In the post for Hunter 38 Blue Water Experience there is some dissension as to the usefullness of running backs. I have been considering them on our boat and would appreciate comments pro and con. Thanks in advance, Dan Arsenault Serendiptiy Too
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Running Backs?
Dan, when I ordered the equipment thru Hunter for a removable inner forestay for my 40.5, I asked if there was any need to have runners. They said that I would not need them. I spoke to Eddie Breedon. Perhaps you might give him a call. Ron
Dan, when I ordered the equipment thru Hunter for a removable inner forestay for my 40.5, I asked if there was any need to have runners. They said that I would not need them. I spoke to Eddie Breedon. Perhaps you might give him a call. Ron
pros and cons
PROS: -runners give an expert sail trimmer another way to influence sail shape, especially in blustery conditions. -runners allow a lighter, more flexible mast to be installed, as is desirable on larger racing boats. they keep these flexy masts from "pumping" -assigning someone to adjust the runners on each tack is a great way to break in new crew on a racing boat. CONS: - a few weeks ago, in the Louis Vitton Cup (Challenger series for the Americas Cup), the Nippon team blew apart a $300,000 carbon-fibre mast because the runner tail slipped from its cleat. -during a previous Americas Cup, helmsman Bill Koch was knocked cold by the block on a lazy runner. (You have to release the leward runner during each tack, so they tend to flop around in choppy seas, and can really give the cockpit crew a whack. I've personally had this happen numerous times on racing boats I've crewed, back in younger days. Many riggers attempt to correct this by installing bungies on a long two-to-one purchase that attach the runners to the fixed backstay, but this provides only a partial solution because then the bungies are in the helm's way.) -runners require an additional task each time the sail is tacked, which makes them undesirable (IMHO) on a short-handed cruising boat. To be done absolutely correctly, this means that three people are needed for each tack: a helmsperson, a forsail release/trimmer, and a runner guy. On most boats, an additional set of winches is required, as well as some pretty hefty turning blocks that will need to be installed all the way aft on the deck. -runners will interfere with a traveller arch, making their use all but impossible on most of the new aft-cockpit hunters. Center-cockpit boats, such as the 420 or 450, could probably accomodate them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Although running backstays were a given on most race boats built in the 80's, many of the newer one-design boats are eliminating them since the hassle is so much greater than the payoff. Some fraction-rigged classes even advertise, these days, that in addition to not employing overlapping headsails they do not require/allow runners. Boats with super-huge masts (I'm talking here about rigs upwards of three spreaders), even cruising boats, tend to continue to need them. The larger a mast, the more it tends to want to pump (assuming here that we're talking about shrouded masts rather than free-standing masts such as on the old Vision series). NOTE: An alternate solution to runners on boats in the 40'+ range is to use a "double-diamond" B&R rig, such as Hunter pioneered. As we have discovered on a recent post in this forum, such rigs need to be properly tuned to eliminate pumping, even on a mast as beefy as a Seldon furling mast. Not all B&R rigs, however, use the double-diamond configuration.
PROS: -runners give an expert sail trimmer another way to influence sail shape, especially in blustery conditions. -runners allow a lighter, more flexible mast to be installed, as is desirable on larger racing boats. they keep these flexy masts from "pumping" -assigning someone to adjust the runners on each tack is a great way to break in new crew on a racing boat. CONS: - a few weeks ago, in the Louis Vitton Cup (Challenger series for the Americas Cup), the Nippon team blew apart a $300,000 carbon-fibre mast because the runner tail slipped from its cleat. -during a previous Americas Cup, helmsman Bill Koch was knocked cold by the block on a lazy runner. (You have to release the leward runner during each tack, so they tend to flop around in choppy seas, and can really give the cockpit crew a whack. I've personally had this happen numerous times on racing boats I've crewed, back in younger days. Many riggers attempt to correct this by installing bungies on a long two-to-one purchase that attach the runners to the fixed backstay, but this provides only a partial solution because then the bungies are in the helm's way.) -runners require an additional task each time the sail is tacked, which makes them undesirable (IMHO) on a short-handed cruising boat. To be done absolutely correctly, this means that three people are needed for each tack: a helmsperson, a forsail release/trimmer, and a runner guy. On most boats, an additional set of winches is required, as well as some pretty hefty turning blocks that will need to be installed all the way aft on the deck. -runners will interfere with a traveller arch, making their use all but impossible on most of the new aft-cockpit hunters. Center-cockpit boats, such as the 420 or 450, could probably accomodate them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Although running backstays were a given on most race boats built in the 80's, many of the newer one-design boats are eliminating them since the hassle is so much greater than the payoff. Some fraction-rigged classes even advertise, these days, that in addition to not employing overlapping headsails they do not require/allow runners. Boats with super-huge masts (I'm talking here about rigs upwards of three spreaders), even cruising boats, tend to continue to need them. The larger a mast, the more it tends to want to pump (assuming here that we're talking about shrouded masts rather than free-standing masts such as on the old Vision series). NOTE: An alternate solution to runners on boats in the 40'+ range is to use a "double-diamond" B&R rig, such as Hunter pioneered. As we have discovered on a recent post in this forum, such rigs need to be properly tuned to eliminate pumping, even on a mast as beefy as a Seldon furling mast. Not all B&R rigs, however, use the double-diamond configuration.
Another option
Tagging onto what John Farnsworth just said, with a fractional rig, one thing that can help is to install a jack stay. A diamond spreader is installed facing forward just above the forestay and it has stays that go to the masthead and down the mast to probably the top spreader. This will help keep the mast straighter. The Hunter 35.5 Congressional(?) Cup boats had these installed.
Tagging onto what John Farnsworth just said, with a fractional rig, one thing that can help is to install a jack stay. A diamond spreader is installed facing forward just above the forestay and it has stays that go to the masthead and down the mast to probably the top spreader. This will help keep the mast straighter. The Hunter 35.5 Congressional(?) Cup boats had these installed.
I have them
I have running backs on my 1987 HUnter Legend 37. It sure does help tighten the forestay, and we do point higher than other Hunter 37's or 37.5's. Yes it is additional work, but the results are worth it to the crew. Tim Gabrielse BLAZE
I have running backs on my 1987 HUnter Legend 37. It sure does help tighten the forestay, and we do point higher than other Hunter 37's or 37.5's. Yes it is additional work, but the results are worth it to the crew. Tim Gabrielse BLAZE
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