Rules of the road ignored....

[Maine Sail]

I'm posting this as a service to the many fisherman who ply the waters of the US and who are constantly and rarely given the stand on status the USCG affords them by sailors. I witnessed this situation three times in two weeks where a sailboat, with plenty of depth yet thinking they had stand on status, would not alter course for a lobster boat hauling traps. Please let's all try and be courteous and obey the rules of the road.Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of: 1. a vessel not under command; 2. a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver; 3. a vessel engaged in fishing; 4. a sailing vessel.(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of: 1. a vessel not under command; 2. a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver; 3. a vessel engaged in fishing.(c) A vessel engaged in fishing when underway shall, so far as possible, keep out of the way of: 1. a vessel not under command; 2. a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver.

 

[maccauley123]

Good Reminder

Thanks Maine Sail, good reminder to everyone. The basic rule I like to follow is if the boat is on the water for work then I stay the heck out of their way, I'm only there for pleasure.

 

[Ross]

I give way for ALL working people

whether they be on the water or on the road or on foot. They are trying to make a living and I have time to be polite.

 

[Tim R.]

Give way

I try to give way to most all boats except when racing and will only stand on to boats involved in the racing. There are too many people out there that simply do not know the proper rules. Mostly yahoos with cigarette boats but sometimes sailors. I think for the most part, sailors are better educated(boat wise) than power boaters. I would support mandatory boater safety classes(flame suit on).BTW Rodd, you up for racing Wed. night? Last week was a blast. That was the most people I have ever had aboard while racing.Tim R.

 

[Maine Sail]

I've got..

Tim,I have a meeting on Wednesday that may not get out until after 5:00. I'd then have a 40 minute drive. I plan on tossing a change of clothes in the car so I can go directly to the boat if the meeting gets out in time for me to make it. Don't count on me this week but it is high on the priority list!!

 

[Landsend]

You need to post this on a power boaters site also

if there is one...because they seem to think they own the road.

 

[Jim Seamans]

Definition of vessel fishing?

I would assume you are talking about a commercial fishing boat and not the weekend fisherman.Down here we get the 15-30ft boat with fisherman who cut back and forth trolling. These guys think you should stay out of their way and will turn right in front of you about 200 yards or less with their lines hung out. In the last five years I've only had one fisherman call on the radio to ask about my course due to what he was dragging behind him and asked to parallel him at least 150ft away.Commercial fisherman/crabber/lobsterman I avoid as best as I can.JimS/V Java

 

[Paul Akers]

I Agree!!!

I've sailed in Maine and respect for both fishermen (lobsterers) by sailors and sailors by fishermen is commendable. You will always be able to count on them if you have a problem. Give 'em a break. They know the rules as well as everyone (even better)!

 

[JungleJetJock]

My problem

Around here pleasure fishers like to sit and fish right in the pass between lakes. I keep my boat on what was the original lake and they built a larger dam further down stream, blasted a hole in the old dam, and connected them. The pass between lakes is fairly narrow and gets pretty shallow at the sides (except now because the whole lake is flooded). Fishermen like to sit right in the middle of that pass. Sailboats, being restricted in thier ability to maneuver due to draft through the cut, should have right away through there but the fishermen alway sit there and clog it up. In general I have found it best to take the same attitude with motor boaters as I do on my motorcycle. Pretend they don't know you exist and they don't know what the hell they are doing.

 

[Maine Sail]

Jim a vessel engaged in fishing..

Jim,As far as I know the USCG makes no distinction between commercial and pleasure fishing. If you know where that is in the Col Regs please point it out to me. They just say "a vessel engaged in fishing" and not a "commercial vessel engaged in fishing". Here is their actual definition of a vessel engaged in fishing:Quote from Col Regs: "The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict maneuverability."So if a recreational boat is fishing with down riggers, or drifting & bottom fishing, with the motor idling, I'd say they still have the right of way regardless of the fact that they're recreational because down riggers or bottom lines certainly restrict maneuverability. They do make clear that trolling does not constitute "stand on" unless it would restrict the maneuverability of the vessel.As for "right of way" here's what the USCG has to say about it:Quote from the Col Regs on "Right of Way":"The International Navigation Rules do not confer upon any vessel the right of way however, certain vessels in sight of each other are responsible to keep out of the way of others. Usually, power-driven vessels are to keep out of the way of a vessel not under command or restricted in her ability to maneuver, sailing vessels or a vessel engaged in fishing. However, some exceptions exist when they themselves are not in command or restricted in her ability to maneuver (Rule 18), overtaking another vessel (Rule 13), are navigating a narrow channel or fairway (Rule 9), and other less explicit circumstances.Navigation Rules should be regarded as a code of conduct and not a bill of rights. They do not bestow rights or privileges, but impose the duty to either give-way or stand-on, dependent on the circumstances. What is important is not so much what things are, i.e. sailing vessel, operational, etc., but how to avoid collisions, e.g. although under sail yet able to be propelled by machinery, obtaining an early warning by radar, etc. Understand, the Rules are in place to prevent collisions not to define nautical terms or to be subjected to strict interpretation."

