciter]

No trailer. My goal is to accomplish this task without taking the boat out of the water. I have a place I can careen the boat where the keel will be pointing toward a boat dock about 20 feet away. There is a 47 foot boat in a slip there with a giant winch. I have access to the boat and the winch. I am considering how I might be able to use that winch to pull the keel down but of course I don't want to break anything. Everything at this point is in the planning stage.

 

[BobM]

I'd really advise you to pull the boat and fix it right. If you lose the centerboard you are just going to have a big plastic paperweight, as a few owners on here might be able to tell you. I have tried to help at least one person find a new ceterboard after his was lost and it hasn't been easy to say the least.

Chances are you have a fair amount of rust or growth holding the ceterboard in the slot and need to clean it out to free up the board. At which point you will need some sort of strap to hold the board up and relaunch the boat so your now dropped keel isn't hanging down. You are better off fixing the pendant.

Your boat really wasn't made to be careened and doing so might just destroy the hull.

 

[Nick6.8Exciter]

Thanks Bob. All your points are duely noted. I don't doubt for a moment that you give sage advice however I only spent $500 for this boat. I don't have a great deal of money to spend on fixing it up and I am looking for ways to get stuff done on the cheap. That said, I do want to fix this boat up and I do not want to damage it. Losing the centerboard is not really an issue if I go through with the careening. I am concerned about damaging the hull or the mast or both however. Do you know where I might find a diagram of the keel, including trunk and pendant. I have already purchased cable to replace the old one which is still in place, just not attached at the keel. I assume there is some kind of pin running through the keel that it pivots on. How is that pin attached to the hull? What are the chances of me being able to get under the boat with scuba gear and freeing the keel? I of course would have straps in place to catch it so it does not fall and break my head or the hull. I am not saying that I wont take it out of the water, but if there is anyway I can get the keel down without taking out, that is definately ideal. Mostly I just want to sail her this summer then worry about more permanent solutions down the road.

Thanks again,

Nick

 

[BobM]

I suggest you run a search on "stuck keel"" and spend some time reading.

I looked at some and diving seems like your best bet. Try to insert an steel object about 1/8 thick to see if you can't free it up. Be careful as it is heavy and if it comes down in a hurry it could hurt! An old wood cutting saw might be just the ticket if you have growth holding the keel in.

If you do careen the boat I strongly suggest you put something soft under it, like some old mattresses.

There are lots of good 6.8 sites like this one: http://www.tommysolomon.com/photoview.php?t=exciterdelivery

 

[Nick6.8Exciter]

Well again I say thanks to you Bob for taking the time to offer me advice on my problem. It is greatly appreciated. I loved the link you posted it had some great pictures and gave me some good ideas for improvements to my boat.

I am pleased to announce that the careening went off without a hitch. It took some time but we managed to free the keel and replace the cable. My wife and I were very excited when we took her out and noticed the marked improvement in performance, especially in steerage through tacks. Before we got the keel down we could not get through slow tacks at all and on all tacks we got seriously knocked so we would have to let the sails out and power up before come back to the wind. Now she tacks just as I would expect and we don't lose all our speed. What a joy.

Now we have a new issue to deal with. The pin that holds the top of the keel in place, around which the keel rotates has a tendancy to want to slip out to the starboard side. It has not come all the way out, but after a sail I need to swim under the boat and tap it back in as it might protrude an 1/8 of an inch or so. Does anyone have any recomendation on how this pin could be secured so we don't risk having it pop out while we are sailing which of course would be disasterous.

Thanks again,

Nick

 

["SevenSundays"]

Can the ends be peaned ever so slightly?

What is the pin made of? Hollow or solid?

 

[Nick6.8Exciter]

It is a solid stainless pin about an inch in diameter. Currently it is flush with the keel on the starboard side and counter sunk about a quarter inch on the port side. I think if I use a screw driver and hammer I can tap it in so that it is sunk in about 1/8 inch on each side.

I was thinking of putting a u shaped stainless washer that could be squeezed and put into the hole on either side. Then when released it would expand and lock inside the hole. I am not sure if that would work or if I can find such an item.

Another possibility I was thinking was some kind of puddy that would harden. Just fill the hole on either side with the puddy or resin.

I was hoping that maybe someone else had already solved this issue and had a better idea perhaps.

 

[BobM]

The make JB Weld, the boaters best friend, that you can apply under water. I suggest you mix it and apply it to something you can press on, like a piece of wax paper or plastic sheet, then you can dive and put it in place.

 

[Nick6.8Exciter]

I ended up buying some Marine PC underwater epoxy at the hardware store for under 8 bucks. It worked great. I filled the hole on either side of the trunk and smoothed it out with a puddy knife. It only took a couple hours to set up. I can raise and lower the centerboard without any problem. I have not taken her out for a sail yet but I plan to do so tomorrow morning. I will let you know if the epoxy does not hold but I suspect it will.

 

[BobM]

Great! What was holding the keel up and how did you get it loose?

 

[Nick6.8Exciter]

It was being held up by a combination of rust and mud and biology. Once we got everything cleaned out using a hand saw mostly, I was able to jiggle the centerboard side to side with a tire iron. After a little jiggeling the centboard dropped down easily. Since we had the boat careened and the keel was just shy of a 90 degree angle with the beach, when it came down it came down slowly and smoothly with no danger of hitting anyone. I doubt very much that the cast iron board is anywhere close to 500 lbs as was suggested by my research. It's hard to guess what it weighs but I doubt it is more than 200. It is pretty small. The epoxy solution for keeping the pin in place has worked very well. The boat sails very well now that I have the board down. I am very pleased with the results.

 

[BobM]

Wikipedia says about 450lbs per cubic foot. So if your keel is 4.5 feet down, lets estimate 4 feet for the keel, as it extends into the hull a ways. I estimated the keel is about a foot wide (extrapolated from a drawing) therefore the weight is about 150 lbs for every inch of thickness. So if it is three inches thick, on average, it is ~450 lbs.

 

[Ed Ramsey]

Hi Nick, Welcome to 6.8 ownership! I've got two of them, and my dad and brother each have one. They're great boats!

Your "swing keel" is actually a cast iron centerboard that weighs around 75 - 100 lbs. The fixed keel has 1100 lbs of lead inside it.

I'm glad to hear you were able to free it up. My brother's 6.8 had the same problem, and we freed it up using a homemade cradle, some hydrochloric acid, penetrating oil and a lot of work.

 

[Nick6.8Exciter]

75-100 sounds much more accurate. It is really pretty small and I am able to lift it.

Thanks for the information.

I am so glad to have it freed now. The difference in steerage is amazing.