 

[Brian D]

I wonder when those...

particular rules were written, and where the author was located during the writing of the rules. Wonder if there was any influence during the writing of the rules as to what kind of boating was prevalent at the time? It could have been that during the establishment of the rules, commercial fishing vessels were the norm and recreational fishermen were basically confined to lakes and streams.Would we say that it is time to revisit the rules and have them be more specific in nature?

 

[Bavaria 38E Owner]

Of course, you have to know...

the status of a vessel underway. I don't know any sailors, "yachtsman", that always follow the rules even if they know them. For example, if you're motor sailing during daylight you should be displaying a "dayshape" (upside-down triangle) to tell other vessels that you're not in the status of a stand-on sailboat. I don't think I've ever seen this done. Fishing boats not trawling should also have dayshapes up indicating that they're fishing and on which side of the vessel the gear is deployed. Do they? At anchor outside a CG-desginated anchorage, you need to hoist a black anchor ball. I think I've seen only one on a sailboat in years of anchoring.BEO

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

The problem with most sailors is.....

they are under the misconception that they have a right of way in most conditions. I have had idiots tell me that a freighter in open water has to yield to a sailboat. Its been a long time since I been a boat capt., but somewhere in the book with the rules of the road there was a statement to the effect that 'smaller vessels shall stay clear of larger vessels.' Given this, the only thing a sailboat has a right of way over is a power boat of equal or smaller size under normal conditions. A sailboat is also not considered a vessel with restricted ability to maneuver. such as a seismic survey boat pulling miles of caable, tow boats pulling barges, etc. Also in the general interpretation, pleasure fishing is considered under the "but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict maneuverability." The term fishing vessel is really targeted at commercial vessels such as shrimp boats, long lines boats and not the run of the mill fishing charter boats.Keep in mind, that the COLREGS were set up for COLlision REGulations which is more or less asking commercial vessels to be reasonable. They really were not set up for private interests, although they include the private sector. When it comes to pleasure fishing, you just have to be reasonable.

 

[Ctskip]

With more and more people

along the shorelines and in the recreational boating scene, there has been no mention of rules when they buy boats. People have the money ,they buy the boat, and get to the water as fast as they can. Maybe rule books should be given away with every boat sale. I really don't like the idea of licensing, but I can see no other way out of this mess. Like motorcycles. The quantity and price comes down to make these vessels more within the reach of the average person. And what happens? Accident rates go up. Lack of formal training. There has to be some sort of formal training. I know when I started boating I was 14 (my own boat) and my folks did a power squadron course with me as soon as I could see over the fly bridge windshield of their Chris. I learned a lot. Now a days we have 20yo something guys with money to throw away, buying boats and not knowing their arse from a hole in the ground, going out and doing these "runs" killing people. Here in Ok, we just had a guy, custom build a cigarette boat, (big bucks) just to do poker runs across America. Nice life if you can get it. I asked him about his motors and the word "port" came up and he said he tailored it. Thankfully, the lake I'm on is to small for his boat. I feel blessed. There's but another reason I like Oklahoma. Although I long for the open water and far away places. The serenity of sailing is (for me) whats it's all about. We want to be protected ,but we don't like the rules. And most don't know they even exist. It's a shame its gotten this far. How much do we care? Enough to do something about it? Whats the answer? Keep it up, Ctskip

 

[MoonSailer]

Fishing in Channels

Comming up the Tenn-Tom waterway I was surprised by the number of small fishing boats fishing around locks!!!!! When locking through Wilson Dam on the Tennessee river I had to thread my sailboat through about a dozen small fishing boats with lines in the water. Some glared at me!!!! Like I was intruding into their space by motoring up a navigation channel. Same thing with lobster and crab traps..they put the things everywhere lining channels so that it is very difficult to dodge all of them. Fishermen need a little common sense as to where to fish. Preventing boats from traveling channels should be against the rules.

 

[Bavaria 38E Owner]

The reality is...

you cannot license people for common sense and curteousy by taking a course on boating. A meaningful license would require that people have sea (or lake) experience in addition to a written examination or course completion to begin boating. Honestly, since I've owned both kinds of boats, I can say the waterworld looks much different from a powerboat than from a sailboat, especially on a lake or in protected waters (ICW) where the powerboats can go fast. Powerboats have to hit 10 kt or so just to get going on plane. It's so easy to push the throttle to get to 20 or 25 and no evident reason not to. It all looks and feels so simple compared to sailboats with their complicated rigging, low horsepowers, and deep drafts. Just point the bow in the direction you want to go, push the throttle, and try not to hit anything. You'll never get most of these people to think about rules of the road except to go around some stodgy sailboat lumbering along, or anything else moving slower, or to look at a chart if there is even one aboard b/c you'd have to slow down and maybe even stop.BEO

 

[sailortonyb Allied Mis]

Moonsailor...it is !

Somewhere in the rules, it is illegal to impede the flow of a channel. Most commercial fisherman, at least in the La. and Ms. area choose to ignore that rule. When I was in Biloxi, Ms. I always had to get out of the way of shrimp boats coming in or out of the channel with their outriggers down. Same when I was a Crew Boat Capt. out of La.

 

[frmreilly]

Blockading the Channel

There are times when respect for fishermen would mean people could not enter or leave a harbor. Likewise, fishing in the middle of a narrow channel and expecting people to avoid your lines is pretty stupid.Placing lobster traps with pooly marked bouys or clorox bottles is also pretty stupid.